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Location: UK | On receipt of my New Mill, me being me, just had to do summat to it and take it to bits :rolleyes:
I removed the lower hard shim from under the sadle to lower the action, but put back the wedge shim, the lower shim was a nice hard bakelite type of material i think, the wedge shim was a naffy type of soft bendy plastic.
It occurred to me, that soft plastic is not the best of vibration transmitters! especially between the saddle and that nice CVT top, it seems common sense that this is a weak link in the sound transmission train,am i right?
If so, what material would be best to make a new wedge out of, to get nicer tone, and probably more sustain?
I was thinking along the lines of a nice hardwood, or a aluminum, what do ya reckon? |
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Location: NJ | thin piece of brass? |
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Location: UK | Doh! never thought of brass, better put some time in on my milling machine :D
That material should do the trick. |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | The only drawback is the weight. You'll want to keep it light as possible. They aren't that thick, .030 as I recall, that shouldn't absorb that much sound. A harder plastic, we used to use a phenolic shim, would work.
On this subject, I always felt that the A/E versions of the guitars didn't sound as good acoustically as the straight Ac versions. A good bluegrass player from North Carolina, Debanjo Rheinhardt, requested a saddle made from bone. We machined some and it really improved the sound, both ac and ec. Of course the saddles were $100 each!(machined to fit the pickup) Quality always costs, don't it? |
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Location: puerto vallarta, mexico | i agree about straight acoustic sounding better unplugged. touch a vibrating object and it wont vibrate as long. same as palm muting the strings which i like to do right at the bridge. so all of the electronics inside have to have an effect. they also interfere with the sound reflection of the bowl.
i am going to try the bone idea, bill. i know the local butcher shop is going to have fun with this one-------50 grams of bone please sliced thin-----hold the marrow. so what do you think bill---pork, beef or marlin?
[ April 11, 2002: Message edited by: musicamex ] |
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Location: nyc area | Hey cwk.... how is debanjo? has he been out on tour? I gotta get me one of those saddles! |
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Location: puerto vallarta, mexico | am i right in thinking that a single shim of the right thickness would be better than multiple shims? i'd like to raise the action on one of my big o's about .010, as one of the micarta shims isn't quite enough for energetic riffs and .030 is more than i need. how about bone for that too? the local butchers could make me lots of various thicknesses in a few minutes on the meat saw. or am i spinning my wheels and a piece of brass shimstock .040 would be just as good? i have brass stainless and high carbon steel shimstock as well as sheet aluminum and ss in .040. any reccommendations? |
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Location: NJ | I'd be a little reticent about using bone fresh from a butcher (and no Russs, NOT because I'm a vegetarian! - I do eat fish, by the way) because I would assume that "fresh" bone will still have a degree of moisture content, and I would think that you may or may not have to contend with a "shrinkage factor" (and no Russ, that's NOT from coming out of the ocean on a chilly evening!).
You might want to check with some of the locals for some old whalebone. Nice, old, dense, dry, stable. I've seen some ads for luthier suppliers that sell fossilized walrus tusk as a replacement for ivory.
For that matter: might there be an old derilict hulk of a piano somewhere that wouldn't matter if it lost a couple more keys?
"....Make your Ovation sound like a Steinway!..."
I had been having some problems breaking strings at gigs (predominantly D's and G's, with the occasional A). The breaks consistently seemed to happen at the saddle. The saddle/pickups are original (26 yrs old) and heavily "grooved" (especially on those three string positions) so I suspected that MAYBE the strings were getting "pinched" in the grooves and causing the breaks. Switching from light to medium gauge strings alleviated the problem A LITTLE, but it still happened ( I eventually switched back).
I must confess that I DO have a somewhat aggressive, "percussive" strumming style (especially with my band - I make Pete Townshend look like the guy on the stairway in "Animal House") and that's probably a MAJOR factor in my problem, but I was researching "options".
I ended up going to a local model/hobby shop and buying a length of this very small brass "angle" material that they use for building archetectural models (and I would assume mini railway stuff).
I cut off six 7/16" lengths and placed them like little "caps" on the "peaks" of the pickups ( to compensate for them heightwise, I removed a shim).
Since it was a "trial" endeavour (and I didn't want to contend w/glue), I just let the tension of the strings hold 'em down in place.
Worked pretty good, and added a nice little bright "ring" to the sound!
I think I'm still gonna opt for replacing the saddle though.
Al: dig me one out (and the gold tuners) for Sunday, would'ya? |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | Whatever the thickness of the shim the action will move half of that. 1/32 at the saddle changes it 1/64 at the 12th. The important thing is that it is flat so you have good contact all the way.
How about petrified antler?
In any case Cliff, service can get you a new delrin saddle, just pop the old one off and the new on. Should help with breaking the strangs. |
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Location: UK | I think seasoned bone maybe the best material, im sure years back a friend of mine had an unknown guitar with a bone nut and saddle, sounded good.
Im a big beleiver in natural materials give better sounds( theres me with a CVT top:rolleys :)
Brass should be ok too,but will give a different tone,as will any other different material that is used.
I will experiment with a few different materials i think, and see what comes out, i also dont like the idea of lots of shims in there, so going to be lots of work making diffent thickness wedge shims to experiment with. |
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Location: UK | Just made one out of Silver Birch (offcut from my floor)
Sounds better than with the plastic one,definate improvement, just a better sound all round,cleaner and sharper tone, its sort of livened it up a bit, i then changed strings, and its a totally different guitar now, for the better. |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | A short cut is what I used to do sometimes, glue the two, or three, shims together. That way there's only one thing between the saddle(pickup) and the top. |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | Gary, you nailed it. Why didn't any of the rest of us think of wood???? |
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Location: UK | Cant see the wood for the trees? :p |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | Actually carbonium grafito would work well too |
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| Al De meola I noticed uses Rosewood shims under his Piezo. |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | Brazilian, Indian or South Jersey Rosewood? |
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| Smart alec It looked like Brazilia but not sure. Doesnt matter I replaced then with plastic. hehee |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | OH! New Hartford Rosewood. Now I understand! |
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Saddles and tones
