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Location: SoCal | Regarding the solid body electrics, the Viper scale is 25 1/2" and everything else from that time is 24 3/4". Does anybody know why? cwk2, any thoughts?
I might put a preacher deluxe neck on my viper. Does the bridge have to be adjusted a full 3/4"? Why in the back of my mind am I thinking it only needs to be adjusted half that, 3/8"?
Anybody? Somebody's gotta be more knowledgeable than me.
Paul |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | Viper (tele wannabe) Fender scale
Preacheur and the rest, Gibson scale.
I had heard that the necks were interchangable. Take the two necks, line up the 24th fret, measure the difference at the nut. See if it's 3/4. If it is they should be interchangable. Make sure there's room in the neck cavity, I think the Prach neck might be wider?? |
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Location: NJ | I think there is plenty of throw on that bridge to intonate either neck |
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Location: Scotland | You cannot put a neck designed for a 24.75 inch scale on a guitar with a 25.5 scale, regardless of how much throw there is on the bridge (well you could, but it would never play in tune) Fret positions are worked out using a formula where the postion of the first fret is calculated by dividing the total scale length by 17.817 (or thereabouts) The second fret is the remaining scale length divided by 17.817 and so on. The fret spacings for a Preacher are not compatible with the Viper scale length.
Paul
[ April 12, 2002: Message edited by: Paul Templeman ] |
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Location: NJ | but isn't that formula based on where the bridge is place? the distance to the nut? you lost me here |
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Location: Scotland | The formula divides the distance from bridge to nut (scale length) by 17.8, which determines the location of the first fret. The second fret postion is the remaining scale length (i.e. total scale minus the first fret) divided by 17.8, and so on. The bridge position is determined by the total scale length, there's no formula involved. If it's a 24.75 scale, then the bridge is placed so the string break-point is 24.75 inches from the nut. The saddle(or saddles) will then need to be compensated for string gauge & action. As the guitars in question have different scale lengths, then they have different fret-spacings. To see what I mean measure the distance from the nut to first fret on a Viper, then on a Preacher. There's not a lot of difference but there's enough to make them totally incompatible.
Paul |
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Location: NJ | Paul I think the position of the bridge would compensate.
for example old danelectros to make a 6 string bass all they did was move the bridge same neck.
I may be all wet here but I understand how differeent necks are spaced differently but ultimately I still think it is where you place the bridge. I could be wrong....well this once anyway....
[ April 12, 2002: Message edited by: alpep ] |
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Location: Scotland | Let's have some more input on this. I assure you, that these necks are not interchangable, unless you need a slide guitar or enjoy guitars that will not play in tune. To quote Scotty, "You cannot change the laws of physics, Captain"
Check out
http://www.cybozone.com/luthier/instruments/fretscale.html
Paul |
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Location: SoCal | Or to quote Captian K., talking to Scotty, "Young minds, fresh ideas. Be tolerent."
I've seen this swap done using a Deacon 12 neck on a Viper and have been told by the player that the intonaton can be adjusted perfectly. Glen Campbell's 2 Bluebirds, built in the mid 70's had a Viper shaped body and Deacon necks. I know for a fact, he wouldn't have played them unless they were spot on.
If you look at Mile's collection, he has a Viper with a Deacon 12 neck.
I agree. I'd like to see more posts. This is an interesting subject. |
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Location: Scotland | Of course it's more than probable that as the Bluebirds were essentially custom-built non-production instruments, that the necks were of the correct scale length with Deacon inlays, or the bridge position on the Viper bodies were modified to accomodate the shorter scale. Bill or someone at New Hartford may know. I seem to recall that the 12-string Viper you referred to had a custom built body, this would allow the builder to achieve the correct bridge position for the scale length. As long as you can get the 12th fret exactly half-way between the nut & bridge it will work, but on a guitar with the bridge already in a fixed position, there will be some serious compromises.
Paul |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | Jim Rickard told me at one time that the necks were interchangable. I believed him but never tried it. The bluebirds have foam (as in UK2) bodies and used the same skeleton. We just put the preecher necks on them. As I think about it the first guitar out of that mould was built into a viper, nice 2tone s/b and the viper maple neck. Someone ask Kim Keller this weekend to sort it all out for us, please. |
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Location: Scotland | That makes sense, the UK11 skeleton would make the Bluebirds suitable for a Preacher/Deacon neck as the UK11 has a 24.75 scale.
A few years ago a friend of mine bought a bunch of Jap Fender parts cheap, at a bankruptcy auction. He built a really cool looking thing with a Tele body & a Jazzmaster neck but couldn't figure out why it wouldn't play in tune.
Having looked carefully at both my Viper & Preacher I concede that swapping the necks may be possible, but not as easy as it may seem. I don't think there's enough travel on the saddles (especially on the later Shaller bridge)to intonate the lower strings correctly, plus the neck will need to be seated in such a place to put the 12th fret exactly midway in the scale. I might just crack the necks off my guitars, swap'em & see what happens. If it works I'll happily eat dog doo. I'll let you know where to send it. I prefer the white crumbly type.
Paul
[ April 12, 2002: Message edited by: Paul Templeman ] |
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| b I love the new Vipers when they are built a certain way |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | And what way would that be??
We're talking old vipers here. Luther, How about you take a walk down to engineering on Monday and check this out for us. See if it's possible with out too much adjustment ot the saddles.
I heard Wheldon was singing knockin on heavens door. Glad to hear he's still around. |
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Location: SoCal | Luthier: If you could check at work, I'd appreciate it. Is there anyway you can see if there is an old Deacon neck lying around? I'm about to buy a Preacher Deluxe neck from Miles, but I'd prefer the Deacon neck (reminds me of Glen Campbell's Bluebird ... hey, I'm a fan).
Thanks
Paul |
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| I saw one with no spackle on the back.. The former guitar player from fates warning. his Viper had a pearly gate humbucker on it.
Wonder ... Arch top Viper. eehh |
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Viper neck vs. the world
