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Posts: 8
Location: Downstate New York | Greetings, all. I hope I won't step on too many toes by asking my "stupid" question here. I have never played guitar before, and I just got an Ovation Celebrity to learn on. So right there, I know Ive lost some of you, like "that cheap thing isn't really an Ovation at all."
So here's my question -- How the *&$#% do you hold a bowl-back guitar when you're sitting down? Standing up with a strap I get, but due to back and neck problems, I can't stand all that long and need to play sitting down. I've decided that it's impossible to hold it stable without a strap. True?
I've tried hooking the strap both to the body "button" beside the neck and to the head (not at the same time-I'm not quite that dumb). The body way seems to hold it in a better position, but tends to hurt my neck (darn spine). Any advice?
I hope I'm not being too rude with my non-collecting, pre-beginner level problems. (Please don't flame me, pleads the newbie.)
sgfantod |
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Posts: 196
Location: Shelton, Washington, USA | no flames here.... last time I checked the Celebs had just as many strings and frets as an Adamas... guitars is guitars. Welcome to our world.... and don't fret the newbie stuff.... we were all newbies with our first guitar at some point. On to your question..... when you sit, I'm gonna guess that you put the guitar on your right leg (most of us do).... try using a stool with a rung that allows you to hold your right leg a little higher than what your currently do. Or if you are not using a stool.... try using a lower chair (also resulting in your right leg being higher relative to your body... Another option might be to adjust your strap to that when sitting the guitar just touches your leg...
Again.... welcome to our world.... Keep a song in your heart.... and an Ovation in your hands! :D |
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Posts: 15654
Location: SoCal | I've played Ovations almost thirty years, and almost always keep a strap on the guitar. I'm to a point, even when I'm sitting that it just feels natural.
The only other solutions are, as noted above, to get your right leg a little higher, or to tuck the bottom edge of the guitar (on your leg) in tighter to your body. But the strap works best. |
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February 2002
Posts: 613
Location: Zion, Illinois | The problem I'm having is that as I get older, I'm starting to resemble my Ovation, if ya know what I mean. That makes it even harding to hold, the round back fighting the round front. Guess I'll have to get out and jog a bit to win the battle. :rolleyes:
One question I have is this, on all my Ovations the rubber knee pad is missing. Does anyone have any suggestions for a replacement. I've considered some sort of felt or maybe self sticking velcro.
Any ideas?
Bradley
[ April 11, 2002: Message edited by: Bradley ] |
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Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | Brad:
You might wanna try a bicyle shop and get a piece of vulcanized tire (or "tyre" for the UK'ers) patch material. It's even got a sticky side (which might need some reinforcement).
I've also noticed these things on my girlfriend's dresser: They go inside of women's shoes at the very back by the heel. They're designed to keep a woman's foot from "slipping" in and out while she's walking. They're kinda "crescent moon" shaped and they're made out of spongey, rubbery, non-slip material and are adhesive backed. The only problem is the color: kinda like a Band-Aid. |
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Posts: 613
Location: Zion, Illinois | I've also notices some self-adhesive backed things on my wife's dresser too, but I don't think they go into her shoes. :D
Bradley |
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Posts: 15654
Location: SoCal | Danger Will Robinson, Danger! Stay away from those whatever they are, Bradley!
Charlie Byrd, one of the first Ovation players (classical guitar) had this same problem. Ovation solved it by grinding up some walnut shells and gluing them onto his guitar. Later (true story) he discoverd that all his pants were worn in the exact spot where the guitar rested on his leg. |
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Posts: 7211
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | I don't know when I started doing this, but I place acoustics on my LEFT knee when I play. I am righ-handed and all... I just find placing it on my left knee gives it more support and places the instrument in front of me. All nice and balanced. The bottom or heel of the bowl touches the insade of my right leg. I actually have a harder time playing standing up with an acoustic round-back... so I don't if I can help it. |
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Location: Shelton, Washington, USA | ahhhhhhhhhhh..... nuts..... |
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Location: puerto vallarta, mexico | three suggestions:
1) i play on stage on a stool with a strap and let the round bowl slide off to the right a bit (it happens pretty naturally these days) my left hand is in a much more comfortable position that way even though i look lazy.
2)they sell rolls of non slip rubberized netting in rv stores and wal-mart even carries it. we used it for years on our boats as place mats and between and under stuff in the lockers. a small piece on your leg will stop your ovation from sliding. i prefer the strap, but if you have a bad back this might be better for practice.
3) my favorite is playing from a hammock with a cool glass of my favorite beverage sweating away next to me. good for the back, better for the head, and the guitar stays put even when you sing yourself to sleep. "ay ay ay ay, canta, no llores" |
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Posts: 14127
Location: 6 String Ranch | The nonskid on the US guitars is made from ground up walnut shells and mixed with bowl paint and sprayed on. Has been for years. It will tear the hell out of polyester pants SO>>>> don't wear a polyester leisure suit when you play.
The slide is something you just get used to and it goes away. One endorsee, I forget who, always complained about the slide and then there was a model he really liked, probably an adamas, and he wanted it, and all of a sudden it didn't slip anymore. Funny how that works. |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | Mr. O.
The left knee?? Pretty radical.
Is that because you're one of those closet tutt-butt classical wannabees? |
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Posts: 7211
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Originally posted by cwk2:
Mr. O.
The left knee?? Pretty radical.
Is that because you're one of those closet tutt-butt classical wannabees?
Now that's funny... I did take classical for a year or so when I was a kid, but I think I started holding it like that later in life. Just seems to work for me. |
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Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | I have never had that problem, from being a skinny kid to a (slightly) fatter much older kid, I've always been able to sit comfortably with any bowl depth without it slipping of my knee.
Paul |
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Posts: 14127
Location: 6 String Ranch | Miles,
I tried this left knee business yesterday and it didn't work. My left hand was too far away from my brain. Oh well....... |
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March 2002
Posts: 389
Location: RI. That small State out East | They even sell a "folding peddle" looking thing that looks like the gas peddle in your car so you can rest your foot on. My 16yr. old came home with one last week. It took me 2 min. to figure it out... That's all it does. Lift you foot up about 5 inches and rest it on a peddle.
I can see all of you shaking your heads.
Woz |
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Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | Or...do it the cheap way:
Dig into the BACK of your closet and dig out just ONE of your old "Stayin' Alive" disco platform shoes (c'mon, you KNOW yo've got 'em!!). |
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Posts: 48
Location: CT | I'm with moodpyi. I probably wear my guitar a bit higher than you do, but one of the benefits is that the guitar position needn't change at all when you sit. If you know how to play standing, play exactly the same way sitting - strap and all. Why learn and maintain two disparate techniques? |
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April 2002
Posts: 196
Location: Shelton, Washington, USA | I'm with you Darc. Some gigs I play standing, others sitting. But, I wear a strap all the time and my guitar is always in the same position relative to my body..... just seems easier. Like you say, just one method to maintain rather than two. |
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April 2002
Posts: 8
Location: Downstate New York | Thanks for the welcome. I guess I'm gun-shy because of my know-it-all brother. He's a good musician and loves to lecture us mere mortals. I'm not even telling him I bought a guitar--I have this picture in my head of him ranting at me about "plastic" instruments (him being an acoustic-only player).
I've been trying your suggestions. I actually kind of like the "classical" style, left-leg up position, which seems to work well for my left hand positioning, but it aggravates the hell out of my lower back. I think I'm going to wind up using some combination of right leg up (on an empty wooden cigar box--knew I'd find a use for it some day) and a strap. I found that I can slide the strap back a little, more over my upper back than on my shoulders and neck, and that helps my comfort level. I'm also considering some non-slip addition like you're mentioning - sounds good. I'll try the "netting" on my knee first, rather than do anything to Old Bessie. (Yes, I've named her now, and I haven't got a clue why she's "Old". Who knows what weirdness lurks in the depths of my brain.)
If all else fails, I found out there's a kind of playing stand for guitars that actually holds it for you while you play, both standing and sitting versions, including special ones for Ovations. I'm not crazy about the idea, but if it ends up being the only way I can play, well, I'll just bite the bullet. Gee golly gosh, maybe my HMO will cover it as rehabilitation equipment! :D (It's been hard enough getting them to keep covering my physical therapy.)
Hmmmmm -- hammock, drink, gentle breeze -- now that's the best guitar method ever!! What say we call that the official Ovation playing position?
sgfantod |
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Joined:
April 2002
Posts: 8
Location: Downstate New York | Originally posted by darc:
I'm with moodpyi. I probably wear my guitar a bit higher than you do, but one of the benefits is that the guitar position needn't change at all when you sit. If you know how to play standing, play exactly the same way sitting - strap and all. Why learn and maintain two disparate techniques?
That sounds logical. I'll try that, too. Like you said, I'll need to shorten my strap, I think. I like the idea of one method, but I have to see how it goes with my back/neck. The difference in posture when I sit and when I stand may be a problem -- or maybe I just don't know how to sit properly! My physical therapists would probably say so. I'm telling them the guitar is therapy for my right hand and fingers (fortunately my left hand is fine).
--sgfantod |
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Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | When I play with the full band, I usually play standing up, but at acoustic (or solo gigs) I play with a tall stool. It helps to bring your own so that you dont have to adapt to whatever stool the venue may have to offer. The one I have is like a heavy chrome drafting stool with a padded seat and a "gas lift" feature to adjust height. I usually play "half sitting" - my ass is on the edge of the stool, my left foot on the stool's footrest, my right foot down on the floor with my guitar on a strap - pretty much a "standing" position, but most of my weight is pretty much off my feet/legs. The stool also has casters so that if I want to stand, I can just slide off and kick the stool back out of the way.
sgfantod: For practicing, you might want to also look into one of those funky, Swedish backless "ergonomically correct" work chairs that you kinda like "kneel" into. Again, you wear your guitar with the strap and for all intents your playing in the "standing" position. Your weight gets distributed to your ass and knees, you don't have to rest your guitar on anything, and your back/shoulders can go pretty much wherever you want. I used to use one for practice years ago and it worked great! The only drawback is you end up looking like a total DORK!! |
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Location: Downstate New York | Cliff -- I already look like a dork anyway, so I've got nothing to lose! I'll keep those ergonomic kneeler-thingies in mind. A little radical but it might do the trick. I've also considered a stool like you describe for other standing activities that get to my back after awhile, so I might go that way, too.
Not that I need an excuse to practice, but now I can always say I can't stop now, I gotta try another chair/stool/position/technique.
--SGfantod |
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Posts: 14127
Location: 6 String Ranch | You only look like a dork if you get caught doing it. Kinda like what a fat woman and a moped have in common.
In the end whatever works for you to be able to play is the answer |
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February 2002
Posts: 48
Location: CT | SGFantod, yes, you will probably have to shorten your strap, and I can appreciate where that might feel uncomfortable at first. But of course, if you sit and your legs lift the guitar into a different position irrespective of the strap, then the "one technique" premise is lost.
There are other benefits to wearing the guitar high, however, if you can past the "This looks like a bow-tie" stigma. The left arm relaxed, then bent naturally at the elbow will in fact bring the left hand quite high. Don't bring the body to the instrument (and wind up needing rehabilitation equipment as you mentioned), instead, bring the instrument to the body.
Good advice from Cliff about a stool, also. In general when you sit, it's a good idea to have your knees a bit lower than your hips. |
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Help! I Need Advice on Playing
