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 Elite Special v. Custom Legend
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| Forums Archive -> The Vault: 2002-2003 | Message format | |
E-Man |
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Joined: April 2002 Posts: 20 | Stupid question? Maybe. I'm trying to decide between a Custom Legend and Elite Special. I understand the cosmetic and component differences. Playability wise though, Elite Special holds it's own with richer sound and is equally easy to play. What are disadvantages to rosewood fretboard versus ebony. That's the only thing that scares me (unless there are other things that should). Also, anyone have an opinion on the veneer versus inlaid rosette on Custom Legends? Isn't the "raised" rosette from '98 and before just glued on? Thanks, E-Man | ||
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| elias |
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| Joined: February 2002 Posts: 119 Location: Philadelphia, PA 19107 | Hey E-man, well, I guess that the best thing to do is to play-test both of them and find out by yourself whch one you really like the best. Even if I told you that this or that sounds better, it wouldn't make any difference, unless you decide which one you like the best. On the other hand I guess you are refering to current models Elite Special, and Custom Legend. is that so? To be frank I do not like the current Ovation production. Shallow bowls, wooden tops of lower quality, cheap looking inlays and epaullettes, I don't know.....not my stuff. I am an old fahion guy, I like the older Ovations: the first generation Elites, model #1537, deep bowl non-cutaway, AAA top Sitka spruce, stereo electronics, beautiful epaulettes, a real wooden top Adamas with warmer woody sound, huuuuuuuge bass, fine trembles,powerful! Take a look at: http://mail.med.upenn.edu/~elias/1537.jpg and http://mail.med.upenn.edu/~elias/elite.jpg On the other hand the original custom legend introduced in 1974, model 1119 (acoustic) and 1619 (acoustic/electric stereo) a real princess! Deep bowl, hand picked sitka spruce, carved bridge and truss rod cover, lots of abalone apointments, the best round soundhole Ovation ever made. take a look: http://mail.med.upenn.edu/~elias/1119-4.jpg if you get a chance, try the older Ovations and you will understand what I mean. Not only glory, and looks, but also genuine sound! Bottom line you may like both of them equaly and want to have them both! [ April 27, 2002: Message edited by: elias ] | ||
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| E-Man |
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Joined: April 2002 Posts: 20 | Thanks elias. I know that vintage is always better (why is that?) but I like the new, thin models (guitars I mean... okay, the women too). What can you tell me about rosewood versus ebony fretboards. I'm afraid that the rosewood won't hold up as well. Also, what's the story on the rosette? Is the new inlaid design better? Thanks. | ||
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| alpep |
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Joined: December 2001 Posts: 10581 Location: NJ | Elias you are incorrect the elite is available also in mid depth bowl. elias says I also disagree with your generalization about top quality. I have a few 2001 collector's models that would really knock even you out. the inlays are smaller but no cheap the epaulettes are also ok I really wish if you bash the product that you give specific examples with pictures because these generalizations do not help anyone that is trying to choose a new instrument.fine you like the old ones well then talk about that with the knowledge and expetisse that you have. You did not really solve this guy's problem or answer his question. | ||
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| Paul Templeman |
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Joined: February 2002 Posts: 5750 Location: Scotland | "I know that vintage is always better" Try telling that to Paul Reed Smith. There's a lot of bollocks talked about vintage guitars. Todays guitars will be vintage sometime and a whole new generation will be saying how cool they are compared to the new crap. Yes, there is something special about a good instrument that's had 30,40 or more years of playing.(note the proviso "good" - a shitty guitar doesn't become great just because it's old) Buy a good new guitar & play the hell out of it, it'll soon start to vibe. Some people are paying crazy money for dreadful mid-70's Gibsons & Fenders because a dealer puts "vintage" on the price tag. I love vintage guitars, but I know that many contemporary manufacturers can do as good or better. The new Nationals are at least as good as the originals, much of Gibson's current Montana production is as good as the best of their "golden era" acoustics. A PRS Custom or MCCarty will leave most 50's LP's dead in the water, Ovation's current high-end USA guitars are superb. Buy your guitar with your ears & your hands, not a dodgy preconception that older always means better. Paul [ April 28, 2002: Message edited by: Paul Templeman ] | ||
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| Gary(Uk) |
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Joined: March 2002 Posts: 126 Location: UK | Hehe, I just got my Elite 2000 Ltd Russian from Al today,(BIGGG thanks AL:cool :) that Burr walnut top is just pure class! Mid depth bowl, and the sound just warms me to my bones :D No fancy inlays, just a no nonsense built guitar. | ||
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| E-Man |
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Joined: April 2002 Posts: 20 | This is all inrteresting dialogue, but my questions haven't been answered. Here's the situation. I have been shopping for a Custom Legend and trying to decide between a '98 and '02, both "brand new". Okay, I'd like a recommendation from you on this. Then, for the heck of it I try an Elite Special. I can see the differences and have read the material on it. Doesn't seem to compete with the Custom Legend but sounds great and plays as good as the Custom Legend too. I don't want to be kicking myself down the road, wishing I had bought the Custom Legend. Can you guys (and gals) help with this? All things being equal (except price), and price is no object, which would you buy and why? Last, what's your opinion on rosewood fretboards and the older rosette versus the new inlaid rosette? I keep hearing that I should play and listen and then decide. That I can do. But a year from now, 2 years, 5 years, whatever, when the wood is cracked and the electronics are rattling around in the bowl and the neck is tweeked, etc., and I start asking this forum other questions, I don't want to hear... "you idiot, why did you buy that piece of junk, you should have bought a... ". Thanks. | ||
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| alpep |
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Joined: December 2001 Posts: 10581 Location: NJ | I guess the problem is that both guitars are good choices the electronics are the same or similar and so is the construction except that the legend is a center hole guitar and the elite has the small holes. there is a distinct difference in sound. You will need to decide which is best for you but mind you this diffrence is acoustically not electronically. so you want a shallow bowl ok we got one part nailed down. the next point is you want a reassurance that it is the guitar you will want down the road and I don;t think anyone can do that for you. IMHO the inlayed rosette is much classier. I prefer ebony fingerboards but I also have guitars with rosewood too. IMHO ebony just plays easier and has a snappier sound. If as you say money is no object why not go for an adamas smt or cvt? or one of the collector's models such as the 2000 2001 or 2002 all these guitars are not only drop dead beautiful but sound great acoustically and electrically. (oops but they are probably all mid dept) since you want a shallow bowl there is not much sound coming out of the guitar aoustically so I guess you should go for what playes best to you. hope this helped you some. | ||
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| Paul Templeman |
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Joined: February 2002 Posts: 5750 Location: Scotland | As far as fingerboards go, good quality rosewood is comparable to ebony. Ebony is harder, more dense & more expensive, but they'll both do the job. Ebony may take a few more re-frets, but we're talking decades here. I think the new rosettes are quite elegant but I personally prefer the old over-lay as opposed to the new inlay, just because it says "Ovation" and pisses-off the purists. My choice would be the Custom Legend over the Elite Special (which is quite a basic guitar) Maybe a more representative comparison would be the Custom Legend & a Custom Elite. Ultimately go with your gut. Get a friend to play both guitars while you stand a few feet away, do it blindfold, buy with your ears, not your eyes. Paul | ||
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| E-Man |
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Joined: April 2002 Posts: 20 | Thanks to all. Got a lot to mull over. I realize that I am comparing apples to oranges with these models (or Balladeers/Elites-Specials to Custom Legends/Custom Elites). I'm really looking for a work horse and faced with one that's pretty and one that's light-weight. Which reminds me... since I've been reading this bulletin board, I hear a lot about face cracking. Would the "quintad" bracing better prevent this over the "A" bracing (or center hole versus epulet version)? How about 2-piece versus 5-piece neck? I understand the difference (in theory), but is the 2-piece inferior, more prone to failure or problems over time, or just plain not good? I saw an Adamas at the local music store and could swear it had a 2-piece neck. When I look at ratings, I usually focus on the negatives. I heard from someone that the Elite Special isn't a "real" elite, like it's some cheap imitation. Is it inferior to other models for other reasons than the lack of bells and whistles? Obviously, I'm obsessed over this decision... and time is running out. Oh well, probably either would be fine for my needs (I'm just a recreational player anymore). Got till Tuesday before the deal on the Custom Legend runs out. I'll try to gather more opinions until then. Thanks again for all your help and congratulations to the guy with the Russian Elite (I mean the guitar, not the KGB). E-Man | ||
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| JT3 |
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Joined: March 2002 Posts: 29 Location: Maryland | E-MAN .. I owned a 2000 Custom Legend and was truly a masterpiece of craftsmanship! The action was good with light strings (12 string ). Plugged into an "acoustic" amp it was 2nd to none. I own a celebrity 12 string, it's neck is low and fast,sounds good plugged in but "thin" un-plugged. I have a Adamas SMT 12 and can't say enough good about it...I think it's head and shoulders above most in it's price range. If I could only have one guitar it would be the Adamas second to that the Custom Legend.. I can't judge the Elite because I've never played one. Good luck on your purchase!! JT3 | ||
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| elias |
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| Joined: February 2002 Posts: 119 Location: Philadelphia, PA 19107 | Al and all, I think that the Elite special comes in super shallow bowl (again if I am wrong, please correct me). Is it so difficult for everybody to understand that shallow bowls mean shaloow sound!? Well, if you need only to plug it in, then lets ask Ovation to make an XXX shallow bowl, or even a bowless top! Al, don't give me always as an example the collectors edition. 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004. Try to focus on the standard production! I'll admit: the current ovation production is not that bad. i have seen and played custom legends, custom elites etc (mid-depth bowl) that sound O.K., and when plugged in they are killers. Again, what I am saying is that Ovation in order to lower the costs, and make more profit, from the original glorious models removed all the best features and apointments: carved wooden bridges, carved truss rod covers, discontinued models like Adamas, or the custom legend 1619 , etc, etc. Can you compare the current custom legend to the older 1619? Older Ovations looked better, sounded bettter unplugged (they too sounded excellent when plugged), they were better! What is so difficult to understand? Open your eyes and your ears! Compare the looks and the sound of the current balladeer production with the older balladeer! Compare the elites, compare the custom legends, compare all models with their predecessors Do not compare simply the electronics though! Compare the guitars. If you still insist that the current ovation production models are better than their predecessors its fine with me. I will never agree with that though!!!!! | ||
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| alpep |
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Joined: December 2001 Posts: 10581 Location: NJ | Elias take a couple of prozac and wash them down with a big swallow of ouzo....ok feeling better? e man wanted help about the 2 guitars he was looking out not a lecture on old vs new. I mentioned the collector's series because they are guitars that I have sold have loved and owned and feel very pasionate about. He did mention that money was not an issue. No one ever disagreed that shallow bowl equals shallow sound but he did say he wanted to play them plugged in. I know that is not your preference but YOU have to realize that not everyone is looking for what you are looking for in a guitar. what you consider the best features and ornamentation of the guitar may be what the people who are actually "BUYING" these gutars are not looking for. If you even ever bothered to read any of my posts I agree with you on the ornamentation issue and many others BUT we cannot go back into a time machine and put these gutars back on display at the stores so you have to deal with what is available now. Your opinion is valid | ||
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| Paul Templeman |
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Joined: February 2002 Posts: 5750 Location: Scotland | Elias, Nobody is arguing with you, it's just that some of us can see the bigger picture. I have said on a number of occasions that I believe the current high-end USA Ovations are superb instruments, I was not refering to the entry-level stuff or imports. They have their place, but they're not for serious players or collectors. Guitar companies would fold in seconds flat if they relied on the likes of us for their livelihoods. I own 15 or 16 Ovations, all but 2 (Mando & SMT) were bought used. You're right about the Balladeers. The current USA Balladeer is a cruel parody of the originals. Seventies acoustic-only Balladeers can be had for beans & a good one will leave just about every current USA-made entry-level guitar for dead. But times have changed, materials & man-hours are more expensive than they were 25 years ago, building a guitar like the original Balladeer at an entry-level price-point would not be possible. I agree that the super-shallows sound like shit unplugged. Read the posts on feedback. one of the ways to stop feedback is to reduce or eliminate the air-cavity. If you want a nice sounding acoustic, don't buy a super-shallow guitar. If you want to play loud without feedback they're very useful. I personally wouldn't even use one as a wok. The current Viper is a logical extension of the supershallow concept, but makes no pretence towards being acoustic. I love them. The cosmetic touches are a matter of taste, I think the new custom legend looks very elegant without the carvings & with the smaller fingerboard inlays, But I am also very fond of the old version. Paul [ April 29, 2002: Message edited by: Paul Templeman ] | ||
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| elias |
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| Joined: February 2002 Posts: 119 Location: Philadelphia, PA 19107 | Al, don't you worry about me, I'll finish up my ouzo, but I'll leave the prozac for you. I suggested E-man to walk intothe store, play-test both guitars (elite and c.legend), and pick up whatever he likes the best. That's it. His choice. In addition, I suggested E-man to check out the older versions of Elite and custom legend. His choice again. Will he, or other young guitarists ever have the opportunity to find an older Ovation (in good condition), play it and understand what I really mean? Very few people I guess. I hoped you'll understand... Paul, what can I say... I agree with you, and thanks | ||
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| E-Man |
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Joined: April 2002 Posts: 20 | Boy, it looks like I started a feud. Sorry about that. Hope you guys can work it out. Sounds to me like you all agree anyway, you just say it in different ways. For me, I want the shallow bowl because it sounds pretty good plugged in and, unplugged, I can play at night and not keep my kids up. Plus, I don't have to reach out a foot to play when I'm standing. Thought about other slimline A/E's but the Ovations suit me fine and still have the acoustic appearance. I can't find anything old/vintage that's still in reasonable shape. That worries me. Everyone is talking about face cracking, I've seen necks cracked, head stocks broken with missing pieces, etc. etc. Who plays these things? Gorillas? Also, I have read that Ebay is the dumping ground of choice for Ovations/Adamas' with rattles and buzzes that can't be fixed. I'd want to play before I commit but that's not how Ebay works. Oh well, back the drawing board. Still looking for opinions on rosewood versus ebony, 5-piece versus 2-piece neck and durability of round hole versus epulet style faces. By the way, when I talk about the fretboard, I'm asking about "relative" durability. If ebony is a 10 on scale of 1 to 10, is rosewood a 9? a 7? a 5? ("1" being, oh I don't know... cardboard?). Thanks boys, now when you hear the bell, come out fighting! E-Man | ||
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| Gary(Uk) |
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Joined: March 2002 Posts: 126 Location: UK | Mmmm, interesting dialog. I have never been graced with the presence or sound of an early deep bowl Ovation so cannot compare or comment on whats best, but only say what i have found with my two recent purchases. I have owned a few low end dreadnoughts 6 and 12 of various makes, still have my Fender 12 F55 and a copy shallow bowl Crafter 6,(i thought that sounded good :rolleyes: ) Decided to at last get up market axes, got the CVT Mill a mid bowl, and was blown away by the unplugged ability to throw sound out at a higher volumne than other acoustics ive been used to, and with a nice tone and bass. The Elite russian has done it again, a mid bowl again noticably heavier than the CVT Mill due to the walnut i suppose, the sound is totally different than the CVT top and to me is the best sounding guitar i have ever played and owned, and im told its by far not the best compared to some other specials and collecters around. I am primarily an unplugged player, so sound and feel is important to me, im more than happy with the 2 O`s i have, and know it would have been a waste of time and money to buy a non USA Ovation. Just wish i`d had an oppurtunity to play a selection side by side to compare properly. | ||
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| alpep |
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Joined: December 2001 Posts: 10581 Location: NJ | E msn you did not start a feud...there are some issues that exist that you will probably never find out here. as for rosewood vs ebony both are extremely durable maybe ebony a little more but it is really not an issue some feel ebony is quicker and brighter some feel rosewood is richer and not as bright. personally I love the look of the ebony board and the sound | ||
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| elias |
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| Joined: February 2002 Posts: 119 Location: Philadelphia, PA 19107 | << Sorry? what sorry? look what you did! I am almost drunk with ouzo, and Al is delirious with prozac! Al, you O.K buddy? << It's easy for you to say! << Exactly! because we all speak different languages: it's all greek to Al! << Whay didn't you say you got kids, on first place? oh, Man! You are definitely a "shallow bowl" man. << There you go! <<>> Whaaaaaaattttt????? Did you check with me? reasonable shape? I am talking MINT here! Once again: Elite? http://mail.med.upenn.edu/~elias/1537.jpg and http://mail.med.upenn.edu/~elias/elite.jpg Custom Legend? http://mail.med.upenn.edu/~elias/1119-4.jpg want anything else? i got it! Adamases: all colors! << Well ....they are vicious! Gorillas? he, he, he, he Al, do you know anything about that? << In the first place I suggested you to play and decide which one you like the best. << I am going nowhere. i am waiting for Al. My opposing buddy! Missed him! Go with ebony: Black is beautiful! 2 piece: less is better! epaulettes: when you don't play you can use them as wings-you can fly! << Huh? whats that? Al?! Help me out here buddy! I need your expertise. << I don't think so! Al, don't listen to him! | ||
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| alpep |
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Joined: December 2001 Posts: 10581 Location: NJ | elias I would seriously think about posting any more personal attacks | ||
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| elias |
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| Joined: February 2002 Posts: 119 Location: Philadelphia, PA 19107 | Personal attacks? What's that? Who attacked whom? Whatever you say Al! You the boss! | ||
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| moody, p.i. |
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Joined: March 2002 Posts: 15654 Location: SoCal | I love this place! I come home from a hard day of dectecting and read the posts and crack up. I've never seen a group of people disagree so much and work so hard to get along. This is great. Now, for opinions. Gary, the reason you see Ovations so beat up is that people think that because the back is tough, the rest of the guitar can be treated like ka-ka as well. Those of us who love our guitars very rarely have anything break, because we handle them with care. On fretboards, I've never liked rosewood. My guitars either have ebony or black walnut fingerboards. I'm not smart enough to comment on the sounds. I just don't like the way rosewood looks. I imagine they last just fine. Look at all the old Les Pauls out there. Ok, I'm gonna sit back and see who comes in swinging. | ||
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| JT3 |
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Joined: March 2002 Posts: 29 Location: Maryland | Man you can call this place a lot of things... but it sure ain't boring!!!!!! Like Ovation.. you guys are "spirited" & entertaining!!! | ||
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| Bradley |
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Joined: February 2002 Posts: 613 Location: Zion, Illinois | I can't find anything old/vintage that's still in reasonable shape and Also, I have read that Ebay is the dumping ground of choice for Ovations/Adamas' with rattles and buzzes that can't be fixed. I'd want to play before I commit but that's not how Ebay works. I guess I've been bless on E-Bay. I picked up an UK-II (with the MOTS bow-ties) in very good condition for $195. I bought a Custom Legend last year for $600. Yes the top cracked after I bought it and it was 100% my fault, never owned a guitar with AAA Spruce and our winters near Chicago have a way of drying out everything. A few weeks ago I picked up an Elite 1537 in near mint condition (1 small scratch so light that I could buff it out) for $549 tax, OHSC, and shipping include. This guitar is a beauty. I know it isn't what you're looking for, but if Elias's MINT Elite 1537 is as nice as mine, it really is one NICE guitar. There are some good guitars on E-Bay and some places, including the one I got my Elite 1537, will give you so many days to return the guitar if you're not happy with it (they will have to pry my Elite out of my dead, stiff fingers to get that one back). Since I have both guitars in question, I can give you a first hand opinion by looking at both guitars. My Custom Legend is about 4-5 years older than my Elite 1537 and the fretboard seems to have held up a little better than the Elite's (both are in fine condition). Since I'm not the orignal owner of either guitar, I can not tell you how much playing time is on each guitar. I can say that the ebony fretboard has held up better than the rosewood fretboard on my Gibson J-200 of what I am the original owner. Then again, that's a Gibson and if I were happy with that I wouldn't be buying Ovations. Bradley [ April 29, 2002: Message edited by: Bradley ] | ||
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| Beal |
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Joined: January 2002 Posts: 14127 Location: 6 String Ranch | To answer the original question, buy both guitars. That way you can stay at home, take your prozac and wash it down with ouzo and wonder "Do I like the guitar on the right better than the one on the left or not? Take another shot and pose the question again" | ||
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