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Location: SoCal | Never liked geritol, but metamucil is the prefered drink of us old farts everywhere.
[ December 12, 2002: Message edited by: moody, p.i. ] |
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Location: Ragley, Louisiana | I have a 1973 DEEP Bowl straight acoustic Balladeer "1111" that has a sound to "Die For". I've played with a number of folks thourgh the years that say "If I could find an Ovation that sounds like that I would buy one!!".
I know the market has to drive the industry to some extent, but I think Ovation is wrong to forget where they came from and what made them what they are today. They HAD a great acoustic sound and I personnel think theres still a market for that guitar.
DJ |
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Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | AMEN! Ovation use to be an acoustic guitar first. MY Adamas does what a good Ovation should. It sounds wonderful both as an acoustic and plugged in. Perfect! |
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Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire | Let me chime in to the chorus. My 1st Ovation was a repair job I got on an Ebay Auction. It also is an 1111, black peghead and neck, with "Balladeer" in script between the tuning pegs. Never seen another 1111 like it. And truly, the sound it makes is real close to ethereal. It's the "alpha" guitar in the menagerie. Even the CS-255 has to patiently wait its turn, despite the nice electronics and action job. Remember to always dance with the one you brought..... |
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Location: SoCal | Seesquare, I'd also bet that your Ovation 1111 has a shinny back. And I'm in agreement with people here that for many many people out here, our guitars should perform well acoustically and plugged in. I suspect that that is a big part of the charm of Takamines, Taylors, and others, ie, that they are good both ways. If people love their guitars, then they will play them on stage or at home. I don't see the companies listed above feeling the need to sell a super shallow bodied guitar for stage work.
OVATION... DO YOU HEAR US? MAKE A GOOD SOUNDING GUITAR (LIKE AN OLD BALLADEER OR ADAMAS OR ELITE) AND SELL IT RIGHT, AND PEOPLE WILL BUY IT. AT THIS POINT, YOU'RE NOT DOING MUCH OF THAT RIGHT.
Aw, what's the use? Nobody's listening. But when I go to the NAMM show in January (hint Cliff), I'm going to corner somebody at Ovation and make them listen. Might do some good. Aw..... |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | Why not get some of the higher ups, with letters in their titles, and give it to them face to face when you all go to the factory? Nothing wrong with the NAMM show either, just that is a busy, crazy enviroment to try to have a meaningful conversation. Been there, done that, doesn't work. |
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Location: SoCal | Hey Bill, you forget what I do for a living. I can get their attention. |
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| It's interesting (and fortuitous) that this subject has come up right at the time I'm in the market for a deep bowl Custom Legend. I've been in communication with Mark Lamanna at Ovation about my needs and that Ovation doesn't have any deep bowl Custom Legends available (in fact I couldn't find ANY deep bowl model) EXCEPT the Al Dimeola Signature, which is a take it or leave it model - no changes. In fact, it appears that the deep bowl models that used to be available, 1111-4, 1779-4, and the rumored Folkslore, all have no picture and missing specs. on the official web site, as if even these are being deleted/discontinued.
Mark gave me a statement on the subject which does not sound good for the deep bowl models: "The reason that we have moved from the deep bowl to mid depth and shallow/super-shallow is due to market demand. NO ONE HAS BEEN ORDERING THE DEEP BOWLS (emphasis mine) and they were asking for other options both appearance wise and for playability".
It appears that the only deep bowl Ovations will be Old Deep Bowl Ovations. So much for progress. |
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| Donald,
I stronyly urge you to try a deep bowl Ovation from any local store. If you think the 2002 Collector's Edition is bassless & lack of character & personality, you might be disappointed when you receive a deep bowl Custom Legend.
People often chase things they don't have. Your recollection of the sound of your ex-wife's Ovation 25 years ago might not be entirely accurate.
I compared my 2002 with 1619 (deep bowl Custom Legend from the 70s). 2002 has better tonal balance & good bass. If you really want more bass, you should try Martin D18 or HD28. |
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| I agree with your caution. I've thought about the possibility of 'false memory syndrome' and have tried to find ANY deep bowl Ovation. There just aren't any around my area. While waiting for an ebay purchase, I'm still searching for a chance to hear one. So far, my current preferance is based on my 'memory' and discussions with Ovation cust. serv. and forum members. I still love the 2002-AC visually. I have a picture of it on the table near the couch. I darn near bought it. |
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Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | Donald, I like you like alot of bass in an acoustic guitar. When I bought my Adamas in 1981, that was the thing that grabbed me. It has TONS of bass! I know the top has alot to do with that. But without it's deep bowl back, it would not be possible. I will never be a fan of the shallow back. Once you get use to a guitar that has such a uniform sound, it's hard to play anything else. Again, as when I started this post: WHERE ARE THE DEEP BOWLS!!!!!!!! |
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| Donald,
You may want to go to several major guitar stores in LA this weekend. They may have some used deep bowl Ovation. Ovation 2002 Collector's Edition (mid bowl) has good bass & tonal balance relative to other Ovation guitars. By the way, are you sure the one you tried was 2002 Collector Edition (Made in USA), not 2002 Limited Edition (Made in Korea)? 2003 Collector's Edition is coming soon.
You should also try some high-end Martin, e.g. D18, D28 ... D45. at the guitar store just for bass comparison.
If you want to get the 2002 Collector's Edition or other Ovation, you could get them online 30-50% off . No discount if you order a deep bowl Custom Legend from Ovation directly, however. |
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Location: Scotland | Donald, talking about sound is like dancing about archicture....meaningless, Find a guitar you like and trust your ears and hands. If the guitar "speaks" to you buy it, think about the bowl depth later. Every instrument is unique, if you have the time & opportunity try as many guitars as possible before you make your final choice, but ultimately the final choice should be yours and yours alone. I'd agree with Sunny that a Martin dreadnought generally has more bass than any Ovation, the problem is that they have very little of anything else, and that's why I prefer the Ovation sound: balance, stronger midrange. As a recording engineer I know it's easier to EQ out what you don't need than try to put in what isn't there in the fisrt place.
[ December 13, 2002: Message edited by: Paul Templeman ] |
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Location: Las Cruces, NM | Gents
What a great discussion, I had chimed in a couple days ago with a diatribe on the pleasure of a great acoustic sound for jamming with friends, setting around the house and doodling as we all do, and generally using a guitar in settings other than full stage entertaining. I commented on early Glen Campbell shows where he was playing acoustic Ovations that I'm sure he chose for their great acoustic sound but were difficult to hear and on later shows the electric versions appeared with a great amplified acoustic sound, and how we learned from earlier posts that the goal of Mr. Kaman was to match or exceed a Martin dreadnought that he owned. I summerized with the question of shouldn't the goal that inspired the Ovation be adhered to since it attracted many great players.
I lost my connection and the whole post was gone for good and I sulked for two days while everybody else said the same thing.
What was the original inspiration for the Ovation acoustic should not be forgotten. A Ferrari by Fiat will not be a Ferrari.
Bailey |
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| Amen, Bailey. I too was thinking that Ovation should always have available a nicely outfitted Custom Legend Deep Bowl, no matter what direction marketing is promoting. That sound should never be lost. Like I said earlier, all other tastes are fully covered in the line=up - except this one. |
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Location: NJ | bailey
point of information. the martin d 45 belonged to Jim Rickard. |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | Al, that's true about the D-45 but there was a 65 D-28 that was a constant comparison piece also. |
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Location: Nova Scotia, Canada | Bailey, I have one of GC's earliest deep bowl acoustics (late '68) and can attest to the face that he had to have liked the sound of it. It is the best sounding roundhole I have ever heard and one of the best sounding acoustics I have ever heard, period. It has the bass and the highs that we all love but the midrange...it just snaps out of the thing. The neck profile (thickness, not width) is considerably larger than the later guitars and I believe that a larger, stiffer neck like this contributes to the sound of any guitar.
Wayne |
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Location: Las Cruces, NM | Apologies to Jim Rickard, I knew that and I believe Jim was as much the initiator of the vision from what we've read. I truly believe that there is nothing more inspiring than an exceptional acoustic. As Paul T has said, when you end up on stage you find that amplification is needed, but it takes many hours, days, months, years, of woodshedding to get there, and a guitar that inspires and amazes you will make that practice time much more fun. One other observation is that the best players transcend the guitar quality, they can pick up whatever is laying around and make it sound like whatever they want, that said, they still gravitate to the best for personal use but don't always take that irreplaceble acoustic out of the house and risk it being stolen.
We need those great acoustics even if we don't take them out to the dives we're working in. No acoustic guitar manufacturer will be considered professional unless they have a quality guitar with above average sound, note that I didn't say appearance, sound is what counts, it can be plain as anything but the sound will cause professionals to praise it, I never heard any player say I've got to be seen with that beautiful guitar even though it sounds like S--T.
Bailey |
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Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire | Case in point- Willie Nelson. |
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Location: Ragley, Louisiana | A-MEN !!!!!!
DJ |
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Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire | This is a great discussion. Obviously, I have no compunction against aiding & abetting rebellion and generally causing a nuisance, i.e., "Whaddud they gitcha for, Boy?....). We need to establish a grassroots movement for the Mother Ship to maintain at least one deepbody in inventory!
On other fronts: Hey, Paul- thanks for your speculation on my ancient 1111, really helped me out. BUT.....it has the dull, pebbleback bowl. Like I said, it's the only one I've ever seen. Unfortunately, somewhere in it's travels; it lost its serial number. The foil label says 1111 (no hyphen, no extra number), made in Connecticut. I'm figuring it was made in the early '70's sometime. Solid as a rock, straight as an arrow, voiced like an angel, with PERFECT intonation. I am truly blessed.
In the spirit of the season, my friends, "God bless us, everyone." Be well, and kind. |
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Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada | I hear ya, Norseman1!!! I bought a Martin D28 in 1981, and it was the be-all end-all, until I ended up with an Ovation Elite deep bowl 6 and 12 string. Still have the Martin, but it just stays in it's hardshell case--doesn't quite keep in perfect tune like the Ovations!!! |
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WHERE ARE THE DEEP BOWLS????
