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Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7248
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | ... or beating a dead horse :(
I just came back from a local music store here in Frederick. They have been my local "go to" shop when I need something in an emergency. They carry many Kaman Music Corp product lines, although not much of anything in particular, but thay have plenty of the stings, cables, drum heads etc. etc. etc.
They also have a nice acoustic guitar room, with maybe 40 or 50 guitars. Many Dean and Taylor and of course Ovation. The only "USA" model was a used 1992 collectors, they rest were spread across Tangents (even the MOB), Celebs and Applause. As with most stores, they don't put the guitars up in any particular order, and as one who is not intimately familiar with all of the models, I really found myself having to read each tag to figure out which was which. I could easily see, where somone would pick up the Collectors (even used) and then look at the $299 applause, and just not bother any further thinking they are all just variations on a theme. I guess a sales rep could have explained what the difference is, but there were only two in the store and they were busy.
I'm not laying fault with the store, they are actually great folks. The observation I'm making (again.. being redundant but I think it's important) is that the OTHER guitars there are pretty much "WYSISYG" (for non-computer folks that's "What You See Is What You Get" ) The higher end acoustics LOOK higher end, right off the bat. The less expensive ones are clearly less expensive. The finish, the dressing etc.. give it way... mostly. But as example, you look at an MOB and look at an Elite-T. If you are just "looking" (putting likes and dislikes of either models design asside) You really can't tell the major differences. Sure the Elite has a natural neck, but the MOB has a fancy glossy paint job. The uneducated has little information that one is a USA Made "stripped down" woodtop (I think) Elite, and the other is made in Korea, aluminum neck etc.
Thanks for listening.. I just needed to vent. I figured out what I miss most about music stores of days gone by. Almost anytime I went into one, I learned something useful. Even larger stores like Bill's or the old Venemans in Springfield, or even River's when I was growing up. It seemed people were more interested and knowledgeable in the stores. I think Ovation needs to realize this, if they haven't already, and somehow maybe require the information about these cutting edge guitars to be displayed with the guitars in a more blatent format. So the unknowing can at least learn the basics of "why round" or "No, it's NOT plastic," or they are Made in USA, or just because it has epultets doesn't make it an Admams or or or or or. |
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Joined:
January 2002
Posts: 14127
Location: 6 String Ranch | Or beating a dead horse.....
Or whistling in the wind...
or like the words to one of my favorite Paul Butterfield songs
"This old brick wall ain't heard a word I've said...I'm burried alive with the blues!" |
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Joined:
October 2002
Posts: 33
Location: Pittsburgh PA | Miles,
"Venemans Music" sure brings up memories for me. I lived in Springfield/Northern VA for 20 years 1973 to 1993 before moving back home to the Pittsburgh area. Venemans in Springfield is where I bought my 1974 D-35 Martin - new including the case for $500. It was a good store I bought all my keyboards etc. there. I heard they had a fire. I don't know if they rebuilt or not. For a while I mail ordered some things from the MD store, but now I guess they have been bought out by the Guitar Center. We have a couple of nice music stores here; Hollowoods and Piano's N' Suff. And of we have Guitar Center as well. They all carry Ovations.
--Mike |
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November 2002
Posts: 1196
Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | Miles, you bring up a great point. Seems nowdays Ovations are not displayed like the great guitars they are. I still remember very well the first time I saw Ovation guitars in a music store. They were all there in different colors. I saw Balladeers, Legends, Custom Legends all hanging side by side. I remember taking a Balladeer down and the sales guy telling me the advantages of the round back. I was sold! Now it seems acoustic guitars from various companies hang side by side. You might have a nice Guild hanging by an import Fender. Seems that Ovation has lost its way in showing what makes Ovation guitars unique. The impact I first had as a young boy stayed with me. I have played no other acoustic guitars but Ovations for over 20 years. I hope that Ovation can still find away to touch a young player. Look at this group here in the fan club. Ovation got to us didn't they?....Paul Hebert |
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Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 10583
Location: NJ | Plenty of cool USA ovations to check out on my website. |
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January 2003
Posts: 105
Location: San Francisco, CA | Lots of Ovations here in N CA. I stoped by Guitar Center. They have almost every models of Martin (including D45V), Taylor, Ovation/Adamas, etc. Most guitars, including $6000+ ones, were poorly set up, with LOTS of pick marks. I was not impressed by the $3-6k Martin at all. The new Adamas and Ovation (both USA & Korean versions)did not feel & sound as good as my old Ovation. |
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Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7248
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | There used to be "Ovation Showrooms" in stores although I can see where that would be a little overbaked nowadays for most stores. Slick plug you snuck in there Al.
Yes Venemans Springfield was great, until it was toast. A lot of pretty noteable musicians used to shop there, the whole Marshall Tucker, Rainbow/Blackmore, Roadducks era folks that frequented the area and even ran into AC/DC's Bassest once there (although I didn't know who he was). Personally I think the visiting the "music store" was an excuse to get lunch across the street at the "Steak House." ;) :D They had a fire sale and then merged into only the Maryland store. Now they managed to keep the name as Venemans Guitar Center. Not the same.
Back on the topic... What ever happened to hang tags? I could not figure out what's been missing from days of yore, but that's it. Guitars always used to have a little pamphlet, booklet, flyer or something hanging from the heasdstock besides just a price tag. I assume they would always be taken is why they stopped, but whatever, at least they explained what you were looking at. |
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Joined:
May 2002
Posts: 3005
Location: Las Cruces, NM | Miles
That is a very interesting idea. If any factory guys or store workers are reading this let me ask, do any guitars ship with a simple tag that could be displayed with the pertinent information? If not, why not? It seems as if this would be a good marketing gimmick in today's music stores where the help is not the most useful. An item that sells for $100's of dollars could have at least as much info attached as a $10 gadget in Wal Mart. If this catches on, Miles gets the credit.
Bailey |
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Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7248
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | I wish it was an original idea. I have a whole folder full of Ovation hang tags. I just don't remember when they stopped using them. |
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January 2003
Posts: 146
Location: Germantown, MD | Veneman's in Springfield brings back some memories. On the day before Washington's Birthday 1979, we had a blizzard in the DC area, but I had been in Veneman's the day before and learned that they were going to have a great deal on Ovation Legends for Washington's Birthday. On Washington's Birthday, we called the store, they were open, and my wife (five months pregnant at the time) and I walked two miles each way to buy my Ovation. Now it's 24 years later, we're expecting a heavy snowstorm, and I'm going to sit around the house with my Legend (now named "Blizzard") and the Celebrity I bought last summer (now named "Summer.")
Veneman's was great--good selection and employees who knew what they were talking about. Mars (which was in a shopping center two blocks from Veneman's location) started out okay, but by the time they went belly up it seemed that the people who really knew their stuff were leaving.
Bottom line to boring post: Hang tags are okay, but I'd rather have salespeople who are familiar with products and know enough to tell me when they don't know the answer to a question. |
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February 2003
Posts: 20
Location: Virginia | What store was that in Frederick? I get up that way from Winchester every now and then. I'd like to stop by sometime. |
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Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7248
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Yes indeed, sales people that know something would be nice, but that's just not realistic in most cases with what they can be paid, or willing to work for. On top of that asking an 18 year old to say "I really don't know, let me go find out" is also asking a bit much I think. More importantly, Ovation doesn't have any control on who in the store is talking to the customer, so why not present a medium that speaks for itself. Like I said, I don't remember when hang tags went away, but I do remember a day when they were on every instrument in a store.
There are a few stores in Frederick. Boe's Strings downstown, next to Carrol Creek on Market, and also actually on Market but I guess it's 355 at that point off the North end of town, out near the the Routzahns Furnature store is Make'N Music. On the Golden Mile is Music and Arts and in FSK mall is another store.
By the way, I go to Winchester Motorsports (Exit #3 ?) for my bikes. |
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Joined:
February 2003
Posts: 20
Location: Virginia | Holy crap! Amazing how many things people have in common!
I live at Summit Point during the bike races :-)
Please visit
http://www.gwfweb.com/cycles
I ride a TL1000R and a Shadow Sabre 1100.
And you? |
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Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7248
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | I ride the "Other" Made In USA bike. Check out the gallery :) |
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February 2003
Posts: 20
Location: Virginia | We should ride sometime. The people at WMS are good people. I take my bikes there for inspections. |
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Joined:
December 2002
Posts: 68
Location: Texas | This is what I was talking about in one of my latest postings.
My father-in-law is wanting to buy a higher end guitar...He wants an Ovation. The Ovation was recommended to him by Larry Gatlin, a friend of his, years ago. He likes my old "O" and wants a top of the model from today. He wants to touch it, feel it and play it before he buys it. Most of the companies listed as "O" dealers in Texas have low end Korean guitars.
We are heading towards Austin to see if we can't find a new old stock at one of the shops there.
I am a business man and I know that money is in volume...but heh...H&H and a few others in Texas should not be listed as bonified "O" dealers if they have no high end guitars and can not answer any questions regarding the high end models.
I walked into one "Ovation" dealer's shop on the NW side of Houston explained EXACTLY what I was looking for....after looking at a couple beat up old cracked head Baladeers the sales man came back and said..."I have a guitar you want to see...." He walked out an applause and said you may want to take a serious look at this.
I think there are rules on this site so I will not give my response to him.
-Shaft |
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May 2002
Posts: 3005
Location: Las Cruces, NM | Shaft
The rules are not designed to prevent you from expressing that sort of opinion. I don't want to knock the Korean instruments, but that is ridiculous.
Bailey |
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Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7248
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Shaft,
It is my understanding that each of the stores ARE required to carry a certain amount of ALL of the KMC line. I would guess that enforcing those rules must be difficult. I don't know the answer. I can see the stores angle... of why should they bother with a high-end line when they can't keep the imports in the store, and in general the high end guitar will sit for awhile, and possible get damaged.
If a store can sell import Ovations, as many as Ovation can send them, without having to special train anyone, without risking a high-end instrument in the store... why not. Maybe they would make a few hundred on the sale, but they would in fact have to "SELL" it. The imports sell themselves. I can't blame the stores.. although I really want to. |
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Joined:
January 2003
Posts: 1498
Location: San Bernardino, California | I was just over at the Rickenbacker web site and I think Ovation could learn a few things just by looking at that site. ( www.rickenbacker.com ) |
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Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7248
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | There is a big difference with Ric...
"Every instrument bearing the Rickenbacker name was produced in our own factory in California, U.S.A."
And I believe this is part of the problem. When I look at a guitar hanging in a store that sais Ovation on the headstock, I do not know where it is made, unless I look closely at the inside label. Especially when it is in the mid-price range. The Elite-T, Tangent, MOB, and Vipers are similarly priced, and drastically different designs. The following opinions should not exist, but I hear these comments and stories all the time.
[list]
[*]Ovations are ALL imports
[*]Ovations are all Made In USA
[*]I bought an Ovation, and THOUGHT it was Made In USA and it wasn't
[*]Any Ovation with epulets is an Adamas
[/list]
There are more.. but these I hear often enough. Of course it's not as bad as lets say B.C. Rich who used to be not only known for Made in USA, but completely HANDMADE in the USA. NO TOOLINGS. After two transfers of the names, and a huge import project, and a factory that was using templates and die machines, the only way to know you have a "real" B.C. Rich is to look up the serial number.
It's funny how it seems the topic of imports permiates almost every major guitar conversation, on every brand, at every level, but all the companies (the large ones)... just trudge on. |
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Joined:
February 2003
Posts: 3
Location: idaho | This is interesting to me also but my twist is this when i play my 81 ballader or my 1617 legend at the guitar shop and then play the newest best usa model they have wich is usally a copy of an adamas, they all sound like crap!!!
So i started to buy all the old usa ones i could afford and am way happier than spending 1200+ for a new one and now i have three for the price of one.I really hate the way the finish is on the necks now.The mahog feels like it is going to give you a sliver at any time.I think ovation has fallen from grace on the newer guitars and the quality has suffered for it.When they started out they wanted to prove something something that has never been done before but now they are starting to look and sound like everybody elses guitars.I have played several tacoma guitars and would buy their chief model because it sounds like an old ovation.. |
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Shopping for Ovations
