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June 2006
Posts: 106
Location: UK | Currently playing embryonic journey (Jorma Kaukonen) but there's a bit I'm having a little trouble with.
Because I'm having a bit of trouble I went out and got Jorma's book/cd "The Guitar of Jorma Kaukonen". Interesting read but what's written in the book and what's on the cd aren't the same.
I've learned a lot of tunes over the years from various books/cds but I like to use the material as an 'aid' to developing my own take on the tune rather than playing it parrot fashion so I never really expect the book and audio to be the same (except for Mark Hanson's which are usually exact). But this one from Jorma has kind of stumped me. In his book in the section I'm having trouble with the written tab is over simplified and on the audio he just kind of messes about showing 'other' funky ways to play it basically ignoring the book.
Does anyone have the music/tab and audio for Embrionic Journey where the written tab is identical to what's being played ? I don't need the whole thing. Just the high slidey section starting around the 1 minute mark.
Cheers |
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March 2008
Posts: 2683
Location: Hot Springs, S.D. | Wow, I play it (my own way), but I don't have tabs. I learned it by ear, and when I got to any parts that I couldn't get, I just did my own thing. (I also decided to learn it in A as well. Sometimes I play it on my classical guitar, and I hate doing drop D on nylon strings. On the steel string, I do the drop D. It's fun to play either way.) |
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October 2007
Posts: 2711
Location: Vernon CT | Originally posted by CanterburyStrings:
Wow, I play it (my own way), but I don't have tabs. I learned it by ear, and when I got to any parts that I couldn't get, I just did my own thing. (I also decided to learn it in A as well. Sometimes I play it on my classical guitar, and I hate doing drop D on nylon strings. On the steel string, I do the drop D. It's fun to play either way.) Man,I hate people who can "play by ear" !! LOL!
Damn C.S., I admirer that ability!!! That's Awsome! |
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March 2008
Posts: 2683
Location: Hot Springs, S.D. | Thanks, BT. My Mom played piano to me before I was born. I guess that's why I have a good ear. But I don't have good eyes. I can read music if I take my time, but I'll never be able to sight-read. Some kind of mental block I guess. |
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March 2005
Posts: 12750
Location: Boise, Idaho | One of the first music books I got was a Hal Leonard book with tabs for Clapton's acoustic album. Since it was "official" I figured it would be accurate, but it isn't even close. In fact, except for the lyrics, it's a total waste of time. It doesn't even attempt to make it easier. I was struggling with the Tears in Heaven tab, but then was listening to the CD in the car. I could tell from the CD that the song started with an A, but the book had it in a different key. Since then I've pretty much given up on books and either gone to Powertabs, where I can hear it before I print it, or use Youtube to figure out parts I can't get by ear. Most of my best work has been by ear, often very painstakingly listening to every note. Anything done in an alternate tuning, though, stumps me totally. |
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February 2005
Posts: 11840
Location: closely held secret | I doubt if Kaukonen still plays it the same way he played it 40 years ago. Not that there's any comparison, but I know pieces I've put together evolve over time until they sound right to me. They rarely sound like the original I started with.
"Embryonic Journey" has always sounded to me like maybe he was fiddling with something, and in a moment of inspiration, it came together. Someone said "Quick! Roll tape!" and history was made.
Mark, I've always believed that Hal Leonard guitar books were
1: transcribed by pianists and
B: tabbed by banjo players.
You're a lawyer. You should know that "Official" doesn't mean accurate, just licensed. |
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Joined:
June 2006
Posts: 106
Location: UK | I bought the Jorma book/cd because
1 it's Jorma himself doing the playin' and a talkin' and
B I therefore assumed the tab would match what he's actually playing.
But I guess while jorma did the audio, the transcribing and tabbing was left to the banjo playing pianist. |
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March 2008
Posts: 2683
Location: Hot Springs, S.D. | OK, that does it. I'm going to learn that song on my banjo! I'll let you know how it turns out. |
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March 2005
Posts: 12750
Location: Boise, Idaho | A free lesson is rarely a good one. Actually, I think I got that book as a gift when I was just starting to figure out tabs. I thought it was my inability to figure the tabs out, coupled with my inability to read music for guitar. Those deficiencies certainly contributed. I'm much better at reading tabs now, but I'm also much more suspicious. I've found very few that are really accurate. I agree with the transcribed by pianists part, but I have found better Clapton books, I just need to make sure I get the right one. |
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March 2008
Posts: 2683
Location: Hot Springs, S.D. | Hey, I wasn't kidding. I've been messing around with it for the past few minutes, and I think I'm going to be able to pull this off! If I can do this it's really going to sound cool. Thanks for the idea! |
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June 2006
Posts: 106
Location: UK | I have a Leo Kottke book/cd by Mark Hanson where the book and the audio are an exact match. Before breaking it in to small parts for study he plays the whole tune through at half speed and counts through the tab sections so you can follow every note. |
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June 2006
Posts: 106
Location: UK | I'd be interested to hear that played on the banjo. |
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August 2005
Posts: 3736
Location: Sunshine State, Australia | Originally posted by Mark in Boise:
...I've pretty much given up on books and...(now) use Youtube to figure out parts I can't get by ear. Most of my best work has been by ear, often very painstakingly listening to every note. Anything done in an alternate tuning, though, stumps me totally. Add "use Amazing Slow Downer" to the above and you've pretty much nailed me again, Mark. |
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Joined:
March 2005
Posts: 12750
Location: Boise, Idaho | I'm still not too good at that computer stuff. I hate rewinding digital recordings and the more electronic something sounds, the more trouble I have translating it to guitar.
Maybe I should go back to recording songs on my old reel to reel and learning from that. Sometimes I can pick up the octave better than I can pick up the computer sound. That and the computer is upstairs usually being used by my wife and I'm down in the basement with the guitars. |
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Joined:
August 2005
Posts: 3736
Location: Sunshine State, Australia | Originally posted by Mark in Boise:
I hate rewinding digital recordings That ain't how it works - there's no 'rewinding'. You start and end at exactly the point you want to and loop it (if you want).
Doesn't sound 'electronic' - well, no more 'electronic' than a CD or MP3. |
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Joined:
June 2006
Posts: 106
Location: UK | Amazing slowdowner is good. I use it a lot.
Altering the speed of a recording ought to change the pitch but amazing slowdowner manages to change the speed without changing the pitch at all. |
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Joined:
March 2005
Posts: 12750
Location: Boise, Idaho | I guess I'll have to learn how to download music to the computer now. To hell with it. I spend way too much time on the computer already and not enough time practicing. I need to get back to the intro to Crazy On You. No need to slow it down, I just have to learn to play faster. |
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November 2005
Posts: 4820
Location: Campbell River, British Columbia | Originally posted by BT717:
Man,I hate people who can "play by ear" I hear ya.
The calluses are pretty ugly too. |
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August 2005
Posts: 3736
Location: Sunshine State, Australia | Originally posted by Mark in Boise:
To hell with it. I spend way too much time on the computer already and not enough time practicing. You've got it all wrong Mark. Spending a little more time on the computer (using ASD) means you spend a LOT less time LEARNING new songs, therefore allowing you more playing/refining/improving time overall. |
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Joined:
August 2006
Posts: 3145
Location: Marlton, NJ | +1 on ASD - it helped me tremendously in figuring out a couple of parts of Mood For a Day.
Mark - same experience with the Clapton book. It drove me nuts. By ear is the best way for me.
Nicky, on the other hand, has to watch my fingers if I'm trying to teach him something. I make him turn away and listen... he's getting there slowly, but surely. |
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Embryonic Journey - anyone ?
