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Posts: 398
Location: So. Cal. | The only way Kaman/ovation makes money is if we buy "new" guitars and NOT recycle used ones. As much as a lot of us love the O's, how many of us have actually bought a brand new one from a dealer recently?
My last new O was an SMT 12 string bought about 4 years ago from GC. The new slothead might be my next one, hopefully!?
Your response is much appreciated. |
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January 2003
Posts: 105
Location: San Francisco, CA | New ones in the past 3 years - 2001 & 2002 collector, Adamas 1597 ... plus numerous over the years.
I asked the same question in "America" yesterday, " We keep hearing complains that Ovation gets no respect & that no one uses Ovation. How many of us have bought NEW Ovation in the past few years? If we don't buy, how do we expect Ovation to make money & have more marketing, e.g. sign up more famous artists?" |
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Posts: 1922
Location: Canton (Detroit), MI | I bought a Celebrity CC01 from Elderly Instruments a couple of months ago. Not a more expensive U.S.-made model, unfortunately, but it was what I wanted, a deep-bowl, no cutaway, no electronics. That doesn't exist in the regular U.S.-made line.
I'm in the market for an Ovation 12-string, and if I can't find an older deep-bowl, no cutaway model in good shape at a decent price(been watching eBay intently for the last 3 weeks or so), I'll probably buy a 6751 Balladeer 12-string. But it isn't really what I want.
If Ovation wants to sell me a guitar, they need to make what I want. And not put it out as an expensive "limited edition", like the Folklore Limited and the Glen Campbell. I can't justify $1400 for a guitar to the fairer member of the household.
Apologies to all who have seen me go on about this multiple times. But the only way that Ovation is going to realize the market exists is if someone from there sees posts like this. |
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Posts: 2246
Location: Yucaipa, California | I've purchased the new guitars listed below in the past year from trusted dealers:
tim |
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May 2003
Posts: 143
Location: High, in the Rocky Mountains of Colorado | All I have been able to squeeze out of the budget this year has been 3 new and one recycled. Three to one I figure is supporting Ovation, and capitolizing on a "great deal" for myself. The best of both worlds...
Dale |
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April 2003
Posts: 2503
Location: Fayetteville, NC | I purchased my 1858 Elite 12 String \Mid Bowl within the last5 Months. I really want the 6 String version-been talking to Al via email- he gave me a good price-all that's left is to try and save the Money.It's just like anything else that you'd like to buy- you just have to set money back from time to time till you have it.
In other words, I 'm supporting Ovation.
:D |
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Posts: 10581
Location: NJ | I will always maintain that the strength of the new product is reflected by the resale of the used.
The reason why givsoung can sell overpriced and poorly made les pauls is because of the strength of the used market. People want Lp's because of the mystique that they have and because the early ones were well made instruments.
Ovation has a short history compared to givsong. If you take that into perspective, it is not doing too bad in the market place. The storm series and solidbodies sell for about what they cost new and the Adamas I guitars hold their value well also.
Ovation, know for its innovations has not radically changed for the past 20 years. Sure there have been upgrades and changes but nothing earth shattering. wait till next year.
With all that said, Ovation still makes a damn nice product, a product that plays well, sounds good amplified and unplugged and we as zealots know that the rest of the guitars playing world needs to catch up. Remember Ovations are more respected in europe and asia than in the US. IMHO.
They will...and we will be waiting ready to open them in. |
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Posts: 9301
Location: south east Michigan | I bought my two Ovations in 1970 & 1972. Only lately do I feel the need for another & will be seriously looking at the new models. I am amazed at the collection of guitars some of you have, but for a "living room / campfire" player, how many more do I need? My desire for a new one comes from the fact that I have become afraid to take my "baby" out of the house! |
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March 2002
Posts: 15654
Location: SoCal | I've purchased three "new" Ovations. An Artist, in 1972 (I miss that guitar), a Legend in 1979 (still have) and Big Blue (Adamas 12 string, built in 1993 and purchased new by me in 1996). Oh, and my wife bought me an Applause travel guitar 2-3 years back. Everything else was purchased used.
The only guitars that really get my interest going are an '87 Collectors, and this new Adamas slothead. If I bought the Adamas (which I can't for a year or two), I'd go thru Al in a heartbeat. The '87 would probably be thru ebay. |
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Posts: 9301
Location: south east Michigan | However....I have run through my share of Ovation T-shirts, hats, and denim shirts and would love to buy an Ovation strap. For years I had a Ovation pick dispenser / key ring. But nothing lasts forever. My wife has had to plead to me to trash a favorite shirt that is no longer availible.
Brad |
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Posts: 398
Location: So. Cal. | There is actually another point hidden in this thread. A lot of us seem to like the old O's much better than the new ones. That's why we are still recyling old ones in the used market. Ralph, you are exactly right about people not buying new ones. I got the inspiration from reading your "America" thread. I personally was quite disappointed with the new SMT 12 I bought compared with the old ones I already owned.
New Martin's are selling quite well (whether you like them or not!). The UMGF (Unofficial Martin Guitar Forum) - similar entity as the OFC - actually got Martin to make a limited edition UMGF guitar. So far, over 40 has been ordered.
What's it going to take for most of us to spend some hard earned money on a brand spanking new O? |
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Posts: 10581
Location: NJ | What's it going to take for most of us to spend some hard earned money on a brand spanking new O?[/QB]
anything short of a miracle I am not sure.
We have almost 2000 members yet we only have 32 signed up for the covention.
Every other post is about a guitar on e bay going cheap or something like that.
there was the special folklore model was made basically as a suggestion from our forum and it went no where.
I hear people screaming for acoustic only guitars I have a bunch that are adamas textured tops no less and no one asks about them....
I hope you have a better answer than I |
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February 2002
Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | In 25 years I've bought 6 new Ovations, 3 of which are long gone & missed. The most recent are a Mando in '96 (which I've just sold & replaced with a "book" version) an SMT a couple of years ago & my custom order earlier this year. the other couple of dozen I own were all bought used (and cheap) I expect to buy at least 1 new Ovation next year, though something will have to go to justify it. |
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Posts: 4619
Location: SoCal | Ovation's past success can affect the present sales negatively...
Some of the reasons that I have not bought new since 1981:
Availability and cost of earlier guitars, quality of earlier guitars (not better than current quality), perceived minor improvements (see Paul T's positive comments about the earlier electronics), durability of guitar-hard to damage sides and back of a non-wood bowl (never been concerned about belt buckle scratches on a bowl as I would with a wood box.)
Traditionalism - some, like myself still like the wood box with round sound hole - yet buy the woodtop, center hole Ovation as a compromise as we get a higher level of playability than the wood box (i.e., Martin.) Some minor changes in finish (I like the dark sunburst and carved bridge.)
Familiarity - guitar stores are failures...I was familiar with the Custom Legend as I used to have one. Others - only familiar as to visual appearance. Would be difficult, even in San Diego, to try out Ovation's top of the line at quitar stores...have a few Celeb's but where are the Custom Legends or Custom Elites? Even Adamas is a rare sighting. Other than the catalog, I have no idea how to compare the current line of Adamas - not unless I could take a few minutes to play one, then another. No description in a catalog or on a web site compares to playing the guitar.
I have seven older Ovations (4 Custom Legends), all purchased this year. Each time I asked myself what would I gain by buying new...better features, appearance, playability, sound??? Since I don't care about a cutaway, can't see the advantage to buy a new one paying a far higher price. This isn't like the family car where you eventually need to replace for style or dependability.
I look forward to see what changes are coming out. As I wait, I am scepticle as to what improvements could entice me to buy. ?? color, shape, electronics, style, playability, limited run for collectability ??
Yet, I don't feel that my purchases hurt the company...and, we are part of the solution: we reduce the glut on eBay so buyers will eventually have to buy new; this site where individuals can ask questions; and, everytime someone sees what we have or sees someone playing an Ovation - visibiity and credibility. |
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Posts: 9301
Location: south east Michigan | I have been hard pressed to find a guitar that sounds & play better than my '70 Balladeer. I have loitered in our local GC and "private" stores and played many Ovations and others. ( I not mean the to include the Adamas in these) A couple of times, when I thought I had found something, I have taken my guitar to the store & played them side by side. No contest. I will by my third new Ovation in over 30 years because I want to "plug-in" and take it out of the house.
This thread has taken on kind of a gloom & doom tone. Perhaps for good reason. Looking at the big picture. I don't see guitar music thriving as it has done in the past. Eight out of the top 10 Billboard hits are rap. Guitar music has been mostly driven by youth. I just don't see kids picking up guitars in the numbers they were. Where is the guitar hero that can inspire kids to play?.......In the early seventies I used to have to wait in line for a tennis court....not a problem now.
Brad
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November 2002
Posts: 266
Location: Tampa, Florida | I have bought 1 used and 4 new Ovations in the past. I have since placed them all in the used market. I have just ordered an Adamas W597-CB and am anxiously awaiting its arrival. I might be in the market for another guitar soon, who knows, it may be another Ovation. |
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June 2002
Posts: 863
Location: Central Florida | I bought a BUNCH of new Ovations in the 1970's and '80's. And while I know they're still making top quality guitars today, it's still the older O's I tend to gravitate towards. However, there is, at least for me, one very practical reason why.
I'm a lefty, and the older, non cut-aways with the volume controls over by the neck heel convert over for left-handed playing much better than anything built post-1984. They also hold their intonation remarkably well, even after the coversion process (this is more true of the elect/acoustics than the acoustic only guitars). But, with that said and confession being good for the soul, there is also another, less practical and more intangible reason as well. Call it, "The Vibe Factor"!
It was the Ovation models of the late sixties and seventies that struck my fancy and stole my heart back in the day, and it just gives me immeasurable joy today to own and play some of these guitars that were so much a part of my personal heritage. Every Ovation in my modest collection is either a duplicate of one I owned as a teen/young adult (i.e. GC Artist, Country Atrist), or, one I WANTED but couldn't afford at the time (i.e. Custom Legend, GC 12-string, Preacher Deluxe 12-string).
Don't get me wrong, I'm not declaring I'll never buy another new Ovation. In fact, I know of a new lefty Elite not too far from me that may have my name on it. But while I certainly don't want to feel that I'm being disloyal to Ovation as a company by not buying more new guitars, it is difficult, simply from the viewpoint of a consumer, to think about buying new, when there is so much that can be had in the used market, and usually for about a third the cost of a new one.
Jeff |
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Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | Tony, please don't misquote or misinterpret my comments about the older electronics. For the record: A preamp for a piezo pickup has one vital function, which is impedance matching, all Ovation preamps do that perfectly, everything else is unnecessary. I am happy to own any Ovation with any preamp regardless of age & I own & use everything from from a stacked-knob Fet3 to an Op50. I don't care about the preamp as long it's in a good guitar in the first place. The new pre's are great, my point was that you can buy a guitar with an older pre & achieve the same or better results than current pre's with outboard equipment, but you'll have to buy & understand how to use some pretty sophisticated gear in order to do that.
Slipkid, just because you don't hear guitar-based music on mainstream radio is no indication of it's death, just an indication of the focus of radio. Amazing music is out there, mainstream radio & their sponors just don't give a fuck about it. I own 3000+ cd's, very few of the artists I listen to get played on radio, and they all play acoustic guitars and write great songs. I rarely hear classical music music on the radio but there's an industry out there who supply handmade violins to pro players at $100K a pop. Fuck radio, it's for sheep - the bland leading the blind. Great music is out there, but if you wait for mainstream culture to alert you to it, you'll wait a long time. |
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July 2003
Posts: 1922
Location: Canton (Detroit), MI | I think the observation that the members seem to prefer the older guitars is valid. What is unfortunate is that, for my part, it would take so little for Ovation to sell me a new guitar. I would actually prefer to buy new, especially for a 12-string, as it sounds like 12-strings in general have the tendency to have problems from the extra string tension. If a $700 street price Balladeer 12-string with no cutaway, deep bowl and no pickup existed, it would be here in my living room on a guitar stand right now.
Al, the reason I show no interest in the Adamas is that they are way, way out of my price range. I have played a few at Elderly Instruments---they are not worth one and a half to two times the price for a chord wacker like me!!!! They only sound a tiny bit better than a Balladeer or even my Celebrity. Unfortunately, the lower price Os sound pretty decent if you shop for a good one!!!
My wife was my audience when I played both Adamas 6- and 12-strings along with a Folklore Deluxe, a Balladeer and a Legend---her response was to ask why the Adamas was worth all the money--it didn't sound any better!!!! She thought the Folklore Deluxe sounded the best (gee, deep bowl, no cutaway).
If Ovation benchmarks the other big guitar companies, I hope they note that they keep making their "classic" models and only change colors and minor details. Gibson keeps pumping out those Les Pauls, ES-335s, J-200s, Hummingbirds, Sheratons and Casinos; Fender keeps shipping those Teles and Strats. Very little change from the "classic" years.
I'm interested in seeing what changes are coming for next year's Ovation models. I hope it isn't "change for the sake of change". |
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Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | I'm sorry if you find this offensive, it's not meant to be, but your post reads like "anything I can't afford doesn't sound as good as what I already own"
People who have to make their living from playing guitar usually spend considerable amounts of money on instruments. This increase in cost often produces an improvement in sound which is not necessarily in proportion to the extra dollars and may not be perceivable to the novice and/or untrained ear. However the extra expense provides an instrument that will be stable & reliable, consistent in feel & sound from continent to continent, state to state, trunk to truck to cargo-hold, night after night, show after show. To a pro that is worth every penny. You just don't get that from a cheap guitar. Enjoy your guitars, whatever you choose to own, but let's have a little perspective about price-point. Regardless of what you may believe, when it comes to musical instruments you really do get what you pay for. |
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Posts: 4619
Location: SoCal | Paul, concerning a CL 12-string, you stated:
"There is so much good, affordable outboard processing available these days that the type of electronics in an Ovation is a non-issue. If you find a nice older Ovation with a vol or vol/tone pre, buy it and use an external EQ. The older guitars can be had so cheap the extra expense wont break the bank."
I appreciated your statement and I agreed with it. I took that as a positive statement. My point was the perceived minor improvements (my or another buyer's perception.) From my observation (especially without being able to actualy see and feel the newer models in a guitar store) -- what differences are there that would affect whether I looked for an older model or whether changes would spur me to buy new?
I stated in this topic "(see Paul T's positive comments about the earlier electronics)..." My intent was not to mitigate the improvements in the more recent guitars. However, for an individual such as myself, my need for electronics is simple amplification - a major improvement over the in-hole amplification with a cord hanging down.
For how I use the 1659 or the 6759, either generation of electronics is more than satisfactory. Lots of discussion as to acoustic only - I had an acoustic CL 12, wanted the ability to amplify.
For the former owner of my 6759 and others earning their living performing, I am sure the newer generation electronics are highly valued.
At least for me (an average player), the generation of electronics is not a factor in upgrading to a newer model. Again, the quality is there, the guitars are in great condition (like new,) ability to plug in is there, unplugged sound is there, and eBay makes it so tempting. I commend Ovation for making improvements in all areas but the real question is why or what would influence me to buy new when there are such excellent older models out there. Maybe it goes back to why I bought a '86 Alfa Romeo Veloce Spyder a few years ago v. a newer sports car.
Again, Ovation's past success can affect the present sales negatively... |
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Posts: 1922
Location: Canton (Detroit), MI | Paul,
Your points are well-taken. I understand that a more expensive instrument like the Adamas does have benefits for the professional player. I'm not, and am not going to be(thankfully for the rest of the world). I have to evaluate instruments on their price/performance ratio for my use. On that basis, the Adamas doesn't work for me. If it does for you, and for the others here, that is good. Would I like one? YOU BET. They are beautiful and well-made. But to my ear, the difference is not worth my money. |
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August 2002
Posts: 398
Location: So. Cal. | I cannot believe all the buyers out there spending thousands of dollars on M's and T's are all professional players. We buy because we want to, not necessarily because we need to. In many cases, it is the image, reputation, endorsement and appeal that ultimately decides what sells. If you want an Adamas badly, you'll buy it. Price is a factor but not necessary the deciding factor. It's basic economics: "Opportunity Cost" - the best alternative forgone. I sold my '79 Le gend (bought new in HK in '79) and scraped up all the cash to buy a brand new 1987 LE because I wanted it!
A positive note: I will buy a brand new Ovation/Adamas when it offers something different sound-wise or feature-wise than the current/old crop.
I'l also like to thank all your responese to this thread. It proves we'all DO belong in the same group! |
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May 2002
Posts: 3005
Location: Las Cruces, NM | I think there is a MAJOR misconception here. We are not the market for new Ovations, we already have our Ovations and we belong to this club to discuss what we have. New members join when they buy THEIR Ovation. Occasionally we will buy a new Ovation but maybe not often, remember to join this board we had to already have our Ovation. We certainly like the ones we have and have endless opinions about them, but as a market we don't do to well as we have bought our favorites based on the experience and knowledge we gain from the board. Ovation has to find their market like all manufacturers, when they produce something that we see as superior to what we have already bought then we may buy again. The Elite T was tempting, the Slot Head Adamas is singing siren songs to tempt us to wreck on the shoals of "Do you really need another guitar, dear, after all, the old pickup's passenger door just fell off and my parents are about to kick us out since we had the 4th baby? They think it's strange that you have six $2000 guitars and one $200 pickup."
Bailey :rolleyes: |
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May 2002
Posts: 651
Location: Australia | Well I've been playing O's since 1983 and I'm certain I haven't bought my last new model. (1688 Adamas 12 on the wish list)
The 1687 Adamas I got last year (special order)
is the best O I've ever had my greasy mits on !
I hear people complaining thet the company no longer makes the model they want.
Oh yes they do !!
I couldn't believe it when I first emailed Kaman early last year in the vain hope of getting them to build an old style Adamas and the swift reply was a resounding YES.
Five months later it was mine and the price was pretty fair.
I think Ovation would do better if they combined the classic appearance of the old instruments with their wonderful electronics and concentrated on promoting their acoustic qualities.
Here in Australia, Ovations (USA) are generally percieved as overpriced electric/acoustics that sound pretty good when plugged in but acoustically sound like crap. |
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Bought any brand new Ovation recently?
