|
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7210
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | In reading a recent thread I was thinking about all of the prior conversations about Ovation's marketing. A set of thoughts permiates all of the threads.
- The USA Made line of guitars are fantastic.
- They sell every guitar they make.
- Hardly anyone from the nearly 2000 fanatics here has seen ANY new USA Ovations in stores in recent years and if they do they are poorly displayed.
I wonder if the USA line is actually meeting demand, and is that having a negative backfire supporting some of the myths of the overall name.
Lets face it, why should a store make an "area" for new USA Ovations if they can just order them when they need them. They aren't as popular as T's and M's but if the store makes it known they can get them... they will sell them without having to display them.
I wonder what would happen if in a few markets, like LA Guitar Center, or someone on 49th street (or is it 48th) in NY was a test store and ALWAYS had at least two samples of every current USA Made model on display. This would mean that they would need a few in stock too. But I just wonder.
The bottom line IS the bottom line, as financially Ovation I don't think needs to do this. They currently do just fine, but maybe if people in at least the major markets has a place to see and play Ovations, the fallout "buzz" would bring the notoriety back up and insure the future of Ovation.
I have heard, that in Europe and Asia, and it probably has to do with shipping, tend to have a few Ovations on hand in some stores. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | Finding a decent selection of USA Ovations in the UK is damn near impossible. There is one dealer in London that carries a good range of both USA & imported guitars, but they're owned by the UK distributor, so you'd expect nothing less. Outside of London it's very difficult to find more than one or two new USA Ovations in any store. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 10581
Location: NJ | Interesting question you pose miles.
People are interested in a product because they see if feel it taste it etc. but many "acoustic" stores will not even handle ovations. They have a stigma and have had one and will always have one because of the radical design. Amazingly other companies copy the bowl design and the general public still sees these inferior copies as Ovations. In fact, many here lament the fact that the import line bears the ovation name. want to confuse a cat even more? look into the new import bowls the bowl says made in usa the guitar is made in korea. NOW that is confusing also.
Soon the import line will be clearly distintive from the USA line via construction and that will help but it is only a part of the puzzle. getting guitars out in the hands of player is a bid challenge.
someone mentioned that guitar is just not that popular anymore. True it is easier to sell technics turntables BUT hundreds of thousands of guitars are made every year.....where do they all go???????? |
|
| |
|
Joined:
July 2003
Posts: 1922
Location: Canton (Detroit), MI | I live in the Detroit area---and it is still not easy to find any real selection of Ovation models. I have a Guitar Center 2 miles away and most of the Os they carry are the Celebrities, usually the 255s. If they get a Balladeer 6- or 12-string it is usually gone within a week. And they don't seem to try to keep one around, just whenever they come in. They have a Legend and an Adamas which have been around for several months, but they are kept so high that no one can reach them.
Another MI area music chain carries Ovation, but they also concentrate on the Celebrities. Last time I was there they had a Balladeer 12-string and a Legend, both kept at cloud level so you couldn't see them. I had to ask a clerk what model the 12-string was.
Elderly Instruments in Lansing usually has at least one of every model, but if you don't like the color of the one they have, you end up going elsewhere. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7210
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | "Soon the import line will be clearly distintive from the USA line via construction and that will help but it is only a part of the puzzle. getting guitars out in the hands of player is a bid challenge."
This may be true and may be a good test bed. How long will it be before the average consumer, pro or con, knows about these changes or even cares based on the current myths they believe?
More specifically, will there be any stores where when one goes in... he/she will SEE the guitar and know it's different, or, like is now, a smaller number of people will hear about the changes, and order their guitar, or the guitars that make it to stores will be sold in a few weeks after introduction. Leaving the majority of guitar consumers, maybe even hearing about new things from Ovation... walking into a store and just seeing the same stuff they've seen for the past 10 years hence re-inforceing any neg opinions they may have had.
Again, this is NOT about Ovations ability to sell guitars, but more of a question of should they be making more of them just to maintain or maybe even re-establish or re-inforce the brand name. i.e. How important is visibility?
I would think at some point, the rarity of actually seeing a USA made Ovation guitar is going to have a negative impact. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2003
Posts: 105
Location: San Francisco, CA | Many guitar stores, not just GC, in CA have excellent selection of USA Ovation & Adamas. For example, GC puts Adamas, USA/import Ovation in the big guitar room while Taylor/Martin/Guild are in a small room. Ovation gets much better exposure to the public. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | my perception of the smaller rooms in GC are that they are an advantage, they appear more exclusive and are certainly quiteter, which is a much better environment to evaluate an expensive guitar |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2003
Posts: 105
Location: San Francisco, CA | Paul, you are perceptive indeed :) They get special treatment with a special room. I don't like that. However, it's incorrect to say that people don't see Ovation. At least in N. CA. They are out in the "public" room.
Most customers dare not to walk into the "VIP" room. So it could be a disadvantage, depending how you look at it. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | if I had a few grand to spend and was standing in a room full of "sub-$1K junk" I for one would DEMAND to be let into the "VIP" room. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7210
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Ralph,
Several months back we asked the Ovation Fan Club membership to let us know the stores they could go to and find USA Ovations with some reliability, or consistancy. I think your store was one of the four WORLDWIDE where someone could do that. Now with nearly 2000 members to look, maybe it's time to ask the question again. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
August 2003
Posts: 4619
Location: SoCal | Last week I saw four or five Celeb's in the Guitar Center (San Diego, La Mesa to be exact.) Of course, none in the rooms.
No Ovations or Adamas. This in a very large store with so much guitars and equipment that the eye has difficulty focusing - almost knocked over a Les Paul that was on a stand in the aisle.
Other stores such as those off of El Cajon Blvd (San Diego) had a couple of Celebs that looked like they had been hanging there for some time. They had a stack of brochures but nothing to encourage me to buy. And, the sales reps are not knowlegeable, not encouraged to sell non-stock, don't like Ovation, or don't care - or all of the above. Honestly, I would not go to a San Diego area store to buy a good guitar. I would have to base my buying decision by internet forums such as OFC and then buy internet.
Wish I had a couple of positive suggestions to go with the negative comments. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
July 2003
Posts: 1922
Location: Canton (Detroit), MI | I agree with Paul that the small rooms at Guitar Center are an advantage. The GC here has the "big room/small room" split as mentioned. The Ovation products are in the big room, of course, which comes off as being the "cheap guitar" room; the smaller one appears to be the "expensive guitar" room, with the Martins, Gibsons and Taylors.
However, in the small room, all the guitars can be reached to be played. In the large room, the expensive guitars (including the Adamas and the Legend) are put up high, and can't be accessed without assistance. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2003
Posts: 105
Location: San Francisco, CA | Back to the question - can USA Ovation be found?
The answer is yes, at least in CA & Michigan. I'm sure most, if not all, GC & major stores in the whole country have USA models. That's pretty good. Where can you find Goodall, Breedlove, Collings, Jadis, Mark Levinson, Linn Sondek, Audio Research?
Adamas & Legend are placed above the ground but could be reached as long as you are over 5 feet tall - at least the GC here. You don't expect them to be placed on the floor, do you? |
|
| |
|
Joined:
May 2002
Posts: 3005
Location: Las Cruces, NM | I am in what, I suppose, could be called the boondocks. Between Las Cruces and El Paso we might have 500,000, add Juarez and you jump to 1,500,000 including drug dealers on both sides of the border with $100 bills burning holes in their pockets, maquiladora workers making their first good living, rock and Mexican rock all over the place, Ovations seen in Mexican bands, and do I have a snowball in hell's chance of ever seeing a Slot Head Adamas, hell no. I can find every plywood copy of anything in great numbers, but no top line guitar that I know of unless it is like prohibition where I have to say "Joe sent me." before I am allowed to touch any guitar that sells for more than $150. I blame Musician's Friend.
Bailey :confused: |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7210
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Actually most of the GC stores I have been too, have little if anything of the USA line. That is what prompted the hunt the first time. An occational Elite or Legend, Maybe a Melissa (not all in the same store of course). Sometimes an old dusty USA model hanging up out of reach. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2003
Posts: 299
Location: Netherlands | Miles,
concerning your comment on ovations in Europe, i have the same findings as Paul Templeman. In Holland we have only 3 Ovation dealers which have more than 5 ovations in store.
I think it has to do with a very bad distribution system and artificially high prices. (An adamas SMT which can be imported new from the us for $1600-$1900 inc. import, shipping and taxes retails overhere for about € 2800,-). No wonder no one displays them, they are simply way overpriced!.
It's not the name, My adamas is always received with enthousiasm!
Martin |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 389
Location: RI. That small State out East | Ah, Marketing... Miles I'm the guy at the last OFC tour that made a stink about not being able to find / get "INFO" let alone play a USA Ovation.
Go into a "big" store and say you are wanting to get some info on a USA guitar. You are thinking about a gift for your son. $1,600 is the most I can afford. He has his heart set on an Ovation...
Can you help me.
This is where it gets ugly. Even if they have a few USA models they can't or don't have info. Some will ask right out, does it have to be an Ovation? "The sales rep doesent give us much".
I'm in sales. I travel the US and kill time in some fine stores. I understand inventory. I understand profit margins. I understand part time help.
Just to spice things up. I sometimes find a "nice" guitar. Play it awhile, and ask if they have any info on this guitar so I can show the wife...
Now I know its the job of someone to get the lit out on the shelf. And I know that if you found a closet in back it might have two boxes of lit from 2 years ago...
I don't think we can write off all the poor sales
support as it's hear but we can't find it.
As a sales guy. It's bad. Did anyone ever wounder why on ebay someone is always "selling" Ovation "new" lit.?
Woz. PS. I think it was Cliff who had an idea of the static film stuck to the guitar with all the stats on that guitar. Great idea. It would move inventorty. Dealers would love it. Worth a test market. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | I just got back from a hunt for a set of silk & steel strings. I went to 7 stores in and around Newcastle (the largest city in the north-east of the UK) and finally found the strings. In those 7 stores, 1 of which is a national chain another is a regional chain, there were a total of 5 Ovations on display, all imports. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | What GuitarCenter SHOULD do (or the Kaman Reps who service said stores should DEMAND) is:
Get the fucking ladder out of the stockroom, take the hi-end USA O's/Adamases DOWN from perches where no one can see/play them and put them in the little "private humidor room" alongside the OTHER mfrs' "top-o'-the-line" models.
Let perspective buyers compare apples to apples, instead of putting these guitars at the top of a wall full of Celebrities!
My take on it is that they're trying to alleviate the risk of the 13-year-old zipperheads from taking 'em down off the wall, flailing on 'em and scratching/banging them up.
Put whatever "top end" models they might have in with their peers where the most SERIOUS of shopper is bound to go, see, play, and COMPARE!! |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15654
Location: SoCal | I can get to and play a high end Martin or Taylor easier than an Adamas, at Guitar Centers. That presupposed that they have an Adamas. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | hmmmm . . . . .
That's the SECOND time Mood's used "presupposed" in as many days.
Those "Word-A-Day" desk calendars DO make great Father's Day gifts, don't they? ;) |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15654
Location: SoCal | Presupposed is a legal / technical term used in my profession. Others include "Beat the shit outta.." and "Asshole witness..."
I use these all the time, showing that I am a true professional. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
August 2002
Posts: 398
Location: So. Cal. | Remember the Acura (Honda!) NSX sports car from a few years back. The dealer would put one in a red ribbon area in the showroom. You cannot touch it and let alone test drive one without first signing a legal document! At any time, you can walk into a Mercedes dealer and test drive any of their cars (up to $145k) by just asking. Moody is exactly right, the GC in here Azusa has a D45, D41, 000-28EC and a bunch of expensive (I didn't say good) T's and G's in the small room. All within reach, with an acoustic amp and cable ready to go right there. Ovation USA - outside room - in heaven's reach. I'll stop now before I offend any more people..... |
|
| |
|
Joined:
May 2003
Posts: 4389
Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | Maybe we should start a thread, which I'm sure the ovation people would read, about stores we like and dislike, and the reasons therefore. Citing at least four things, such as how good is the sales help, how accessable the guitars are, price and selection, and any other comments, sort of like a Zagats for stores that sell ovations. For instance, when I was in Hong Kong at a Lee store on Sar Tsim Shui (I know I misspelled it), they had a full selection of Ovations and Adamas and the staff left you alone to play. (Ovation sales staff do something good for them) While the stock was on the open floor and the Taylors were in the private room, it was OK. While when you go to a store on 48th Street, at times, you're treated not like a customer, but like a potential thief and monitored. Umanov's on the other hand, is a great store, though cramped, with a good sales staff but expensive, and no ovations, though they have taks! Why?! Anyway, just a thought, it would be something very informal, be good for us users and for the ovation sales staff. In a general way, we've already done it, because I've seen reviews of stores in NYC, London, Southern CA, and Hong Kong, as well as other places. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
April 2003
Posts: 557
Location: Burbank | I went to a guitar center when I was looking to buy. I was trying to decide between a 1866 12 string Legend and a 6751 12 string Balladeer. The Balladeer is on the the bottom row with the Celebrities and the Legend was on the top with the Adamas'! The first time (with salesman watching) I got on the tips of my toes and removed the legend from the top and brought it down. I played it and put it back. A week later it was moved to the center top with a bunch of cheap line guitars in stands below it so I could no longer reach it. I turned around saw the ladder on wheels, pushed it over went up and got it! What it comes down to is, If you want to try something bad enough you do what you have to to try it. If the dumb-asses at the store make it difficult, then they shouldn't be surprise when I go the extra mile to try what I want! If they don't like it, they're in the wrong business! I didn't drive to, or take time off of work to go to a store and be intimidated by some dick-head salesman who thinks he's Jimmy Page and doesn't really knows what he is talking about or doesn't give rat's ass what you want, but would much rather give you "his" opinion! Sorry, I have a little baggage here and needed to vent, especially after reading Michaels story. As for the High-end Martins in the "special room" they really didn't impress me. Especially the $2000 + price tag! |
|
| |
Are they making as many as they can sell?
