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Location: Richland, Washington | I purchased an Ovation model 1515D Ultra Deluxe (Korean) 12 String off e-bay. I’ve seen many conflicting posts. Some say you “can’t keep it in tune” others say “no problem” (read on because this e-bay one can't be tuned now!). My question actually is does the bridge of this model have three pearl circular inlays on the bridge or did I buy a guitar that had bridge repair? You can see this guitar at:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2567827117&category=47064#ebayphotohosting
Below these inlays are screws that apparently go through this instrument top. It appears that the bridge was splitting and the screws were used as an attempt to hold the bridge together. Anyway this guitar arrived and I let it warm up for 12 hours after shipment, tuned it up and started to play. Sounded good until about 3 minutes later when the bridge let lose and split (thats how I know about the screws).
Anyone with a 1515D have these three pearl circular inlays in the bridge or was this a bridge repair? This lists honest assessment would be appreciated.
Craig |
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Location: Richland, Washington | I just checked the photo section for “12 string” models and noticed that these three inlays are part of many Ovation 12 string bridge (I guess I should have checked first!). For example, Pacemaker 12’s have these three inlays also. So as a follow on question are the 12 string bridged screwed and glued or just screwed? Just wondering if this is worth replacing the bridge and if it's a simple repair?
Craig |
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Location: the BIG Metropolis of TR | Craig,
Bummer - sorry to hear about your 12 string.
The three pearloid "dots" are covers for the screws that Ovation uses on their 12 strings - U.S. and imports! I just bought a '81 USA Ovation Pacemaker 12 string that has the three pearliod dots on the bridge!(I tried to show a pic but couldn't get it to load)
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Did the screws have nuts on the ends when they pulled through? How high did you have the strings tuned? How bad did it tear up the top?
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Mike :confused: |
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Location: Richland, Washington | The screws stayed in place through the bridge. The screws have nuts on the inside of the instrument. I tuned the instrument a standard pitch based on A-440 (e.g. 1st & 2nd E- 329.6 cycles per second (cps), 3rd & 4th B 246.9 cps, 5th G 196 cps, 6 th G 392 cps, …and so on) using a standard tuner. There was no extra tension. I think the bridge was already split/rotted based on wood bridge shavings I later found in the case. Posted a picture of the damage at:
http://www.washingtonhighpower.com/extra/1515D.jpg
(In case you’re wondering about the pick guard in the photo-I think it’s an after-market add on)
Is this bridged glued and screwed or glued only? Is repair worth it? What is best way to repair?
Craig |
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October 2003
Posts: 44
Location: Richland, Washington | Also posted the photo on Member Access, Photo Gallery under the album of ‘WAOvation’
Anyone know if this bridged glued and screwed or glued only? Is repair worth it? What is best way to repair?
Craig |
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Location: the BIG Metropolis of TR | Hey Craig,
There's a nice (USA) 12 string bridge listed on ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2572199440&category=7266
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You might want to email the seller,tell him of your misfortune,make him an offer,and see if he'll end the auction earley to sell to you!!(Or maybe some of the OFC members have a bridge you could use)
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The ebay bridge will have to be routed for the pick-up but that should not be that hard!
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Ovation bridges are both glued and bolted!!
Mike :cool: |
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Location: Central Oregon | Bearing in mind that I've never glued a bridge down, if it was mine I'd get some slow epoxy & try to glue that sucker back on there. Clamp it if you can & wipe away any excess epoxy with a cloth dipped in alcohol. Like I said, I've never glued a bridge before but I've glued *lots* of model airplane parts.
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Location: Richland, Washington | Some very good advice. Thanks for the e-bay bridge link too. I’ve used high strength epoxy in high power rocketry. My concern is that where the two pieces meet you’re going to see it. Also you have to keep those string holes open and there isn’t much wood between the two bridge pieces to hold the parts together. I could try it but I’m leaning toward a new bridge replacement. Anyone know where I can buy a replacement bridge that includes the wider saddle slot for the pickup for a 12 string O? Would the factory sell me a bridge and/or would the factory repair a Korean made ovation?
Thanks again.
Craig |
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Location: Netherlands | Bridges are glued and screwed (yours in particular, forgive me the pun).
Usually you can loosen a bridge by 'melting' the glue. They are normally glued using titebond or hideglue.
Stewmac sells tools you can heat on a stove to warm up the bridge without burning it or damaging the finish around it. I suppose an oldfashioned cast-iron iron for clothes with a towel inbetween would do as well.
Stewmac also sells some handy tools for repositioning a bridge exactly where it should be replaced (rulers, soundhole clamps etc.). You have to get the position exactly right or you'll have intonation problems for the rest of your (or, probably, the guitars) life. I'm not afraid of doing repairs myself, but this one I would ask a luthier to do.
http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tools/Special_tools_for:_Bridges.html
Martin |
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Location: Scotland | The bridge bolts are original. I think the easiset solution would be to speak to the vendor. The bridge in the pic looks fine, so it's possible this is transit damage. If so the vendor may be able to make an insurance claim against the courier to cover the cost of a pro repair, or you could hold out for your money back. |
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Location: Richland, Washington | Thanks to this Board. I'm going to contact Kim Keller or John Budney at the Factory to see what they recommend. Then decide on the course of action. Any futher recommendations are appreciated.
Craig |
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Location: Central Oregon | I would still try to epoxy it back together. Properly done the glue joint will be stronger than the surrounding wood. Alcohol on a Q Tip will clean out the holes. After all, what have you got to lose? :)
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Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire | OK, WAOvation consulted me on my ersatz repair I did on the CC267. Actually, the bridge is affixed with epoxy, right on top of the clearcoat. I made myself a routing template and ground off the broken section, and replaced it with a black walnut piece. I didn't have to mess with the bridge placement, or intonation, using that option. AND, it was glued directly to the spruce top (not sure how essential that is, anyway). The fun part was making the clamp that reached through the bowl to glue on the repair piece. Actually, there's a picture of one in the 2002 Factory Tour gallery. Mine was made of poplar, instead of casted metal and round stock. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know- more guts than brains. So, sue me- I'm cheap. Now, about that 1127 project.......JOHN & KIM!!!!! Is the clearcoat set yet?! |
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Location: Richland, Washington | Nils you have a real spirit of adventure. I guess if I prepped the top and masked everything off the worst I could do was waste time and epoxy. I would need to make some clamps too. Your right that slow cure epoxy is very strong-I know this from my modeling/high power rocket experience). Probably need to do some sanding after it all cured. I would also need to figure out how to keep the string holes cleared out during the gluing (maybe some heavy strings coated with a lubricant?-don’t think I could “drill it” after the fact). I haven’t discounted the idea all together. In fact I thought about your idea, Nils, all last night (wife was wondering why I didn’t sleep well…hehe). I also got an offer from a "shadetree" luthier from this list who has offered to help me and got a quote from Jim Keller at O. Not sure if I want to mess with it myself. One thing I’ve learned is that this list is a GREAT resource. I’ll post what I decide to do and I will post a completed picture when the job is done (like a before and after). Thanks to all again. Craig |
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Location: Richland, Washington | Seesquare, I didn’t mean to insult you and call you a "shadetree" luthier. It was a bad choice of words. Anyone who’s got the guts to tackle a project like an Ovation has got my highest respect. Craig |
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Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire | Craig, don't sweat it! I recall "Shadetree" was my preferred moniker in describing my forays into guitar repair and reconstruction. The Phoenix project is making slow progress at this juncture. "Gutless" is probably not applicable! "Dictionary Breath", however, has been used a couple of times. Good luck with your project, and keep us posted!
Chris |
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Location: Central Oregon | Originally posted by WAOvation:
Nils you have a real spirit of adventure. I guess if I prepped the top and masked everything off the worst I could do was waste time and epoxy. I would need to make some clamps too. Your right that slow cure epoxy is very strong-I know this from my modeling/high power rocket experience). Probably need to do some sanding after it all cured. I would also need to figure out how to keep the string holes cleared out during the gluing (maybe some heavy strings coated with a lubricant?-don’t think I could “drill it” after the fact). I haven’t discounted the idea all together. In fact I thought about your idea, Nils, all last night (wife was wondering why I didn’t sleep well…hehe). I also got an offer from a "shadetree" luthier from this list who has offered to help me and got a quote from Jim Keller at O. Not sure if I want to mess with it myself. One thing I’ve learned is that this list is a GREAT resource. I’ll post what I decide to do and I will post a completed picture when the job is done (like a before and after). Thanks to all again. Craig
I've glued together A LOT of broken airplanes. It's really not that difficult if you have all the pieces. Trial fit the broken part where it used to be. It should be a nearly perfect fit since that's exactly where it came from. Fiddle with it a litte to get it to slide back into position. Sometimes there will be slightly shredded material that will have to be removed to get the outside to fit flush. As long as it's inside the joint & out of sight the epoxy will fill any slight void. If I'm doing non-structural repairs on an airplane & fit the pieces to gether as best I can & hit the joints with "skinny glue". It will wick in there & do a damned good job. For what you're gluing I wouldn't use skinny glue though, you need slow epoxy, at least two-hour. Btw, slow epoxy isn't really any stronger than fast epoxy, it merely has more time to work into the pores of the wood creating a better bond. Don't get carried away with the epoxy, but do be sure you use enough to fill the joint completely. You want as small of an amount as possible to smush out of the joint, but you do want to have enough in there so there is a small excess. If you get a little light with it the first time pull it back apart & add a little more epoxy to the bare spots, you'll be able to see 'em. That's another advantage you have with the slow stuff.
You can also thin it JUST A LITTLE with denatured alcohol (rubbing alcohol) to make it flow a little better. The alcohol will evaporate before the glue starts to set & won't effect the strength of the bond, but it will let the glue flow better. Clean up as much excess as you possibly can with alcohol on a rag. You should be able to remove nearly all of it. Clear the holes with a Q Tip dipped in alcohol. If that doesn't get it all, have some heavy cotton string on hand to dip in alcohol & pull through there. Glue, clamp, clean excess, un-clamp, clean more & re-clamp. Repeat as necessary, with slow epoxy you have time. The alcohol shouldn't harm the finish of your guitar either if you get a little carried away & have to clean off some epoxy. (It will remove any wax you have on there though.) You can get it off as long as it hasn't really started to cure. Sometimes you have to scrub a while. Use a soft cloth & plenty of alcohol. Hell have a few belts of the drinkable kind for yourself, it will calm your nerves :) Once you get it final glued & clamped leave it alone for 10-15 minutes, then go back & check to make sure the clamped epoxy hasn't allowed the piece to slide out of position. Epoxy is notorious for skating around a bit under pressure, (kinda like some of our politicians) especially if you can't get a perfectly straight clamp job. That reminds me- you might have to find a little piece of wood & shape it to fit over the broken part so you can clamp the entire part as evenly as possible. Put several layers of waxed paper between the block & the bridge so you don't accidently glue them together. It will also pad the wood a tad.
I like seesquare's suggestion. That would be another good way to go if you have the equipment to do it. However, I'd try gluing what you have first. If it doesn't work you're no worse off than you are now & seesquare's method will still be an option.
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Location: Richland, Washington | Nils - Thanks for "gluing words of encouragement." TBC Craig |
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1515D Ultra Deluxe 12 String Bridge Disaster
