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Location: Yucaipa, California | Maybe I'm just slow (ok remove the "maybe"), but does anyone have a valid explanation for why there seems to be so many Ovations for sale on Ebay et al in comparison to the other brands? Are people "dumping" their O's for the more currently popular guitars? :confused:
Watching the Ebay sales, it appears that you could have just about ANY Ovation you want for a song (too bad I can't sing, else I'd have an Adamas!).
Just Wondering as I Wander (Merry Christmas!)
tim |
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Location: SoCal | There are tons of Martins and Taylors for sale (or at least there were the last time I looked), as well as Fender and Gibsons electrics.
Ovation has been around for almost 40 years. There are a lot of Ovatons out there.
As I look thru them, it appears that the bulk of the Ovations for sale are the Korean models. Is it possible that people buy them thinking they are getting a USA built guitar, then selling them on ebay? Ovation really needs to label a Celebrity, well, a Celebrity. |
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Location: Netherlands | I think there is a reverse causality between the contents of my wallet and the increase in the number of available Ovations on eBay.
When they're there I'm out of money.
When i'm not, they're not there.
Martin :cool: |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Not only has Ovation been around for almost 40 years, but they have been building realistically affordable guitars in every price range almost from inception. By this I mean, they never had an over $5000 retail value guitar that I know of. Most have been in the under $2000 range, but starting at only $300.00. Also, I would guess there are 1000's of import models hitting the streets every month for quite some time. Add all of this to the fact that there are dealers who primarily sell new imports on ebay and may have 10-20 guitars listed at any given time.
This is consistant to the line on our opening page about Ovations not getting the respect they deserve. How many other manufaturers can claim being in production at this volume level for nearly 40 years and remained basically the same company. Actually I wonder if even Traiylor is currently making anywhere near the same number of guitars as Ovation.
With the opening of Guitar Centers and such everywhere, the production numbers I assume are going up, not down (just a guess). At this rate, shouldn't Ovation guitars be considered the "standard" or "staple" guitar. It's a little funny because with the number of guitars being sold, you'd think we'd see more of them in public places, in the media, with artists etc. etc. etc.. As was mentioned at the Factory Tour, "somebody is buying them." |
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Location: Yucaipa, California | Miles,
I agree with your comments, but if "someone is buying them" and they most certainly are, why are they selling them? Is it just the average "comsumer product shift" we engage in? Or are we basically jaded consumers always wanting the "new and exciting"?
curiouser and curiouser!
tim |
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Location: Minden, Nebraska | This is the time of year merchants are selling their holiday stock, and that is one reason there are simply more guitars on eBay, period. It will slow down in January. |
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Location: Tennessee | Interesting thread. I did a quick search on eBay and here's what I found ...
Ovation Guitar -- 146 items
Taylor Guitar -- 158 items
Martin Guitar -- 544 items
Hmmmm ... I know there are things that are not actual guitars that show up in the item count, but on the (unfounded) assumption that there might be a fairly even distribution of these items, there are actually less Ovations for sale than the other makes. Furthering the thread, if we take out the Korean models, there are very few "real" Ovations relative to the other makes. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | I just did a rough search on ebay and I would conclude that the number of Ovations up for auction is not out of line with other brands. You need to take into account the relative market share, the age of the companies, etc. Ther are a lot less Ovations (35 year company) than Martins (150 year old company). But a lot more Ovations that Taylor, etc. You can't conclude that people are dumping their Ovations to switch to Taylor or anything else.
Another thing to consider is the number of "New" Ovations up for auction. There seems to be a lot of "virtual" Ovation dealers selling on eBay. More so than Martin or Taylor from what I can see. Maybe this has something to do with Ovations dealer agreement details and you could argue weather it's a good thing or not. But that does seems to be the case based on what I see.
Additionally, bear in mind that the vast majority of all Ovations out there (USA and imports) were purchased NEW in the $500-$1000 range over the last 35 years. I would argue that in thsi price range, the guitars have less "sentimental" value and frankly people may not be so attached to them that they would never part with them for something new (Ovation or other). I would classify this price range as "portable" meaning that owners would be more open to selling off their Ovation in favor of something else or something newer.
Lastly, I would make the point that (in my own opinion), there is a return to the more traditional type wood and box guitars. Just look at what's out there in the public eye played by touring and recording professionals - Taylors, Martins, etc. I think Ovation has gotten all the life they can out of trying to have a "co-hesive" product line. And multi-soundhole, supershallow, 12 band EQ, glow in the dark guitars are not in line with this return to traditional "roots". I think it is time for Ovation to clearly divide into 2 seperate product lines. One for the new non-traditional stuff (like the Tangent, MOB, Elites and all that) and another for the return to traditionalism, with such examples as deep bowls, non-cutaways, the Folklore deluxe, the GC re-issue, etc.
Ovation is anything but dead. And don't be mislead that people are ebay'ing off their Ovations collections to buy other brands. Sure some of that will happen, but it's no different than any other brand. Another thing to consider is the economic times of recent. This effects all brands, and I for one can say that I own less guitars now than I did two years ago because of the economy - simple as that.
Dave |
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Location: Yucaipa, California | See! I told you I was dense!
It must be that now that my eyes and ears are attuned to the "Ovation" sight/sound, I just naturally notice them! Should have guessed... another Senior moment!
tim |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | I was pretty far off as I did not check eBay myself. Dave I think you hit it on the money (so to speak).
I think your point about "protable" value is dead on. I will never sell my Medallion because it was the first guitar I bought with my own money. If it was all of a sudden worth $1000, I still don't think I could bring myself to sell it. The rest of my collection was created primarily to get pictures of all of the guitar styles (solidbody and storm) by Ovation for my website. I am only interested in playing about 3 of the 100ish guitars I have.
Actually based on the figures being consistant with how long the companies have been around, and adding in the factor that Ovation makes more guitars than most of them I think (maybe I'm wrong on this too)... it would seem that Ovation folks at large, sell their instruments MUCH LESS than any of the other manufactures.
Simply put, althogh Martin has been around for 150 years, how many Martins are on earth at this time compared to Ovations. How many Taylors. This would be a fun figure to look at. |
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Location: Tennessee | Another fast troll through the eBay listings ... I count 91 Taylors, and 49 Ovations (USA guitars only ... no Celebs, Applause, but including Magnums, Vipers, Preachers, etc.).
So it would be good to know relative production levels ... perhaps it is the Taylors that are the "portable" guitars, not USA Ovations. Or perhaps in these economic times, the Taylors have the value and that's why their being sold by their owners. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Why not include celeb and applause in the count? Are all Taylors and Martins made in the USA? I really don't know. I thought maybe some of their cheapies cane from overseas. I checked the Taylor website and it does not say. But it was interesting to see that they have been in bueiness only a few years less than Ovation. I didn't know they existed back in the early 70's.
By the way, their website is very, very nice. Dave |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | I found some interesting numbers..
From a fairly reliable source Ovation is up to serial range 580,000 which of course doesn't include the imports and solidbodies and such, but Martin, which has been around 3 times as long, is only up to 916,759 guitars. I couldn't figure out Talors numbers as they are "Date" based. I'm not sure what this means, but it seemed interesting. Based on the above, it would seem there are many more roundback guitars out there in the world than box shaped ones, even if the import to usa production was only one-to-one which we know it isn't. |
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Location: San Francisco, CA | Ovation vs Taylor is similar to Chevrolet vs Mercedes
Different customer/market segment, price range ... |
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Location: Tennessee | I excluded the Celebs and Applause from the count because (to the best of my knowledge) Taylor does not have a low-end, offshore component. The guitars in eBay all seem to start in the high hundreds and get to four figures very quickly. I wanted to look at an apples-to-apples comparison. Full counts of the Ovation would probably be more appropriate if we wanted to compare to Martin, since they do offer up a line of lower end guitars. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | I'll hold myself back from responding ...
Cliff, Paul, CWK2, Moody, Al, Miles, Sam, et. el - grab on to me NOW ... hold me back ... this is ... going ... to be ... tough .....
Dave |
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Location: south east Michigan | Mr. Ovation:
You have "One hundred-ish guitars"? Wow.
Brad
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | I noticed on Martins site the only low-end guitars were in the $970 retail range and Talors low end was in the $700 range. I could not find a reference to any imports on either site.
Slipkid (and anyone else who is bored)..
http://www.BaronAudio.com/collection
I really need to update this list as several have come and gone, but it's about 90% accurate. |
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Location: Minden, Nebraska | I am not convinced by that analogy, tho I understand the point -- especially if it is in regard to perceptions.
Personally, I have owned several very nice Taylors, Martins, and Guilds. (I have four Guilds right now, and played them exclusively for many years before switching to Ovations.)
The reason I continue to play Ovations on stage is that I personally prefer the necks, the shallow bodies, the electronics, and the fact that I don't worry that much about leaving my guitars sitting out on the platform.
I can afford just about any Taylor I might want, but I just don't want one. I play an Ovation because I much prefer it for the job at hand. Maybe it is more analogous to my Subaru Outback....
Sorry if this turned into a bit of a rant. Back to the point: I suspect that most of the Taylor shoppers on eBay don't consider that they could have two very nice USA Ovations for the price of one Taylor that isn't necessarily any better a guitar than either one of them. Same can be said for PRS and Hamer guitars. I think I would rather have two Fords than one Mercedes...... Well, maybe not. :-) |
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Location: SoCal | I'm not thrilled with the Chevy v Ford v Mercedes comparison. I've played my 1537 Elite next to Taylors, Martins, etc, and it's not a Chevy v. Mercedes comparison. My Elite is not a "poor cousin" to any other guitar.
Maybe it should be Lexus v. Mercedes. The Benz has the cache, but in every review I've ever read, the Lexus comes out as the better car for less money. |
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Location: San Francisco, CA | Chevy is part of GM; Ovation is part of Kaman.
Don't forget Corvette is Chevy. It can outperform Mercedes SL500 in many areas. |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Comparisons on any kind are a bit subjective. I think one thing this thread has proven is that the number of guitars offered on eBay at any particular time doesn't mean much. Even how much they sell for is only a guide at any moment for ones mood or interest.
What this thread has done for me is get me thinking about how many round-back guitars are out there in the wild compared to anything else.
Sure like anything else there are some better quality ones than others, but most are pretty good and at least consistant with thier price.
I guess what I'm getting at is that if there are more round-back guitars in general in the wild from one manufacturer than there are of "box" guitars from others, why is the "box" still the standard? Depending on the ratio of imports made vs usa production numbers... at only 3 to 1, it would seem there are more roundbacks then any other acoustic guitar. I may be way off, I'm just curious about it and never thought of it in global terms. Could explain why in two years we have nearly 2000 members, still taking on about 100+ new members each month. I can't even find fan clubs for the other manufactures. |
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Location: south east Michigan | Mr.Ovation:
(pardon the brief off topic)
I enjoyed your website, especially the Breadwinners. I have an White one, (ser#906). A pic is in my album. I remember being 18 years old and having to choose between white or blue.
Brad. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Miles,
I have serious doubts that Ovation roundback guitars command > 50% of the market for all acoustic guitars. There are TONS of Ibenez, Fender, Yamaha, etc, etc,. I would guess maybe the boxes outnumber the roundbacks 10 to 1. Rick Hall would (should) know for sure, or Dubbya-2. I mean just think of the ratio of guitars you see in the big shops, on stage, in print ads. This has to be an indication of the market share. Maybe I'm way off, but man 50% market share in guitars is HUGE!
Dave |
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Location: Canton (Detroit), MI | Going back a few posts....my take on why there are so many Celebrities on eBay is that they are the entry level Ovation. So....if a person buys a Celebrity and decides he likes playing, he'll sell it and move up to a U.S. Ovation (hopefully), or a nicer guitar of another brand. If he doesn't like playing, he will sell the guitar to get some money out of it and move on to something else.
Add the "virtual dealers" selling entry-level stuff to bargain shoppers, and that explains it for me. |
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Plethora of Ovations for sale?
