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Behringer Acoustic Amp

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JohnnyMac
Posted 2003-11-15 11:23 PM (#201036)
Subject: Behringer Acoustic Amp


Joined:
February 2003
Posts: 99

Location: St. Petersburg, FL USA
Hi, all. Long time no post. I really need to spend more time here. Anyway, I was wondering if some of you guys could weigh-in with opinions on the Behringer Ultracoustic ACX1000 amp. I had the pleasure of playing with one today at a local music store and promptly decided I needed to re-think my plans on procuring a Crate. The Behringer is less than half the price, with better specs than the 125D (unless I'm really missing something). It also has a VU meter which I thought was pretty cool & retro. In fact, I thought it was an old amp at first glance! But the sound was incredible IMHO. Thanks for any thoughts. I'm going back there next Saturday with my Ovation to see how she likes it.

John
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Paul Templeman
Posted 2003-11-16 6:31 AM (#201037 - in reply to #201036)
Subject: Re: Behringer Acoustic Amp


Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 5750

Location: Scotland
I'm a big fan a Behringer gear, most of it is good value, sounds great and works pretty well. In my experience all of their amps are good value, have tons of cool features but sound pretty weak. The bass & acoustic amps especially. I borrowed one of these a while ago when my own acoustic amp was in for repair. I thought it was underpowered and gutless & I found it dificult to achieve a clean, uncoloured sound. My recommendation would be to ignore all the bells & whistles on the Behringer amp and listen to it's basic acoustic sound with all controls on the amp & guitar set flat and the effects off, then compare it to other amps set the same way. Also, and this can be difficult, turn up the volume rather than checking it at polite "store" level. If the basic sound doesn't do it for you look eleswhere.
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Mr. Ovation
Posted 2003-11-16 10:30 AM (#201038 - in reply to #201036)
Subject: Re: Behringer Acoustic Amp


Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7209

Location: The Great Pacific Northwest
I agree with Paul on this, and if you check my studio at http://www.baronaudio.com you will see I have a ton of Behringer gear, I'm one of their biggest fans, but I was just not impressed with the smaller guitar amps. I'd like to check out their "stack" and bigger combos sometime, but I have heard the smaller ones.

They are nice amps for the price, but there are other nice amps for that price that just sound better to my ears.
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JohnnyMac
Posted 2003-11-16 6:34 PM (#201039 - in reply to #201036)
Subject: Re: Behringer Acoustic Amp


Joined:
February 2003
Posts: 99

Location: St. Petersburg, FL USA
Thanks for the insight. What, then, is impressive in the $300 or so range?
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Paul Templeman
Posted 2003-11-16 6:42 PM (#201040 - in reply to #201036)
Subject: Re: Behringer Acoustic Amp


Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 5750

Location: Scotland
Not much, at that price I would recommend you forget buying new and look at used gear.
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xnoel
Posted 2003-11-16 9:41 PM (#201041 - in reply to #201036)
Subject: Re: Behringer Acoustic Amp


Joined:
September 2003
Posts: 782

Location: Waurika OK
John,

You might check out some of the amp discussions here on the fan club. I was also looking to buy an acoustic amp. There is some good info here. I was looking in a used guitar shop. The guy there had Kustom, Washburn, a Trace Elliot which seems to be very popular with fan club members. He also had an Ultrasound amp. He was really high on it. It was the 50 watt single channel model. I wanted one with at least two channels, one for guitar and the other for vocals. Ultrasound makes a model like that the AG50DS2. Lists for $494, too much for me, found a couple for $479/469 on the web.
I started searching eBay and found a couple. I bid on one and got it for $316. When it arrived, it was in unused condition, just like new! I noticed a more used one has been listed for around $250. Of course buying on the net has some risk.
I really like my amp. Don't want a lot of effects even though it has the Alesis system. Check out their web site.

Noel
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breeze2u
Posted 2003-11-16 11:05 PM (#201042 - in reply to #201036)
Subject: Re: Behringer Acoustic Amp


Joined:
November 2003
Posts: 14

Location: Indiana
I've had a few minor glitches with my Trace Elliot, but for pure sound reproduction, you can't beat 'em.
They can be bought for $350-400 sometimes on Ebay (where mine came from) TA60. I use it in front of a 5-piece praise and worship band and it cranks! I only mic it about half the time depending on the room.
My 2 pennies.

Breeze :cool:
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JohnnyMac
Posted 2003-11-17 10:38 AM (#201043 - in reply to #201036)
Subject: Re: Behringer Acoustic Amp


Joined:
February 2003
Posts: 99

Location: St. Petersburg, FL USA
Is there some "standard" acoustuic amp that you guys agree would be a good reference point? That way I could hear an "ideal" amp & work down from there if I want?

What makes it frustrating for a guy like me, who is very much at the beginning of this process, is that I go into the music store, hear the Behringer which sounds SOOO good there, and then find out from people whose opinions I very much respect that there is so much better stuff out there, possibly for the same dollars or close. So I'm going to do like Paul says & bring in MY guitar & try them all. Another factor may be that what is "small" to some of you guys is "big" to me.

I will search some more thru past threads. I started to do that last night & gave up after my PC locked up :mad: Diong research while t-shooting your computer just doesn't work.

I guess what I'm after is an amp that will take my guitar, a mic, and a second guitar (probably rarely, but it would be nice to have the ability)for use both on our small church stage (the room has a decent sound system & I usually play with bass, drummer, & keys) and small venues like a meeting room or someone's living room, small outdoor gatherings, etc. Probably a lot like what Breeze is doing.

Thanks again for the comments. It all helps.

John
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Paul Templeman
Posted 2003-11-17 12:04 PM (#201044 - in reply to #201036)
Subject: Re: Behringer Acoustic Amp


Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 5750

Location: Scotland
John, If you can find a Trace Elliot check one out, now that they are in production again. I personally don't like them, but they are a very good amp and would be a useful benchmark. Other amps that I think sound good & would be happy to use include AER (Look for the Compact 60) Ashdown Radiators & SWR. I haven't tried a Genz-Benz but have heard good things. None of the amps I've mentioned are in your price range new, but you could get lucky & find them used on ebay

If you are trying the amps in a store, set the amp flat, use a little reverb but no other effects. Turn up the master volume to create some headroom and get the amp past polite "store" volume, (don't stand right on top of it, you want to see if it projects) Then try to get a happening tone just with the guitar's EQ.
If you can't, and/or the low strings make the speakers fart, leave it alone and try something else.
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JohnnyMac
Posted 2003-11-17 1:31 PM (#201045 - in reply to #201036)
Subject: Re: Behringer Acoustic Amp


Joined:
February 2003
Posts: 99

Location: St. Petersburg, FL USA
Paul, et al, thanks so much for all the info! I finally have spent the whole morning going thru all the previous posts on this topic (searched on "acoustic amp")and now have more info than I thought I ever could have had for the asking. At least I've got a fighting chance now.

Another thing I have always been curious about is this: After you hook up to a sound system, do you guys have someone else play your guitar while you go out & listen? Otherwise, how do you know what the thing sounds like?
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Paul Templeman
Posted 2003-11-17 2:15 PM (#201046 - in reply to #201036)
Subject: Re: Behringer Acoustic Amp


Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 5750

Location: Scotland
That wouldn't work, the players individual touch has a huge effect on the sound, so somebody else playing you guitar wouldn't be "your" sound. Go out front with a long cord or a wireless. After a while experience tells you if it's right or wrong. I always ask the engineer to kill the monitors at the end of a soundcheck, so I can listen to the FOH only
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JohnnyMac
Posted 2003-11-17 6:07 PM (#201047 - in reply to #201036)
Subject: Re: Behringer Acoustic Amp


Joined:
February 2003
Posts: 99

Location: St. Petersburg, FL USA
Good point, a 50' cable would easily get me to the sweet spot in our little building.
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Paul Templeman
Posted 2003-11-17 6:33 PM (#201048 - in reply to #201036)
Subject: Re: Behringer Acoustic Amp


Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 5750

Location: Scotland
I was thinking more like 3 or 4 metres. If you intend to run a cord as long as 50' it would be better to use a short guitar cord into a DI box on a long balanced cable.
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JohnnyMac
Posted 2003-11-17 7:17 PM (#201049 - in reply to #201036)
Subject: Re: Behringer Acoustic Amp


Joined:
February 2003
Posts: 99

Location: St. Petersburg, FL USA
In that case the 25' 1/4" line I use will be plenty long enough to just step down, walk out a bit, & check it out. Thanks.
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Tim in Yucaipa
Posted 2003-11-18 8:40 AM (#201050 - in reply to #201036)
Subject: Re: Behringer Acoustic Amp


Joined:
August 2003
Posts: 2246

Location: Yucaipa, California
JohnnyMac,

I purchased a Crate Acoustic amp (1-10") I can't remember the model # but the only thing I can say that I feel they did right is the name! It is a crate! I have tried every concievable setting change and all my guitars still sound either tinny or squackky through it. I now only use it to play my 6-string banjo (no one noticed the sound nuances of a banjo anyway) and I play ALL my Ovations through my old Rickenbacher studio amp (also 1-10") it can give me that warm wooden sound that I never found with the Crate. Using the "Ricky" the Ovations sound like acoustic guitars, only louder.

I have a friend who has the Behringer and he likes it quite a bit but found that there were soooooo many settings to try, that it was quite confusing!

Whatever happened to volume and tone controls ONLY? Life would be so much simpler!

tim
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alpep
Posted 2003-11-18 8:45 AM (#201051 - in reply to #201036)
Subject: Re: Behringer Acoustic Amp


Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 10581

Location: NJ
behringer has shady business practices IMHO. The gear is chaep. If you want cheap that is what you get.
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JohnnyMac
Posted 2003-11-18 9:03 PM (#201052 - in reply to #201036)
Subject: Re: Behringer Acoustic Amp


Joined:
February 2003
Posts: 99

Location: St. Petersburg, FL USA
Thanks, Al & Tim. I plan to stop in on Saturday with my O & try everything there. Will post with results.
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breeze2u
Posted 2003-11-18 9:29 PM (#201053 - in reply to #201036)
Subject: Re: Behringer Acoustic Amp


Joined:
November 2003
Posts: 14

Location: Indiana
JohnnyMac,
Another thing to consider is an inexpensive PA setup. The Fender Passport is a good system (Peavey makes something just like it).
What you are probably looking for is exact sound reproduction. Listen for something that will sound just like your guitar UNplugged when you turn it up. It sounds like you need at least a 2 channel, 50 or 60 watter. Don't get caught up on bells and whistles. All amps will have small differences, but the main thing is what sounds good to you. Clarity, punch and no noise is what I like.
I also like to go to HarmonyCentral.com and read reveiws before I buy something that expensive.
Also, try this URL
http://www.acousticguitar.com/Gear/
There is a couple articles on amps.
Good luck and have fun!

Breeze
:confused:
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75balladeer
Posted 2003-11-18 9:38 PM (#201054 - in reply to #201036)
Subject: Re: Behringer Acoustic Amp


Joined:
July 2002
Posts: 13

Location: Maine
The Trace Acoustic was one of the first "real" acoustic amps on the market. The Fishman was there early on, followed by the Crate, which was basically a rip-off of the Trace. Cheaper, but definitely "cheaper". If you can find a used TA50 or TA100 with the Alesis chip, you will have found yourself an exceptionally Hi-Fi amp. The Trace amps were built with an error correction circuitry that compared input to output signals. I rarely see these amps in stores used (and I am in many), so that must say something to their quality and their desirability among their owners. I have had occasion to try some of the newer (Gibson) amps, and they aren't nearly what the original was. Different effects chip, control changes, and the cabinet and grille looked slightly different. A couple of weeks ago I tried the Behringer in an A/B against a Fender Acoustasonic Jr. First we (store salesman) and I tried the Fender. Dialed it in, sounded very good. Plugged into the Behringer. Initially, I said to myself "Wow!" We played it some more, and you know what? With more playing the sound began to seem really "brittle" and "processed". I will say at this point that sound quality is a very subjective thing, but plugging back into the Fender, both of us agreed that the sound was much more realistic and pleasing. I will also note that setting up the amp is important for an accurate comparison. It is crucial to adjust the input gain properly, most amps will have a "clip" light on the input stage. Plug the guitar in, turn up the guitar preamp volume all the way, play like you would normally, and then adjust the preamp section till that clip light just starts to blink. Turn your guitar preamp volume down, adjust the master volume on the amp, and then adjust the guitar to suit. Incidentally, you'll find just how loud the usable volume of each amp is after this little exercise. Have fun trying them out. You'll become expert in very short order!
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45flint
Posted 2003-11-19 5:42 PM (#201055 - in reply to #201036)
Subject: Re: Behringer Acoustic Amp


Joined:
March 2003
Posts: 555

Location: Wooster, Ohio
I just purchased a Genz-Benz Shenandoah 200. I did it sight unseen because I heard so many good reviews and their was noone close that sold them. They are a one man PA system. The guitar is natural and I can put voice on the other channel and it is awesome. Separate digital effects on each channel. A lot of power with 100 watts on each stereo channel. I always had a problem with my A string vibrating and feeding back on other amps. This has a botton to push which changes phase and killed the feed back. They are not cheap but it is probably more reasonable than the Trace and you can buy it new. I doubt the Trace could have the bass and power of this amp. I think Ovation knew what they were doing when they bought this company.
Steve Kitchen
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JohnnyMac
Posted 2003-11-19 9:11 PM (#201056 - in reply to #201036)
Subject: Re: Behringer Acoustic Amp


Joined:
February 2003
Posts: 99

Location: St. Petersburg, FL USA
I think that is the exact amp that was next to the Behringer. Now I'm really curious to see how I hear the differences between them this weekend. Thanks, Steve.
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JohnnyMac
Posted 2003-11-23 12:03 AM (#201057 - in reply to #201036)
Subject: Re: Behringer Acoustic Amp


Joined:
February 2003
Posts: 99

Location: St. Petersburg, FL USA
Went back to the store today with my '83 1612. Played with the Genz-Benz Shenandoah Stereo Delux 200 vs. the Behringer. Of course, no contest. The Shenandoah is absolutely awesome. I think what happened last week is that it had been a long time since I plugged into an acoustic amp & the first thing I heard naturally sounded better than reality. I do think the Behringer is fantastic for the price, and as long as the room isn't too big, would be perfect for small gatherings. It has a nice set of effects. I tried reverb, then added chorus & then a hint of delay. Pretty good sound, really. It seems very faithful to the midrange & highs. Struggles to produce a solid low-end. I was surprised at how high (7) I had to dial up the master to get it to crank. Paul T. was right.

Thanks Steve K. & 75balladeer for the input. I went back & forth between the two for a while & learned a lot. He has two smaller Shenandoahs right there which I didn't have enough time to try (but I will next week). It is fun to go thru this process. I hope I know enough tunes so I don't drive people crazy in the process!!

John
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Paul Templeman
Posted 2003-11-23 5:36 AM (#201058 - in reply to #201036)
Subject: Re: Behringer Acoustic Amp


Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 5750

Location: Scotland
Johnny, the best way to use any acoustic amp, PA system, keyboard amp or anything where a clean, distortion-free sound is needed, is to run the master volume up full & control the output from the input gain & guitar preamp volume. This prevents the power stage being clipped by the input.
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JohnnyMac
Posted 2003-11-23 9:15 AM (#201059 - in reply to #201036)
Subject: Re: Behringer Acoustic Amp


Joined:
February 2003
Posts: 99

Location: St. Petersburg, FL USA
That's interesting to me. I always thought turning up the master somewhere beyond 60 % or so would introduce extra noise.
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play4fun
Posted 2003-11-23 9:36 AM (#201060 - in reply to #201036)
Subject: Re: Behringer Acoustic Amp


Joined:
November 2003
Posts: 76

Location: LewistownPA
I thought it was the other way around;send a strong signal from the guitar and set volume at the amp..I'll have to try it that way and compare... :confused:
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