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A couple of FD-14 questions

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Mark1960
Posted 2003-11-17 9:51 AM (#200952)
Subject: A couple of FD-14 questions


Joined:
September 2003
Posts: 171

Location: Indiana
I know that the nut width on these is 1 3/4" but I was wondering if Dave or anyone else who may know could tell me how much wider the string spacing at the saddle is?

My second question...why aren't these selling? I've watched their price creep slowly down as they go unsold on ebay and I know where there are four of them (out of 50, that seems like a lot to still be unsold as I am sure there are a few more out there too). Are people afraid of the soft tops? Lowden makes high quality cedar top guitars that sell used for 2 and 3 times as much. They also make use of a 5 piece neck and have a reputation for being very playable. While some may not put them in the same class, the FD-14 seems like a great guitar for a fingerstylist. I know they are not suited for some styles of heavier play. They look like a great blend of old world style and craftsmanship in a modern guitar complete with invisible electronics. They look like a good value at the prices they are reaching and I am sure can be bought for less. I was just wondering why there doesn't seem to be much interest in them...any thoughts?
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Standingovation
Posted 2003-11-17 10:56 AM (#200953 - in reply to #200952)
Subject: Re: A couple of FD-14 questions



Joined:
June 2002
Posts: 6191

Location: Phoenix AZ
Hi Mark,

I'll measure the string spacing at the bridge and let you know. As far as why they are not selling, I'm just as puzzled as you. I've seen one go for as low as $690. What a steal at that price. The style doesn't appeal to everyone, that's for sure, but nor should it. And I guess there are a large number of acoustic players who really aren't too concerned about the acoustic sound. Their priority is how it plays on stage or maybe just the "name" or to be seen playing whatever so and so plays. Yes, the cedar top could be more prine to wear, but I doubt most people take that into account.

But I would bet that those who walk away from the FD-14 don't do so saying they don't like the way it sounds. The guitar missed the mark based on something else - NOT the sound. As far as I'm concerned it's a finger pickers dream (even though I really don't fingerpick). But it also kicks butt just as a full bodied wonderful acoustic instrument.

An interesting comparison is the approx. 25 of them that went to Asia. Unlike to the 25 in the US which seem to have a hard time finding a home (except for mine, of course), in Asia they sold immediately and you can't find one anywhere even though people are asking for them. I learned this from a shop owner in Tokyo, via a work colleague of mine who lives there.

Who else on this board has one and can they comment about how they like it? I would guess with the price point where it is that someone around here has picked one up recently.

Dave
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Mark1960
Posted 2003-11-17 11:07 AM (#200954 - in reply to #200952)
Subject: Re: A couple of FD-14 questions


Joined:
September 2003
Posts: 171

Location: Indiana
Thanks for the feedback, Dave. I know at least one person on the board who may be buying one before XMAS if things work out ;)
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Standingovation
Posted 2003-11-17 10:36 PM (#200955 - in reply to #200952)
Subject: Re: A couple of FD-14 questions



Joined:
June 2002
Posts: 6191

Location: Phoenix AZ
Mark,

This is extremely interestng. According to the factory, they only have one width of 6 string bridge and saddle for steel string guitars. So a "thin neck" like a Legend and a "wide neck" like a Folklore have exactly the same string spacing at the bridge. I found this hard to believe, so used a digital caliper and made measurements of some of my guitars:

Folkore Deluxe FD-14:
Neck width at nut = 1-3/4, width at 12th fret = 2-3/16.
String width at 1st fret = 1-9/16, 12th fret = 1-13/16, bridge = 2-3/16.

Custom Legend:
Neck width at nut = 1-11/16, width at 12th fret = 2-1/16.
String width at 1st fret = 1-7/16, 12th fret = 1-13/16, bridge = 2-3/16.

Adamas:
Neck width at nut = 1-11/16, width at 12th fret = 2-1/16.
String width at 1st fret = 1-7/16, 12th fret = 1-13/16, bridge = 2-3/16.

So, low and behold the string spacing at the bridge is exactly the same on all of them.

Dave

PS - I still can't think of a guitar I would recommend any more than the FD-14. Hope Santa thinks you were a good little boy.
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Bailey
Posted 2003-11-18 1:07 AM (#200956 - in reply to #200952)
Subject: Re: A couple of FD-14 questions


Joined:
May 2002
Posts: 3005

Location: Las Cruces, NM
Just an opinion for what it's worth. The Folklore Deluxe should be held on to if you have one as it may one day be considered a rare instrument. I think the problem of present acceptance is the lack of an Ovation reputation as a nylon string guitar source, even though they had good ones years ago in the early days as demonstrated by the Good Time Hour pickers such as Jerry Reed. As an example, have any of you bought a Gibson nylon string recently, have you even seen one?

Those looking for a classical guitar may not look to Ovation even though the Folklore is a great guitar.

Bailey
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Ralph
Posted 2003-11-18 1:31 AM (#200957 - in reply to #200952)
Subject: Re: A couple of FD-14 questions


Joined:
January 2003
Posts: 105

Location: San Francisco, CA
Folklore Deluxe is steel string, not nylon string.
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Mark1960
Posted 2003-11-18 1:33 AM (#200958 - in reply to #200952)
Subject: Re: A couple of FD-14 questions


Joined:
September 2003
Posts: 171

Location: Indiana
Dave,

That is very interesting. I appreciate the info. I wonder if the same holds true for the 6774 folklores (and older models) with the 1 7/8" necks? It doesn't seem to make sense to me (but maybe I'm missing something) that you would widen a neck 3/16" but leave the same spacing at the saddle.

I like the FD-14 and have my eye on a couple. They keep coming down in price and it's getting harder to keep my wallet in my pocket. I have a couple of other priorities to take care of first, but I'm working on it. I can almost feel the thing in my hands when I look at it. Which reminds me...You have an awesome guitar collection! I've enjoyed the photo albums emmensely. Thanks for sharing in it. I appreciate the efforts everyone puts into this place to make it work. The wealth of experiences and knowledge here is awesome.

peace,
mark
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Paul Templeman
Posted 2003-11-18 5:15 AM (#200959 - in reply to #200952)
Subject: Re: A couple of FD-14 questions


Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 5750

Location: Scotland
I have a custom made guitar based on the old style 12-fret Folklore and a '78 "wide-neck" Adamas. The spacing on these 2 is identical and is wider by about 3/32nds when compared to my SMT & other standard neck Ovations. Maybe as the FD-14 at 1 3/4" isn't quite as wide as Ovations usual wide-neck, they feel that a standard string spacing is appropriate.
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Standingovation
Posted 2003-11-18 8:36 AM (#200960 - in reply to #200952)
Subject: Re: A couple of FD-14 questions



Joined:
June 2002
Posts: 6191

Location: Phoenix AZ
Paul, can you measure the span between the bridge holes on your wide neck. I measured on a 1614 Folklore, and it was exact the same as the narrow necked guitars (and also the same as the FD14, Josh White, Legends). I can't measure anything different in the bridges. Dave

Can someone from the factory comment on this ???

Dave

PS - It's interesting what you mind does, however. On the FD-14 because the string spacing is wider at the nut (and your left hand is definately aware of this), you also feel like it is wider at the bridge. More than one person who has played mine has specifically commented that they liked the extra "roominess" to fingerpick. Mind games.
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Paul Templeman
Posted 2003-11-18 8:42 AM (#200961 - in reply to #200952)
Subject: Re: A couple of FD-14 questions


Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 5750

Location: Scotland
Dave, when I ordered my guitar I specified a carved CL-style bridge. I was told this was not possible as they only had stocks of the carved bridge with standard spacing & a one-off with wide spacing would have been a relative fortune, so evidently there is a difference, albeit very slight.
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Mark1960
Posted 2003-11-18 11:42 AM (#200962 - in reply to #200952)
Subject: Re: A couple of FD-14 questions


Joined:
September 2003
Posts: 171

Location: Indiana
mind games indeed. The left hand says "hey, I have extra room up here"...and the right thinks "me too"...lol...

I can see it being the same on the FD-14, it's only 1/16" wider.... but it seems very odd to me that on the 1 7/8" neck guitars you would give the left hand an extra 3/16" but give the right hand nothing. I thought the idea of these type of guitars was to give BOTH hands a little extra room for the style of play they were intended for.

This is interesting. I don't know nearly as much about guitar construction as many here do, but the subject came to mind while doing some reading about some other guitars like Santa Cruz and Lowden. I'm a nuts and bolts kinda guy (industrial machine technician by trade) so numbers and how things are made interest me I guess.

Anyhow...I've only heard good things about how folklores sound/play and look forward to owning one soon. I've been watching ebay for a couples of months for a 1614 and have not seen any. Meanwhile, the FD-14 keeps coming down in price.

thanks again, guys...
mark
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ravana
Posted 2003-11-27 2:00 AM (#200963 - in reply to #200952)
Subject: Re: A couple of FD-14 questions


Joined:
May 2003
Posts: 4

Location: hollywood,ca
Well the FD-14 is the first new Ovation I've ever owned and if I had the capital I'd get another as well! Having owned other cedar top guitars from other makers [Lowden,Breedlove,Daion] I can honestly say that the FD-14 is one of the most practical instruments in terms of response and playability I've had the pleasure of bonding with.
Yes I do play fingerstyle with a very aggressive
right hand [and nails...strong nails] and this guitar is the only cedar top that doesnt compress w/ a strong attack!
Oh yeah, I've found that the GHS Contact Core Euro-Bronze[it's a phospher bronze wrap] seems to bring out the best over all response in this beasty although I suspect the Superwound Country Golds from the UK would do as well if not better.
I hope to find an early 70's Folklore someday...but This More Than Fills The Bill!
-Ravana
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Standingovation
Posted 2003-11-27 8:11 AM (#200964 - in reply to #200952)
Subject: Re: A couple of FD-14 questions



Joined:
June 2002
Posts: 6191

Location: Phoenix AZ
Ranava - Glad to see a post from another FD lover. If you ever get an early 70's folklore you will be disappointed. The FD just blows it away in every respect. I know from experience. Dave
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Mark1960
Posted 2003-11-29 12:40 PM (#200965 - in reply to #200952)
Subject: Re: A couple of FD-14 questions


Joined:
September 2003
Posts: 171

Location: Indiana
Hey ravana....thanks for the excellent feedback on the FD-14. You helped me make a decision that I've been tossing around for a while. #50 is being shipped to me Monday....my xmas present to myself :D . The guys at acoustic axis said he contributed the deep lyrachord bowl for making this a truely special cedar top guitar that doesn't compress as some do during heavier play. He said he will keep the last one before he gives it away. It is taking a while to sell these in the US but soon they will be gone.

thanks guys...
mark
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Legend-LX-Fan
Posted 2003-11-29 12:50 PM (#200966 - in reply to #200952)
Subject: Re: A couple of FD-14 questions


Joined:
November 2002
Posts: 1196

Location: Lafayette, Louisiana
A frend of mine got a FD-14, and I must say wow what a guitar. It has such an even tone, that I can see why you guys love them. Great guitar, and I love the cedar top.
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Beal
Posted 2003-11-29 3:40 PM (#200967 - in reply to #200952)
Subject: Re: A couple of FD-14 questions



Joined:
January 2002
Posts: 14127

Location: 6 String Ranch
It would stand to reason that a wide nut should have a wide saddle. Back in the old days the Adamas were like that but it stopped at some point. Here are some numbers I just took from various guitars

2003 Collings OM3mev
nut 1.78" 1.50
12th 2.265 1.94
bridge 2.33

76 1189-7 #36 adamas wide neck
n 1.78 1.57
12 2.185 1.92
b 2.31

76 1187-7 #53 AD narrow
n 1.71 1.36
12 2.10 1.75
b 2.17

78 1189-8 ad wide
n 1.90 1.57
12 2.10 1.86
br 2.15

I put in the Collings because it is a vintage neck and string spacing. (It's flame maple and engleman but that's another story) The early adamas wide necks had wider string spacing, perhaps only the slotheads. This #220 is about the 130th guitar built after the line opened again and we see that it has the standard bridge spacing.
It is a fine point we're talking here. I've got another Collings OM-42 that has the same width nut but standard bridge spacing and I honestly find it a bit easier to play. No problem with the right hand on either guitar but the wide bridge gets to be more work for the left hand up around the 10th fret and higher.
So as they say, 6 of one 2 dozen of the other.....
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Mark1960
Posted 2003-11-29 5:58 PM (#200968 - in reply to #200952)
Subject: Re: A couple of FD-14 questions


Joined:
September 2003
Posts: 171

Location: Indiana
I wasn't so much complaining as I was curious. I know some of the older wider neck Martins had string spacings as wide as 2 3/8" at the saddle.

At any rate...from all I have heard, the FD-14 is great to play and I look forward to it.

mark
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