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November 2003
Posts: 53
Location: Canada | As some people know from my prevous posts I have a new L778 Elite. I have a few questions for you experienced Ovation members regarding the quality of US made O's. The area where my neck joins the body of my guitar seems to have a few minor imperfections. It looks like there is a small gap between the neck join and the black material that coats the bowl.Is this normal for a US made Ovation elite? Maybe someone can have a quick look at my pics.
http://www3.nf.sympatico.ca/steveh/ovationneckgap.jpg
http://www3.nf.sympatico.ca/steveh/Oneckfinish.jpg
Thanks |
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Posts: 6191
Location: Phoenix AZ | Steve, This is not normal for a US Ovation. I have many (too many) of them in the house and none have this cosmetic issue. I don't knowthe history of your purchase. If it was bought new, I would definately return it. If you got it second hand, you may have fewer options. I'm sure the factory service could make it 100% perfect. But even that will cost you about $30. each way shipping plus wehat ever the factory charges (assuming it's not under warranty). Since this is on the cutaway side of the neck, and you don't see it all the time yourself while playing, I'd be inclined to try to touch it up myself. Maybe some black Testors hobby paint and you could dab it on to make a textured look. Dave |
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November 2003
Posts: 53
Location: Canada | Standingovation, I bought the guitar new and it is only two days old. I purchased it at a music store named Litz music in Maryland. I would rather send the guitar to Ovation for correction then send it to Litz music. Has anyone ever gone through the warranty process? Any suggestions or comments on this matter? Any help will be appreciated. |
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Posts: 170
Location: The Shop | It is alittle hard to see from the pic's,but is what you are seeing a gap that has been filled or is it a problem with the way the body paint meets the neck? Also,did you order this from the factory new or was it in the dealers stock?
I have seen alot of guitars leave the shop and it is quite hard to tell what is wrong.Try zooming out a bit and post another pic.If it is a definite quality issue,send it back and we will fix it.
EX-CMS MAN |
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November 2003
Posts: 53
Location: Canada | Thank you again for the replys. I don't mean to complain about the unit but this is my first Ovation guitar. I have no experience with the product, nor do I know what is normal for the product.To be honest it really looks like a poor attempt to attach a guitar neck to a body. When the join is examined closely it reveals gaps along the edges. The white color that sits on the fret line (incorrect term) exposes the wood in two places which is very difficult to see from the picture.The guitar was in stock at Litz music. Please have a look at the below pictures.
Thank you again,
Steve
http://www3.nf.sympatico.ca/steveh/neck2.jpg
http://www3.nf.sympatico.ca/steveh/neck1.jpg
http://www3.nf.sympatico.ca/steveh/neck4.jpg
http://www3.nf.sympatico.ca/steveh/fret.jpg
Save the pics and view them, it seems like they are very large in the post. |
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Posts: 53
Location: Canada | Also, is it normal to see the grains of wood vertically on the body? |
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October 2003
Posts: 44
Location: Richland, Washington | Steve - I’ve had very good success with Ovation service since the 1980’s. It’s one of the reasons I keep buying Ovation Guitars. I’m the original owner of a 1980 Custom Balladeer, Model 1612-4. I’ve had this guitar serviced four times by the U.S. Ovation Factory and all I had to pay was the freight. In two of these repairs Ovation resurface the entire guitar top at their cost. The turn around is usually about a month. I think if you did a search on this site under “Ovation Customer Service” or “Keller” you will find other antidotes that complement Ovation for their warranty service. Give Kim Keller (one of the Ovation Customer Service Reps) a call describing your problem (860-379-7575, ext. 125) or John Budny and either will tell you what you should do. Kim is sometimes hard to get directly by phone. You can leave a voice mail message when you call and he will return your call if you don’t get him. Good luck! |
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July 2003
Posts: 181
Location: North Carolina | Steve, the pics are fuzzy to me but from what I can see the flaw on the body looks cosmetic and not structural. However, I can understand you wanting your O to be just right. I ordered a CE778 in April '03 that had a raised 17th fret when I got it. I lived with for a while, then gor a local guy to try to reseat it, but he couldn't get it in all the way. So, finally, I called Kim and he gave me an RA to send it back to New Hartford no problem. It is in the shop right now getting fixed. There were also a few cosmetic flaws on the neck binding when I got it, but to be honest with you, life is too short to be a perfectionist. I damn sure love this guitar and am waiting with baited breath to get it back.
Franklin |
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April 2003
Posts: 65
Location: Connecticut | If the problem is that small line of white showing below the binding on the cutaway side, then it is an easy fix as stated before with a touch of black paint and maybe a quick scrape with a razor blade to clean up the line. It shouldn't have gone out that way but it is such a small thing I would probably just touch it up myself rather than send it back to the factory. |
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November 2003
Posts: 53
Location: Canada | I just took a few more pics of the problem area; I think they are much better than the previous pics. It needs more than just a bit of paint, there even appears to be a small cut on the body material where the neck joins. I have also noticed today that the one of the edges of the wood design on the body is starting to come off. I really think I bought the bad apple. I talked to Kim today and he assured me that the problem will be corrected. I just hate the fact of having to send my 2 day old guitar across the boarder.
http://www3.nf.sympatico.ca/steveh/neck1.jpg
http://www3.nf.sympatico.ca/steveh/neck2.jpg
http://www3.nf.sympatico.ca/steveh/neck3.jpg
http://www3.nf.sympatico.ca/steveh/neck4.jpg |
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Posts: 6191
Location: Phoenix AZ | Steve, Here is my personal opinion - You have had this guitar for 2 days and obviously are not satisfied with it (I wouldn't be either). You've put a lot of effort already into describing the problem, lots of photos, etc. Why should YOU as the consumer have to go to all this trouble? I think that even after the factory fixes it, this whole deal will still leave a bad taste in your mouth. Plus who do you think pays to ship the guitar to the factory? And who compensates you for the fact that you paid good money for this guitar and now after two days you have to send it back to the factory and be without it for a period of time? This is all BULL SHIT, and frankly I think you are getting ripped off. I would return the guitar to where you bought it immediately for a full refund (including return postage), and start over elsewhere. Dave |
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Posts: 2246
Location: Yucaipa, California | I agree with StandingOvation.... get your money back and give it to Al! HE will take care of you properly!
tim |
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December 2001
Posts: 10581
Location: NJ | Steve
if the guitar is new or reconditioned it does have a warranty. I am not sure if cosmetic stuff would be covered on a reconditioned guitar.
Victor Litz is a reputable dealer.
If you call there and get Dave mention my name.
Tony Litz is the owner and he is a standup guy as well. Call and see what they will do for you if you are not happy.
If the guitar is used or a 2nd then there is nothing you can do about it. ASAIK you have not made that clear in your posts
good luck |
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November 2003
Posts: 53
Location: Canada | I first seen the guitar as an auction posted on eBay by Litz music. I called Dave and asked him many questions regarding the guitar. I asked him outright if the unit was used or a factory second. He told me it was brand new and was not a second. His exact words were if it was a second or used it would be listed in the auction. I trusted Dave and I won the auction. When I received the guitar I looked in the bowl and noticed a sticker inside saying Factory Reconditioned Guitar. It was listed with an OP 40 electronics system and came with the older style. I was VERY unhappy to say the least. I contacted Dave and he told me that he though the guitar was a 1st and did not know it was reconditioned. I had to pay an extra 200 hundred dollars to get the guitar cleared through customs. If all that wasn’t bad enough the guitar is basically falling apart. Dave did offer to refund my money but if I take that option I am out 200 hundred dollars for customs and taxes. I am an honest person, I would never screw someone on a transaction, I'm not saying Litz music screwed me but they are a music store and should know the product they are selling. If anyone would like to look at the auction feel free to click this link
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2565914414&ssPageName=ADME:B:EOAB:CA:6
I have to say that my first experience with Ovation guitars has truly been a nightmare. Standingovation, I indeed have a bad taste in my mouth. I have an American made Ovation Elite that really feels like a cheap, generic guitar. I am really sorry for flooding your board with questions and countless pictures. I though I was getting the guitar for a great deal. Add the price of the guitar; shipping to Canada, 200 for customs/taxes and another 140 for the case and it equals a piece of junk. Thank you again for all your suggestions and help, they are greatly appreciated. |
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Posts: 4619
Location: SoCal | Personally, I would first file a written complaint with the seller. Assuming that doesn't quickly solve the problem, looks to me like a good case for small claims court (not sure the amount in that state but California is $5,000.) I would go after full refund plus all costs, to include the $200 and shipping.
If paid by credit card, place the charge in dispute. In addition file a complaint with the Better Business Bureau in the store's area - whether it is a member or not. File a complaint with the state Attorney General. File a complaint with Ovation/Kaman - don't know if the company has any clout with the distributors. File a complaint with eBay. At least on the surface, this appears to be misrepresentation, if not fraud. |
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Posts: 10581
Location: NJ | The list on that guitar is $1800 plus case.
you got it for 629 that is espeically cheap for a lefty and even a reconditioned guitar. IN fact I am not so sure that the auction does not violate the dealer agreement.
anyway with that said, you should have got what was adveritsed with the correct preamp etc.
You were offered a full refund and that is about all they can do. The reason why you bought the guitar was because of the significant savings that you got that you would not get locally.
what you pictured is cosmetic and does not constitute "the guitar is falling apart". You need to contact Litz and get a refund they are not responsible for your duty and shipping.
Tony you must RETURN the product to dispute the charge. If you have it and did not return it then you have to pay for it.
Sorry for your unhappy experience but I really think you are going a little too far with some of your postings. |
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Posts: 4619
Location: SoCal | I am focusing on the listing as new, yet reconditioned.
I have personally sat through several small claims cases in California concerning misrepresentation and served as a Senior Arbitrator for the Better Business Bureau. We have two issues here: (1)the warranty and (2) the actions of the seller. In either case, his concerns and position should be presented to the seller first (in writing.) The seller/dealer should always have an opportunity to resolve the issue whether warranty issue or representation in the sale.
If the guitar was not new, that is a serious issue. And, it may be necessary to utilize the courts. However, I would hope that, after reviewing the eBay listing, the dealer would stand tall and make the buyer "whole" as new doesn't mean reconditioned. Buyer purchased in good faith based on seller's "warranty" which is a statement of fact.
And, if the buyer is right and the dealer is wrong and won't take responsibility, let the world know.
Repairs needed under warranty are separate from misrepresentation. |
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March 2002
Posts: 1380
Location: Central Oregon | Here's my take on the situation-
First, you didn't get what you paid for.
Second, if you return the guitar you're going to be out a significant amount of money because the people you got it from screwed up-not because you screwed up.
Third, your guitar appears to have only cosmetic damage.
Fourth, if it really does play like a "generic guitar" (& assuming the defect is only cosmetic), it will almost certainly only be in need of a setup to make it play just like you want it to. In my admittedly limited experience, my two O's are amazingly adjustable.
Sooo, maybe you could try to cut a deal with "Dave" &/or Mr. Litz. Explain your financial loss honestly. Give them the exact numbers. Since it was obviously 100% thier outfit's fault maybe you should ask for half your money back & keep the guitar. Or maybe ask them to give back whatever profit they made & keep the guitar. Since Al says they're stand-up people they might be willing to do something like that. I noticed that you haven't given them feedback yet. I also noticed they haven't had a negative in over 6 months. I'll bet they'd like to keep it that way. A big fat red negative right at the top of their feedback would cost them a certain amount of money I betcha.
So here's what I would do- Try to get part of your money back, keep the guitar, have it set up (or do it yourself, it's really a lot easier than I thought it would be), tell yourself you got a nice guitar pretty damned cheap because it has a blemish that probably nobody else will ever notice unless you point it out, & a pre-amp that is basically the same as the one advertised, just a different shape.
I would imagine the guys in charge are not the ones that put that ad on the bay, but they are the ones who should try to make you happy because, well, they're the ones in charge.
Anyway that's what I would try to do. When I have a problem I go straight to the source & try to straighten it out first.
If all else fails, write 'em a song & post it here, it will get back to them eventually! :)
Good luck,
/\/\/ |
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Posts: 10581
Location: NJ | A reconditioned guitar does have a warranty although it is limited.
bottom line is the ad says nothing about reconditioned, and it also said op 40 preamp.
Asking for half the money back is unreasonable. With my calculations Litz music LOST money selling that guitar. Although I guess it is worth an e mail to ask if they would do that.
I have completed many international deals and sometimes they are not easy. This situation seems like it could have been avoided. |
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February 2002
Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | Something worth mentioning. The seller used a stock picture, probably downloaded from the net or scanned from a catalog. Although in this case it probably wouldn't have made a difference, I would not proceed until I had seen pictures of the actual item offered.
The best bet here would be to work out some kind of partial refund & use that to ship the guitar to the factory. If you do ship to the factory make sure you fill in the correct customs forms or you could end up payimg import duty again when it's returned to you. |
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Joined:
November 2003
Posts: 53
Location: Canada | Guys when an Ovation is reconditioned that means that the problem occurred and was corrected, right? Does anyone have the details about the warranty for a FCG? The seller didn't supply me with a warranty card or manual. Dave at litz has offered me a 40 dollar credit for the problem. I still believe that I got a great deal on the guitar but it is disappointing because the item was not listed correctly and did not have the quality that I have been reading about. Thanks again for all the replies, your opinions are always welcome. :) |
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March 2002
Posts: 15653
Location: SoCal | Strikes me that there's a lot of debate here about something that has a couple of possible solutions.
First, you keep the guitar and ask for some cash on it.
Second, you send the guitar back and ask for your money back, plus shipping. They advertised a product and did not send you what they advertised (I'm thinking specifically of the preamp, not of the repaired gap -- quite honestly, I don't consider that a problem as you bought a FRG for quite a bit below market).
Third, Keep the guitar and just be happy. It's a great guitar, the preamp is a tried and true piece of equipment, and the price, as already noted, is way below market. I would ask about the warranty info.
Beyond those three options, I don't see a lot of debate. Keep in mind that lefty Ovations are not plentiful. It's a great guitar and you will probably have it forever. |
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November 2003
Posts: 53
Location: Canada | "I'm thinking specifically of the preamp, not of the repaired gap -- quite honestly, I don't consider that a problem as you bought a FRG for quite a bit below market"
I guess the fact that the guitar is a FRG is not a big concern because these units are "supposed" to be repaired to spec. The price that I paid for the guitar has no relevance to the point I was trying to make. EBay is comprised of an environment that contains multiple auctions. Sometimes you get something for a great deal and other times you have to pay a little more. The fact of the matter is that anyone who wins an auction will expect to receive the item as it was described. I'm happy with the guitar and I will be REALLY happy when I get the problems corrected. I really find it ironic that the people who talk about Ovation's unparallel quality are the same people who are suggesting that I have overreacted about the cosmetic flaws on my guitar. It is always a disappointment when a product doesn’t not live up to your expectations. I'm thankful that Kim and staff are so damn good; I look forward to deal with the Ovation team. |
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Posts: 10581
Location: NJ | Steve
your beef is with the seller not with the manufacturer.
I believe the refurb warranty is 1 or 3 years. I am not positive. You should have got a warranty card with the guitar.
You brought up quality control issues knowing your guitar was a refurb and not providing that information. If you would have provided that information in the first place then it would have been easy to answer your questions. That was a vital piece of the puzzle that you chose to keep from everyone. |
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November 2003
Posts: 53
Location: Canada | This topic has progressed into an area where people are making statements and presumptions about my situation which are untrue. First of all my topic was about the quality of an Ovation guitar. Since I have joined this group I have been hearing testimonies about Ovations and how their quality (in the USA) is superior, no questions asked. My problem occurred when I received an American made Ovation guitar that did not meet my expectations. My expectations were derived upon statements and opinions that were generated from members of this message board. When I noticed that the guitar I purchased was not a "first quality" unit (Contradicting everything that was listed in the eBay auction) I became upset and negative feelings quickly developed. I spoke to the seller, he expressed his apologies and I decided to keep the guitar on information that I located on this message board. The information that I have gathered told me that ALL Ovation FRG's had problems in construction but are resolved before shipment. I have no "beef" with anyone. I merely posted my situation because I respected the opinions of the Fan Club members. I had hoped that experienced, mature, members could lead me in the proper direction with reference to Ovation quality. The majority of the members of this board have expressed opinions and have indeed helped me greatly. Other members have been very pessimistic and maybe worsened the situation. I have kept nothing from anyone. Is it correct to state that because an Ovation guitar, made in the USA, is a factory 2nd may contain defects (cosmetic or structural) that will differentiate them from a factory 1st? Should I, as a consumer, expect to receive an Elite Ovation guitar with cosmetic problems? |
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Questions regarding Craftsmanship
