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Questions regarding Craftsmanship

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   Forums Archive -> The Vault: 2002-2003Message format
 
Legend-LX-Fan
Posted 2003-11-22 10:09 PM (#200692 - in reply to #200667)
Subject: Re: Questions regarding Craftsmanship


Joined:
November 2002
Posts: 1196

Location: Lafayette, Louisiana
Steve. I can assure you that had your guitar been brand new as listed, you would be in love with it already. Your is a FRG guitar, so it had or has it's problems. I think what is kind of bugging some of the members in the club is that you are judging the quality of Ovations by your one bad apple. I have had the fortune of owning some wonderful Ovation guitars, and every one was first rate quality. I am sorry that your first encounter with an Ovation has put you in this situation, but Ovations are very well made guitars. I was lucky enough to pick up a Custom Legend model made in 1979 a few weeks ago. It is built like a tank, and plays like the day it was made. I just hope you can resolve your problem, and become an Ovation fan like we all are.
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alpep
Posted 2003-11-22 10:27 PM (#200693 - in reply to #200667)
Subject: Re: Questions regarding Craftsmanship


Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 10581

Location: NJ
I will put a fork it in at from my perspective. I tried to offer some suggestions and alternatives and I get beat up. no more. If you cannot ascertain that there would be a difference between first quality and a refurb then this discourse is pointless.

enjoy your guitar!!!
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Paul Templeman
Posted 2003-11-23 5:49 AM (#200694 - in reply to #200667)
Subject: Re: Questions regarding Craftsmanship


Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 5750

Location: Scotland
Steve, the listing states the guitar is brand new, with full warranty, nowhere does it state FRG. I would be unhappy if I'd received a FRG regardless of it's condition when I was expecting a first-quality guitar. The problem here is not with the manufacturer, or for that matter the advice or opinions you have received from board members who were merely trying to be helpful. You need to take this up with the vendor, and as you are obviously unhappy I'd seriously consider sending it back.
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SteveL778
Posted 2003-11-23 7:49 AM (#200695 - in reply to #200667)
Subject: Re: Questions regarding Craftsmanship


Joined:
November 2003
Posts: 53

Location: Canada
Thank you again to all who have replied. I hope I didn't rustle too many feathers on the board. My definition of a FRG must be incorrect. Basically I thought that the difference in a 1st and a 2nd is that the 2nd took multiple attempts in construction to become a 1st. I have still not confirmed the warranty period for a FRG and what is contained within this period. Anyone know the terms?
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alpep
Posted 2003-11-23 5:55 PM (#200696 - in reply to #200667)
Subject: Re: Questions regarding Craftsmanship


Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 10581

Location: NJ
<<>>


the reason why I put the fork in it.

good luck.
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Paul Templeman
Posted 2003-11-23 6:10 PM (#200697 - in reply to #200667)
Subject: Re: Questions regarding Craftsmanship


Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 5750

Location: Scotland
Steve, a second can not "become a first" Here's the difference, as I understand it, and please Al or anyone else who knows better, correct me if I'm wrong. A factory second is a new guitar which has acquired a cosmetic flaw in production and can not as a result be sold as "perfect" These guitars do not have structural problems, and sell at a reduced price with a limited rather than lifetime warranty. They will be marked clearly with a "2". As far as I know production guitars with structural problems are destroyed. FRG guitars may have had structural problems and possibly cosmetic problems but the fact that they are "factory reconditioned" means any these have have been corrected "AT THE FACTORY". As a result they are near as damn as good as a first-quality instrument but can be sold considerably cheaper, again with a limited warranty. Any vendor selling seconds or FRG's without informing buyers is a snake.
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SteveL778
Posted 2003-11-23 6:20 PM (#200698 - in reply to #200667)
Subject: Re: Questions regarding Craftsmanship


Joined:
November 2003
Posts: 53

Location: Canada
Thank you very much Paul. Your explanation between factory 2nds and FRG's is very helpful. My guitar does not have a "2" stamped on it anywhere, it contains a sticker on the inside of the bowl that says "FRG". So it is correct to assume that my FRG should have no flaws of any kind, it must have "slipped" past the manufacture. Again, I talked to Kim and he really sounded like a genuine guy. I have all the confidence in the world that he will correct my problem after the Christmas season. Does anyone know the exact time periods for a FRG unit?

Thank you again ;)
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Legend-LX-Fan
Posted 2003-11-23 6:26 PM (#200699 - in reply to #200667)
Subject: Re: Questions regarding Craftsmanship


Joined:
November 2002
Posts: 1196

Location: Lafayette, Louisiana
Steve, Kim Keller is the best at what he does. The Ovation service department will make your guitar right. They did a wonders on an old Custom Balladeer that I have. Get your guitar to the factory, and Kim will see that it is done right.
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Paul Templeman
Posted 2003-11-23 6:28 PM (#200700 - in reply to #200667)
Subject: Re: Questions regarding Craftsmanship


Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 5750

Location: Scotland
Steve, it is not correct to assume anything about individual instruments, but I personally would be happy with about 85% from an FRG. I could make a point about expectation versus price paid, but that goes back to your beef with the seller. My '68 Deluxe Balladeer is clearly stamped with a "2" but it's one of the best sounding instruments I own. I will also tell you that in an industry full of flakes & fuckwits, Kim Keller, John Budny & the rest of the Ovation customer service team shine above them like a beacon
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alpep
Posted 2003-11-23 7:20 PM (#200701 - in reply to #200667)
Subject: Re: Questions regarding Craftsmanship


Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 10581

Location: NJ
I am not aware of the official company policy regarding FRG and 2nds. this would be good to find out.


The bottom line is you were lead to belive you were getting a first quality instrument not a frg or 2nd.
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Ralph
Posted 2003-11-24 5:56 PM (#200702 - in reply to #200667)
Subject: Re: Questions regarding Craftsmanship


Joined:
January 2003
Posts: 105

Location: San Francisco, CA
"... Any vendor selling seconds or FRG's without informing buyers is a snake."

Paul T, 100% agree with you. Not sure if Al would agree :D

Al, who is that snake that did not mention "factory second" when he sold seconds on eBay :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
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Paul Templeman
Posted 2003-11-26 8:13 PM (#200703 - in reply to #200667)
Subject: Re: Questions regarding Craftsmanship


Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 5750

Location: Scotland
"Ralph" or whoever the hell you are, your post strikes me as dangerously close to libel, & if you have even a shred of decency you will delete it.
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WAOvation
Posted 2003-11-26 8:41 PM (#200704 - in reply to #200667)
Subject: Re: Questions regarding Craftsmanship


Joined:
October 2003
Posts: 44

Location: Richland, Washington
Paul T, your statement is correct. It appears that this individual has some sort of personal rub with a reliable vendor who sponsors this web site. These sorts of negative attacks on this BB are not appropriate or helpful. I’ve had personal business dealings with Al P. (recently purchased a brand new O from him) and he is the most honest and reliable dealer in musical instruments I’ve met in 30+ years.
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alpep
Posted 2003-11-26 9:27 PM (#200705 - in reply to #200667)
Subject: Re: Questions regarding Craftsmanship


Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 10581

Location: NJ
I have contacted "ralph" via private e mail. I asked if we could resolve any problems and primarily if he could tell me what these problems are.

I have not got a response. I stand by my record on e bay and via the internet of my business. If there is a legitimate complaint about me I have no problem with anyone airing it anywhere. Accusations of fraud are another thing.

There has been instances of someone emailing my e bay customers telling them not to buy from me. Perhaps you know something about that?
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Lightfoot
Posted 2003-11-27 9:33 AM (#200706 - in reply to #200667)
Subject: Re: Questions regarding Craftsmanship


Joined:
October 2002
Posts: 73

Location: out there
Mr Templeman,
It would appear that Mr "Ralph" will not answer you. Could he be the same hamptonless berk who we've thankfully not heard from in a long time? His comment was well out of order.
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Paul Templeman
Posted 2003-11-27 6:07 PM (#200707 - in reply to #200667)
Subject: Re: Questions regarding Craftsmanship


Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 5750

Location: Scotland
Lightfoot, top-notch use of the old rhyming-slang dear boy. I would vouchsafe that the bounder is indeed "wick-less" and as you also alluded to, a total cu*t.
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