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October 2008
Posts: 16
| I have a Preacher that has an intonation problem. I took it in to get adjusted, and still have the same problem. So, I am going solo on this trying to figure it out on my own.
The problem "seems" to be with the B string, but it could be with the nut. I just don't know. Does anyone know of a complete walk-thru for a newbie?
Thanks everyone!
Jeff |
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June 2007
Posts: 3084
Location: Brisbane Australia | Hey Jeff welcome!!
What bridge does it have?
AJ |
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October 2008
Posts: 16
| I'm not sure. How can I tell? I know it is the newer version of the Preacher. It is a six string and chrome. It does not have the word PREACHER engraved in the pick guard. And, the bridge is the full chrome type. It does not have that extra plastic piece on the end. And, the word OVATION is molded into the metal where that plastic piece would be. You can see the word OVATION only when you look at the guitar while looking from the bridge to the neck. If I took some pictures, would that help? |
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June 2007
Posts: 3084
Location: Brisbane Australia | Thats the later all metal Schaller bridge
Like this.
I assume the strings are new? |
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October 2008
Posts: 16
| From what I can see, that looks like it. I'm editing some photos now and will upload them here in a minute. Just a few ... |
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October 2008
Posts: 16
| Well, I didn't get to editing them, so the images are all large. I figure you may be able to see something in the large that I don't know is important. No, the strings were new when I took it in to get setup. I mean, I paid for new strings to be put on which were put on. The guitar sounded the same as it did when I took it in, so I left it in the box until today when I figure I would just do it myself. I managed to break the first string though.
Here are the images, and if they are too large just let me know. I'll reformat them. All of the images I uploaded are between 2MB and 3MB.
In the photos, you'll notice where I adjusted G and B pretty far. I went both ways on B and the intonation didn't sound any different to me. On each adjustment I retuned the guitar. I even marked the fret while bending the string to gauge the difference. That probably doesn't make sense. I also took the pick guard off so that I could get the bridge in my hands to do that way out adjustment. I am sure the pickups look crooked. I don't know how to adjust them either.
http://www.jeffreyjlaw.com/images/ovationpreacher/img_0319.jpg
http://www.jeffreyjlaw.com/images/ovationpreacher/img_0320.jpg
http://www.jeffreyjlaw.com/images/ovationpreacher/img_0321.jpg
http://www.jeffreyjlaw.com/images/ovationpreacher/img_0322.jpg
http://www.jeffreyjlaw.com/images/ovationpreacher/img_0323.jpg
http://www.jeffreyjlaw.com/images/ovationpreacher/img_0324.jpg
http://www.jeffreyjlaw.com/images/ovationpreacher/img_0326.jpg |
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Posts: 3084
Location: Brisbane Australia | Adjusting the saddles that much has to make a difference.
What brand and gauge of strings?
Are you checking the intonation with a tuner or by ear? |
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Joined:
October 2008
Posts: 16
| By ear. I have a tuner in the ZOOM 9002, but I wasn't hooked up while working with it. That's the only amp/pre-amp that I have. At first the G setting was just a little further than midway away from the fretboard. All I adjusted back and forth all the way each way was the B. Then I got a little concerned when it didn't seem to make a difference. At that point, I took off the pickguard and adjusted the G fully one way and then the other. Finally, I gave up and sought help online. I figure there should be a how to or something on the net for setting these things up from scratch. *sigh!* |
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October 2008
Posts: 16
| I play acoustic mostly. I think the strings were D'Addario electric strings ... not sure what gauge. |
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October 2008
Posts: 16
| I'm not sure which brands have colors on the ends of them like in the photos. Perhaps the guy used something else than what I wanted. |
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October 2008
Posts: 16
| I have two books that are about the guitar. I didn't seem to find how to do the setup in them. Well, not like from scratch. One book is "The Guitar Handbook" (http://www.guitarplace.com/RF033.html) and the other book is "The Complete Guitarist" (http://www.biblio.com/isbn/9781564581815.html). |
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October 2008
Posts: 16
| Just a note that I've removed the images that I posted above. |
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Joined:
October 2005
Posts: 4026
Location: Utah | A good tuner helps a lot. Do some web searches for "guitar setup" and "Guitar intonation". There are some excellent tutorials out there.
First you'll want to get the basic setup correct. Meaning, the bridge height set properly and the truss rod adjusted. Don't be scared of adjusting the truss rod, just be sure to go slowly. Something like 1/4 turn maximum, then wait a day to see how it settles in. If the truss rod is already pretty close to correct, it will take very small adjustments, like 1/8 turn or less.
After you get the basic setup correct, tune the guitar and adjust the intonation on each string. The 12th fret note should be precisely 1 octave higher than the open string. This is where the electronic tuner helps. Play the open string and make sure it is exactly in tune. Then play the 12th fret note (lightly fretted, not mashed down to where the note is bent) and see if it is exactly in tune but one octave higher. Adjust the bridge nearer the nut if the note is flat, further if it is sharp. Then retune the open string and start over.
If you don't have a good electronic tuner you'll have to do it by ear. You can play the harmonic on the 12th fret by lightly touching the string at the 12th fret, then compare that to the fretted note at the 12th fret. They should be the same note. However, it is not easy to be sure the notes are the same, and the harmonics are not precisely the right note. You should be able to get close this way but it is not as easy as using an electronic tuner. |
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Posts: 4026
Location: Utah | For the basic setup, you'll want to get the truss rod adjusted first. Use a capo placed between the 13th and 14th fret, and another between the nut and the 1st fret. You can use your hands but capos make it a lot easier! Now, see how much space there is between the 6th fret and the bottom of the low E string. Also look at the space between the 6th fret and the high E string. Both should be very close but not touching.
If you gently press on the string you should feel it tap the fret. If it is already touching the fret you won't feel the tap.
There are numbers published for what this gap "should" be. I've found that for fast action the gap should just be perceptible. That is, you feel the tap on the fret but can't see significant space there. If you play an aggressive style you will want more space (more relief).
If there is too much relief, too much space, tighten the truss rod with the hex wrench. If there is no space at all, loosen the truss rod. Righty tighty, lefty loosey. Try a 1/8 turn and see what the change is. If you need more adjustment, try another 1/8 turn. If it still needs more, wait until tomorrow to start again.
Once you have the neck adjusted, use the height adjustment on the bridge to set the height of the strings above the 14th fret. It isn't magic which fret you reference. The truss rod adjusts the relief but only acts in the first 12 frets approximately. From there to the 24th fret there is no truss rod effect. When you adjust the height of the bridge you are adjusting the height of the strings across the tops of the 12th to 24th frets. Higher gives less fret buzz, lower is easier and faster action. Search on "Gibson setup specs" for a place to start on how high to set the action.
Changing the height of the bridge will affect the intonation. So set the action up before you do the intonation. |
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October 2008
Posts: 16
| Hi FlySig,
Thank you for your help!
I bought new strings and got my digital tuner out (it's an old Korg DT-2).
I'm a little baffled by the height of the bridge since I have adjusted it. I made it level though I don't know if that is correct.
After I did that, I tried the steps to the basic setup, but I only had one capo.
Last night while I was practicing with my wife, she was playing her acoustic and so the capo defaulted to her. Her poker face was more convincing than mine, so she won it.
Then I had to improvise. So, I went to our homeschooling shelf and got one of the kids pipecleaners. That's what I call them ... craft wire with fuzzy on it and comes in different colors. Next, I "borrowed" my wife's size "G" crochet hook. I set the crochet hook one fret below (towards the tuners) where I wanted the capo. Then I tied the wire to one end of the hook, went under the neck and looped real tight around the other end of the hook, and then under the neck again and back to the starting spot. Finally, I slid the contraption up (towards the bridge) one fret to where I wanted it, and "Whalla!" ... now I can make as many capos as I need.
So .... I am returning to this project of getting this puppy tuned. With your steps, I should be able to wing it. I'll keep you posted.
Sincerely,
Jeff Law |
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Joined:
October 2008
Posts: 16
| By the way, that makeshift capo works really well because I have larger hands, and I'm not fighting with the capo to make chords up on the higher frets. My next revision will be to buy my own hooks, and cut the hook to be just a little wider than the width of the neck and then notch both ends so that whatever I use for fastening will have a keeper on either end. Plus, it will be smaller and look a bit more cleaner. I may add foam like a regular capo if that will help too. :) |
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October 2008
Posts: 16
| I meant to update you on the string height.
I did the clearance thing, and the action from the 13th/14th frets to the bridge was much higher than the action from the nut/1st fret to the 13th/14th frets. That is also why I adjusted the bridge down.
That's as far as I have gotten as of today. |
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October 2008
Posts: 16
| When I adjust the intonation on each string, do I have to retune the whole guitar or can I just leave all of the strings relaxed other than the one I am working on?
Also, I have to lower the back pickup to adjust the intonation. What height should it be set back to again when I get the guitar sounding like I want it? |
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October 2005
Posts: 4026
Location: Utah | Start with the guitar in tune to set the intonation, so that everything is in it's normal position and at working tension. After you have intonated a string, it doesn't matter if it is slightly out of tune when you work on other strings. But don't leave 5 strings slack while intonating one string.
You'll want the neck pickup fairly low to the pickguard, and the bridge pickup closer to the strings. But if you get the pickup too close to the strings it will affect the vibration because the magnet in the pickup will pull on the string and dampen it. Also, you should be able to fret any string on the 24th fret and not have it rub the top of the pickups.
You shouldn't have to move the pickups to work on the intonation. |
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January 2002
Posts: 14127
Location: 6 String Ranch | Maybe Jeff is going to make it past junior member in this thread alone? |
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October 2008
Posts: 16
| Yup! Should have been moderator by now! :p |
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Joined:
October 2008
Posts: 16
| Thanks FlySig!
How do I keep from stripping out the brass adjusting screws. That's part of the problem I had before. Should I put a drop of light oil on each saddle before I move them? |
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October 2008
Posts: 16
| I've had this preacher for over 4 years, so getting it to where I can enjoy playing it would be great! I really do appreciate all the help! |
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Joined:
October 2005
Posts: 4026
Location: Utah | Oil won't hurt if you keep it minimal, but I've never had to lube saddle screws before. If it were me, I'd loosen the strings all the way and then work the screws to be sure they are free. Lube 'em if needed. ONce they're working smoothly and freely, try the intonation.
BTW, be sure the bolt in the back of the guitar is properly adjusted. Your bridge should be parallel to the top of the guitar. When my daughter's Preacher arrived, the previous owner had cranked down on that bolt and tilted the bridge way back. Just get it looking parallel when the strings are on it and you should be close enough.
When you adjust intonation, once you are close it shouldn't take much adjustment at all of the saddle. Move it a tad, then retune the open string. Then check intonation at the 12th fret. Always retune the string after moving the saddle before checking intonation. |
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Preacher intonation & setup
