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new Bose system

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cliff
Posted 2003-12-02 10:40 AM (#198423)
Subject: new Bose system


Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 14842

Location: NJ
I've been seeing a lot of ads for this new Bose system designed for live sound in (what I would assume to be) small venues. Consists of speakers that are 7' tall x 6" diameter columns attached to a big disk-shaped base that contains the power unit. From what I can gather each band member has their own personal unit that's situated BEHIND them and supposedly these columns emanate sound in a 180-degree swath that they CLAIM suffers no sound degradation to the back of the audience.
They tout that these units allow you, your bandmates, and the audience to hear EVERYTHING in a clearer, more natural state, and replaces both stage monitors and clunky PA speakers. Personally, I think finding a cure for AIDS'd be an easier task, but I was wondering if anyone here might have some insight/info/experience with this seemingly wondrous new technology.

More importantly: $$$$$$$??????
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Paul Wag
Posted 2003-12-02 11:23 AM (#198424 - in reply to #198423)
Subject: Re: new Bose system


Joined:
December 2002
Posts: 939

Location: Fort Worth, Texas
Looked on www.bose.com and there's a bunch of info about the system - wil ahve to read it later (work and all!) Go to the "Professional Sound" portion of thier site...

Looks cool! Expensive, yes!
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Paul Templeman
Posted 2003-12-02 12:49 PM (#198425 - in reply to #198423)
Subject: Re: new Bose system


Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 5750

Location: Scotland
Bose have always had a maverick approach to sound reinforcement. Until the introduction of affordable and powerful active speakes their 800 series loudspeakers were about the only thing around that were loud but lightweight & portable. This looks interesting but a few things just don't seem right to me. Who controls the mix? There doesn't appear to be a way for an engineer to be involved. Allowing a bunch of musicians to mix "by committee" usually produces the aural equivalent of the Camel. I didn't see any power-rating, Bose loudpeakers are notoriously inefficient and I suspect these things may struggle to get above a guitar amp & drum kit at moderate levels. Also, given the location & proximity to the player it strikes me that feedback could be a problem, especially with acoustic instruments. Either way it looks very interesting, hopefully they'll be demo-ing this stuff at NAMM
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Woz
Posted 2003-12-02 1:35 PM (#198426 - in reply to #198423)
Subject: Re: new Bose system


Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 389

Location: RI. That small State out East
Over $1,600.00
It better be real good. My local GC was expecting to get some "soon".
Woz
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cliff
Posted 2003-12-02 1:56 PM (#198427 - in reply to #198423)
Subject: Re: new Bose system


Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 14842

Location: NJ
". . Who controls the mix? . ."

I was wondering that too, Paul.

Leaving two (or more) musicians to monitor/adjust their own level(s) can "proliferate" faster than an Israeli/Palestinian Dinner Dance.

Luckily, I don't have that problem when Rick & I play out at gigs . . . . .

. . . . it's MY P.A. system and it sits at MY end of the stage ;) .
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Strummin12
Posted 2003-12-02 2:43 PM (#198428 - in reply to #198423)
Subject: Re: new Bose system


Joined:
August 2002
Posts: 623

Location: Lake Hiawatha, New Jersey
"From what I can gather each band member has their own personal unit that's situated BEHIND them"

Reminds me...

In the early 90's I went to a rockman clinic at a local music store, featuring the "other" guitarist in Boston...not Tom Sholtz. He said that in the early days of Boston, Tom would spend many HOURS at each sound check, fussing over mic placement and amp sound. Once the rockman was created, the whole band ran through them (there was one for bass guitar too) direct into the board-to get the same sounds show to show.

To make a long unnecessary story longer, the interesting part (to me) was that each player had a personal monitoring cabinet behind him on stage, pumping the ENTIRE mix direct from the board, in which he could creat his own personal monitoring mix and balance adjustments AT THE CABINET. Since there were no amps on stage, each musician had complete and immediate control over what he wanted to hear more or less of-except the drums which still had acoustic properties.

Pretty revolutionary for the time. That Tom is quite a guy.
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dolbyscat
Posted 2003-12-02 5:37 PM (#198429 - in reply to #198423)
Subject: Re: new Bose system


Joined:
November 2003
Posts: 56

Location: hatzic lake, bc, canada.
checked out bose site, they give a power rating of 750 watts!!! sure looks interesting. read some of their posts and i'll be looking to try this out very soon. should be an experience by all accounts.hope we get some feedback here.i will certainly let you know how i get on with it if i can find somewhere to demo it.
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Neil
Posted 2003-12-02 5:57 PM (#198430 - in reply to #198423)
Subject: Re: new Bose system


Joined:
December 2002
Posts: 29

If you're not too proud, venture over to taylorguitarforum.com where there's quite a discussion about this (ES, Open Mic, and Guitar sections). Generally, the feedback is extremely positive and there's a guy whose band is one of a group of bands gigging with it and he has loads of comments, etc. on using it. It's not just for small venues either - from what I've read.
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alpep
Posted 2003-12-02 6:11 PM (#198431 - in reply to #198423)
Subject: Re: new Bose system


Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 10581

Location: NJ
you either are a bose fan or you are not. I like bose stuff. I used 800's 801, 802 for a long time as my PA. now miles owns my old 800's. I won a PA system at the namm show a few years back so I use that. I also run 4 bose 901's for my stereo, to get the lows I use a crown vfx2a crossvoer into a 15 inch jbl e 160.

First off, Bose gets a bad rap because the stuff is innovative (wonder where you heard this before) and it is expensive. Yes you can get the same sort of stuff with a cheaper price tag but then it would not be bose would it?

second Because Bose sorta sold out and are sold in department stores and not just high end stereo stores anymore they are dogged by the audiophile community. To be honest I probaly would have went with another speaker system if I did not get my bose 901's at a reasonable price but they are damn good at what they do. their biggest problem is that they MUST be set up to spec to get the optimal performance. It is rare that they ever are in a store or home situation. Mine are NOT that is why I have the subwoofer.

IMHO I think the PA is an interesting idea but for small venues only.
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Paul Templeman
Posted 2003-12-02 6:38 PM (#198432 - in reply to #198423)
Subject: Re: new Bose system


Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 5750

Location: Scotland
750 watts? That's plenty, especially if every band member has one, but I'd have to question purely from a health & safety angle, the concept of locating a 750watt sound-system in close proximity to the player. I personaly would not stand directly in front of, or close to a loudspeaker that powerful for any length of time. I never go on stage, or for that matter to any performance without hearing protection. To put 750 watts into perspective;- A 15 watt guitar amp is capable of SPL's of over 100dB at 1 metre and that's enough to cause serious hearing damage. Do we know if Boses' 750 watts is an RMS or peak rating? Either way it's very interesting and I'll reserve judgement until I can hear this system for myself.
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samova
Posted 2003-12-02 8:04 PM (#198433 - in reply to #198423)
Subject: Re: new Bose system


Joined:
January 2002
Posts: 970

Location: Atlanta,Ga.
I cant believe im the first to say this..

"No highs, no lows ,must be Bose"
sorry,had to say that..
Actually i use a pair of 901 series 2 at home as well with an early Marantz reciever..185watts per channel..It sounds pretty damn good..I would be interested in hearing this new system..The local guitar center sent me an invitation to go to a presentation of this new Bose system.I passed on it that evening..
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Beal
Posted 2003-12-02 8:40 PM (#198434 - in reply to #198423)
Subject: Re: new Bose system



Joined:
January 2002
Posts: 14127

Location: 6 String Ranch
What's wrong with running a boom box through a twin? It gets good sound.
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Todd G.
Posted 2003-12-06 4:24 PM (#198435 - in reply to #198423)
Subject: Re: new Bose system


Joined:
September 2003
Posts: 815

Location: Colorado
Want to read up on one consumer's view of Bose? Much of what he says agrees with many points I made long before reading this. Use this link:

http://www.intellexual.net/bose.html

Although it has nothing to do with the system that was originally mentioned on this thread, I think it provides a clear view into the Bose philosophy of doing things.

Happy reading. This is a long article and review.

Todd
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amplayer
Posted 2003-12-06 5:17 PM (#198436 - in reply to #198423)
Subject: Re: new Bose system


Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 13

Location: Salem, NH
I have been to a show of one of Bose endorsees using the PAS (Personal Amplification System). They were playing at a "jazz" club in Boston, but the music they played is more like funk/prog rock with elements of soul. The band was the Thaddeus Hogarth band, and it is composed of EXCELLENT musicians. It was a 4 piece band: Guitar, bass, drums, keys. All of them sang backup, but mostly it was Thaddeus singing. The club was medium size, and I'd say there was about 100 to 150 people there. They had no amplifiers (other than the Bose PAS) at all. All the instruments and microphones were plugged directly into the BOSE stick things. They were using 4 BOSE subwoofers, and I think 3 or 4 of the stick things.

Here are my observations, but please keep in mind that they are only observations. I don't claim to know everything.
1) The Bose stick things have 3 inputs each, and can also drive 2 subwoofers each. There is a small mixer on board. In this respect, it is similar to the JBL EONs and the EV SxA series products. I can't remember the exact details of the inputs, like how many of them include mic preamps, but at least one input does include a mic preamp.
2) With the exception of the Bass (see below), everything sounded wonderful all throughout the entire room. Considering how much sound they were putting out, I was extremely impressed. I think it is entirely possible that bands that play in smaller or medium sized rooms could use this system and get a very good sound without a mixing engineer. The band hears exactly the same thing the audience hears, and that certainly limits the type of bands it would work with. Because most musicians like to hear theirselves much louder than everyone else, it probably only will work for bands that either don't have too many instruments, or that have a dictator style leader.
3) The Bass guitar didn't carry to the back of the room. In front it sounded great, but it wasn't loud enough at the back. The Bose guy there said that the Bass player needed to use four subwoofers to carry to the back of the room, and for that, a separate power amp would be needed because each stick can only drive at most 2 subwoofers. Though the band had 4 subwoofers, only 2 of them were attached to the bass players Bose stick.
4) Thaddeus lead vocal would occasionally be distorted when he sang really loud. I can't say whether it was because the mic itself couldn't handle the SPL, or whether it was the Bose preamp, but I'd guess the preamp was the issue.
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amplayer
Posted 2003-12-06 5:20 PM (#198437 - in reply to #198423)
Subject: Re: new Bose system


Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 13

Location: Salem, NH
I forgot to mention that Thaddeus guitar was going through a Line6 POD before it went to the stick. Also, the drums were being mic'd and then sent to a separate little mixer before being sent to the stick. I think the extra mixer was only needed because the sticks only have 3 inputs.
I believe the bass and keys were plugged direct to the sticks.
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Strummin12
Posted 2004-01-05 12:45 PM (#198438 - in reply to #198423)
Subject: Re: new Bose system


Joined:
August 2002
Posts: 623

Location: Lake Hiawatha, New Jersey
Hey Cliff-

Robert Matarazzo now has one of these bose PAs. I saw him play last week at the Town Grind in Denville, a decent sized coffee house.

The system sounded good, though initially it didn't sound any different to me than than his older gear, and I didn't realize there was a different pa til part way into the set.

It was when I left and went into the bathroom, that I couldn't believe my ears. It was down the hall, several 90 degree turns away from the pa, and I hear it LOUD as if it was right outside the bathroom door. It didn't seem too loud in the main room, but this pa really makes the sound travel well.

I was speaking to his brother after the show (who I don't know how much accurrate info he had) but he showed me the system up close. It has 99 eq presets (for specific, different mics, guitars etc.) on the base of the system (weighing approx 45 lbs), and an eq remote dial that sits on the mic stand..actually looked much like a tv remote..so he can make changes on the fly while playing. He had a sub woofer too. His brother said that the system was was 1400 watts, and it cost $2000. He also said that they weren't available on the east coast yet, but Robert knows someone who works for Bose, so he was able to get one early.

According to his brother, Bose made a demonstration at a music gear show, where a band was playing with a huge wall of pa speakers/amps behind them. As the band kept playing the set, tech guys slowly disassembled the "massive" system to reveal that the system really only consisted of 5 of these new towers, one behind each guy. Apparantly is was quite dramatic.

The whole thing dis/assembles quick and fits in the car with tons of room to spare.

They currently seem to be available for sale on the bose website.

Johnny
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playadamas
Posted 2004-01-06 12:32 AM (#198439 - in reply to #198423)
Subject: Re: new Bose system


Joined:
August 2002
Posts: 398

Location: So. Cal.
Johnny,

I have the Bose L1 for a few weeks now. When I tested the system at GC, I walked around the room (about 400-500 sq.ft.) and noticed the same thing - sound source didn't seem to change at all. I have the system installed in my office (small conference room) since. The sound is never too loud even sitting 2 ft. from it. I tried it with different O's plugged in and an Alesis QS8.1, they all sounded great especially an '88. Vocal is quite nice as far as I can tell from limited tests. I have yet to try electric guitars with overdrive and distortion. I am going to take this system to a small jam session in a few weeks - will report more findings then.
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