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December 2003
Posts: 95
Location: Fort worth Texas | I have a band that I have been trying to get off the ground for almost 3 years now. We are 4 strong musicians on the same page with similar personalities and musical ability. Our problem is the 5th element to our project the guitar player position.
It has been our experience that all good guitar players are flaky as hell.
We have had a variety of excuses of why these guys dont make it after they are hired in, and every excuse is something that they agree isnt going to be a problem before they are hired.
1. cant watch my old lady from the stage and she wants to screw everyone but me
2. the drive is to far
3.I dont want to practice on Saturdays
4.I need to stop drinking and I cant quit while being in a bar atmosphere
5.I dont want to be bothered with alternate tunings
Really the list goes on and we have heard it all.
We have placed ads on every freakin site on the internet and at local guitar stores, and I know there is someone out there who would be perfect for this project. But damn after 3 years of searching we are all pretty disapointed and tired.
my questions are
Why are the GOOD guitarists so damn flaky?
When is a good time to just give up on a project and start over.
I would like to hear how other musicians have dealt with this situation.
Thanx for your time and replies :confused: |
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Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 420
Location: On the beach in Southwest Florida | Once someone finds a really good one that isn't flakey they never let them go. (And don't let them sniff the guitar polish!) |
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August 2002
Posts: 623
Location: Lake Hiawatha, New Jersey | Guitarists are a dime a dozen, as opposed to finding a good, compatable singer, bass player or drummer. All the ads I ever see are searching for those.
Why not just BE that guitarist instead of searching for one?
The headaches of band "issues" put a bad taste in my mouth years ago. If you have good musicians who are dedicated and responsible, who can reasonably see eye to eye in their vision for the band, you have a REAL blessing in life.
Johnny |
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December 2001
Posts: 7210
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | I think the "flakey" title fits ANY player of ANY instrument. Our demon was drummers. In artistic endeavors, when you have a group of like-minded folks together, if someone really isn't on the page, it comes to the surface quickly. The hard part is letting them go. With us, our drummer was our friend. He was an excellent drummer, and a nice guy. But he didn't really get the music, although he claimed he did. The hard part was finding someone that was as good, that would practice, and really understood the music.
What didn't help, and this is a common scenario, is when we got together the first time (bass, guitar and drums) we wrote three really good songs. It looked like the drummer was a fit. Unfortunatly the drummer thought all of those first songs, were "the sound" and in fact the Bass and Myself thought that was just the begining of a much different sound.
It's a little hard to explain, maybe someone else can explain it better. But basically, learn to recognize a TRUE FIT and don't waste time with someone that isn't no matter how good they are.
If you are having trouble finding a "true fit" then just get a hired gun so you can play gigs (if that is your thing). A player that is there to learn the songs and play them and is not really part of the creative process. Once you are playing, you will have guitar players coming to you, or at least you will be exposed to more musicians that want to be part of the project. Maybe even the hired player may convert, but at least he will show up and do what he's supposed too. |
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Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | Possibly because it's that most of the good players who aren't flakes have as much work as they can handle. Good players with a good attitude generally get as much or more work than amazing players who are also assholes. I'd agree with Miles, in my experience the whole egomaniacal, unreliabile, lazy, drunken thing is typical of a certain type of musician but not specific to guitarists.
My band struggled to find a good bass player who could sing BV's. We found a bunch who were great but we knew we'd end up having to kill them and dump the body in a ditch after a few months together. Our singer decided to play bass & we hired a friend who was an adequate rhythm player/backing vocalist. It worked out fine & several years on the singer has become a pretty good bass-player & we are pretty much devoid of ego problems. Except when the other 3 assholes I work with don't let me have enough solos. |
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March 2002
Posts: 1380
Location: Central Oregon | Originally posted by Strummin12:
Why not just BE that guitarist instead of searching for one?
Johnny
I'm not a professional musician but I think Johnny has the right idea. If you want something done a certain way, do it yourself. With steady practice you could have gotten pretty good in the three years you've spent looking so far :) I realize you probably have a lot of other things to deal with but it's something to strive for.
/\/\/ |
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February 2003
Posts: 299
Location: Netherlands | Is there no good guitarplayer you've played with for a long time in the past? I ended up after numerous changes in my band to call my old friends from university after 8 years, and we've been playinag for 5 years now without any problems.
Martin |
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December 2001
Posts: 10581
Location: NJ | since 1985 I have been the only guitarist in the band. We had a sax player for a lot of years. (talk about people with problems just hook up with a horn play with charlie parker problems) We now have a keyboard player. add another guitar player hell no I like it this way |
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February 2003
Posts: 299
Location: Netherlands | Never thought of it from that point of view.
Maybe i'm the flaky guitarplayer in my bands ?!?!?
It sure explains why they couldn't stop laughing when I fired the whole band.
:)
Martin |
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October 2002
Posts: 56
| Consider a career playing solo? ;) |
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December 2001
Posts: 10581
Location: NJ | Originally posted by Alina:
Consider a career playing solo? ;)
so low you gotta play bass. |
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Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 95
Location: Fort worth Texas | thanx for the GOOD advice. I really appreciate it. I really dont think of myself as a great guitar player especially when I have to play and sing and run the board not to mention market the band haul the pa and book the gigs....whew!
I am not sure what I am doing wrong but it seems most of you guys have had the hard to find positions as I do. This is a comfort to me. I am entertaining the idea of doing some acoustic stuff with the rest of the band. but my heart is in rock and roll like its supposed to be. Mr Ovation thanx |
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December 2003
Posts: 5
Location: clemson sc usa | My problem with guitar players or keyboardists were always, that they'll collide with my vocals. Now I force them to sing as well, which makes them play tightier. By making them sing the harmonies etc.. you may keep them interested, and they stop thinking that they're the best on their instrument. |
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May 2003
Posts: 4389
Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | Blaze,
Guitarists acting like a--holes! Why, that's impossible! |
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March 2002
Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | Blaze;
Have you tried:
www.themode.com |
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December 2002
Posts: 939
Location: Fort Worth, Texas | I guess I lucked out in my first real band experience - we're all pretty easy going and have worked up a sound we all like. All being in our late 30's to early 50's probably helps, too.
Of course this was after the main bass player and the main lead guitar player both left the band in a matter of weeks. It wasn't so bad when the bass player left, two of us were playing the bass on other songs already and we basically had two rythym guitarists/vocalists going (or just sitting out a song, or trying to add some percussion part) so the two rythym guitarist trade off on bass now, and turns out I LIKE playing the bass, just can't sing my lead vocal parts and play bass at the same time :(
It was when the lead player left just days before a gig, we panicked, tried to hire a guy that came to one rehearsal and then he backed out at the last minute. Well we made it through that gig and just concentrated on the four of us that were left, now I play a little lead, a lotta bass and the former rythym only player now plays bass and drums (the fact that we told HER that a female bass player is sooo sexy, and, geez, a female drummer is sooooo sexy had nothing to do with it) and the drummer comes out and plays some lead guitar.
Turns out we had all we needed to get a good sound, now if the right player comes along, well. they come along and maybe can join in..... |
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Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 95
Location: Fort worth Texas | Just tried the mode,.. no listings in my area for guitar players but thanx anyhow. You know,... I could handle a guitar player who is an asshole as long as he is good enough at his talent and the flake factor is low. What I mean by that is he/she dosent freak out and quit or do something so far out in left feild. |
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December 2001
Posts: 7210
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | What I mean by that is he/she dosent freak out and quit or do something so far out in left feild.[/QB]
LOL I guess what I was trying to get across is that if when you meet a new musician for your group, assuming you're not going the hired gun route, than if you find yourself asking ANY of the above questions, move on. I guess I can explain by example. One of the first "gigging" bands I was in I played Bass. I was invited to a party to "sit in" on Bass. I am not a bass player, but it's fun to noodle. About a year (or maybe 30 gigs) later, I realized I was a member of the band. There was no discussion, no thoughts, it just was. If someone the day you get together the first time is "well I can only do this on x, y and z day" and I need "l, m , n" for that... MOVE ON. The mere fact they are bringing it up is because they consider it a possibility that they won't belong. Look at it from the musicians angle. If you go and audition for a group you really like and afterwards say to yourself "I sure hope I can make it all the way out here every week...." You're not really interested.
I know this is hard when you are hungry to play. But trust me, DON'T SETTLE... life is too short. |
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Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 95
Location: Fort worth Texas | makes good sense thanx Mr Ovation. I will post up some pics of my new O when I get the damn thing its been a week and Im chomping at the bit to get it DAMN UPS |
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Whats up with the good guitarists?
