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 Ugly CA Legacy AE
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| Forums Archive -> The Vault: 2004-2005 | Message format | |
samova |
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Joined: January 2002 Posts: 970 Location: Atlanta,Ga. | Shar, the list price came direct from the rep at CA guitars.I spoke with him on the phone and although they do not have list price(only players price)he told me that the list would be $2199 if they used list price.He had some other name for the list price which i cannot remember. Miles, i totally agree that CA guitars will take away more business from Taylor,Martin,Larrivee and Rainsong than from Ovation but since the CA and Ovation have so much in common, they record well and are good sturdy stage guitars inevitably it will take away from Ovation some as well. Miles, i also understand that constant conversation about other guitars like CA on the Ovation fan club is probably not what you and Al want to see and it might make you uncomfortable but i think it is healthy discussing and comparing other products on this site. Roger, the bias towards Ovation at Gruins is huge.I have spoken to several salespeople there and they dont want ovations anywhere near their store..If there is an O at Gruins they basically got it dirt cheap in a trade.I bought two early shiny balladeers(67's) from them a few years ago and they did not even want bother getting a ladder to bring them down from the guitar hangers.They were laughing that anyone would even want to look at them..They told me streight out that they dont want these guitars in the store..However they have warmed up to the CA guitars nicely and speak highly of them..I think they sell them there.. | ||
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| alpep |
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Joined: December 2001 Posts: 10581 Location: NJ | Sam there was only one person who was asked to take a break from this board and he chose not to come back. Open discussion is valuable about any brand and I don't want to censor comments BUT with that said I think you have to understand that my view about CA guitars comes from my first hand knowledge of them looking at them and playing them and my gazillion years involved in the guitar biz. do you remember when watts were rated in Peak performance? and a true 50 watt stereo was rated at 200 watts. that is the impression I am getting with CA's pricing plan. Well 'if we had a list it would be 3K" but we don't we have a player's price so it is 1300. sorta like the saturn car tactic. so people don't want to believe they bought a 1300 guitar they want to believe they bought a 3K guitar. so you come up with some goofy pricing theme and you got it. Sam one last point. You know Ovation's history better than I and you will have to admit that Ovation RULED the acoustic/electric market until basically the 90's. In the 70's and 80's I remember Martin saying if you want an electric don't buy one of our guitars there are others out there that do it better. with the new guitars release it seems like ovation is getting back to its roots and will absolutely get some more push. In conclusion, when I played and looked at a CA I said to myself this is not 3K worth of a guitar. When I look at any model ovation and its list I can honestly say it is well worth the price. | ||
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| Nils |
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Joined: March 2002 Posts: 1380 Location: Central Oregon | That would be a good looking guitar if I was a love struck manatee. Ugh. /\/\/ | ||
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| Bailey |
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Joined: May 2002 Posts: 3005 Location: Las Cruces, NM | OK As requested, here's what they said ($1400 street) "The Legacy doesn't replicate the sound of a fine wooden dreadnought. Instead it has a fresh compelling voice of it's own, which I'd describe as clear, immediate, and ringing.It's a hi-fi sound with pronounced, harmonious overtones and magnificant sustain. Boasting fulgent timbres, spot on intonation,flexible Fishman electronics,and awesome durability coupled with a very light body (which is also available in luscious metallic red, green, or silver), the Legacy will make an ideal touring flat-top, whether you're performing as a soloist or rocking out in a band." WOW, "fulgent timbres..awesome durability..luscious mettallic red.." Truly unbiased journalism of the sort to make publicist weep tears of pure commercialism. | ||
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| cliff |
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Joined: March 2002 Posts: 14842 Location: NJ | True story: The morning of Dec. 26th, I'm walking from our tentsite to the men's showers and lavvy-loos in the campground. I'm just coming off of having an absolute perfect Christmas Day in KeyWest (and a night of goodly partaking of Myer's Rum) and having the time of my life. I'm walking past one of our neighbors' waterfront campsites - two couples of New Yawkers. The women are clearing the morning's dishes, the men getting their "toys" ready for the beach. The "bigger" of the two men is reaching behind his head struggling to pull up the zipper of the grey wetsuit he has just manage to squeeze into. His friend looks at him from across the tentsite, finshing the last dregs of his coffee cup and "sez": ". . 'ay Artie (pronounced "Ottie")! 'ya look like one o'dem fuggin' fiberglass manatees that hold up the friggin' MAILBOXES on d'highway!!! . ." (a "Florida thing"). I nearly shat myself laughing so hard!!! :D Back to the CA's: The main critique the majority of people have seems to be with the CA's overall acoustic sound. Anybody have any experience with it in a "live" situation? That'd probably be the only reason I'd even remotely consider one. How are the electronics? Are they proprietary or an after-market(Fishman?)? If they're capable of producing a "useable" live sound (that can be "seasoned" after-the-fact), then they might serve as a good "bar guitar" as you would not have to worry about banging up a really nice spruce (or Adamas) top while doing nightly battle with all those damn druken mic stands that wander around in the early AM hours. I'd consider a decent sounding (plugged in) guitar that all I had to really "worry" about was NOT snapping the neck off of. However, I wouldn't EVEN consider a "utility" guitar like that at ANY of the prices discussed thusfar. For that kind of money I could buy TWO Elite T's and have the same amount of "worry" (and have two guitars that I know sound nice "acoustically"). | ||
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| samova |
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Joined: January 2002 Posts: 970 Location: Atlanta,Ga. | Here are a few more reviews in case anyone is interested.I would like to hear from those of you going to the namm show how the X model sounds. How significant is the X? According to the world's leading authority on guitars, George Gruhn, “It should be noted that there are some remarkable new products such as the new CA carbon graphite X model guitar with contours unlike any that can be achieved on a wood body acoustic guitar, but still offering a great acoustic sound. George Gruhn, Gruhn Internet Newsletter, July , 2003 CA Artist Bob Minner on Tim McGraw's NBC Special "Sing Me Home" CA Guitars is proud to announce that CA Artist Bob Minner will be featured on Tim McGraw's NBC Special “Sing Me Home” airing Wednesday, November 27th on NBC. You will also see and hear multi-instrumentalist Dean Brown, also a CA endorser, playing his Legacy. The McGraw Band is scheduled to make five seperate television appearances through the end of the year, with at least two of them being acoustic performances. Expect to hear and see many different CA instruments during these performances. CA Guitars and Seattle's Experience Music Project CA Guitars has delivered two Legacy AE™ composite acoustic guitars to be used at the Experience Music Project's totally interactive Sound Lab. This unique attraction allows EMP visitors to actually experiment with a variety of instruments from electric and acoustic guitars to keyboards, drums, and even mixing and sampling equipment. EMP has many exciting things to say about CA Guitars, our instruments, and our innovative technology such as, "While other companies have previously experimented with cutting-edge materials, CA is the first to create a stable (and boldly attractive) acoustic guitar that also features a remarkably pleasing and quite natural tone”. | ||
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| alpep |
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Joined: December 2001 Posts: 10581 Location: NJ | Sam this sounds like all promo stuff from their website and that is fine BUT you know as well as I that it is all part of their marketing and not independent evaluations. Hey we can quote Dave Mustaine and Lenny Kravitz as ovation users but what real purpose does it serve?? | ||
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| Standingovation |
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Joined: June 2002 Posts: 6192 Location: Phoenix AZ | And in the mean time the Adamas Q ...... | ||
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| shar |
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Joined: December 2003 Posts: 43 | Alpep hi, What's that suppose to mean????? :confused: :confused: what is going on in this board? :confused: | ||
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| Old Applause Owner |
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Joined: July 2003 Posts: 1922 Location: Canton (Detroit), MI | I sure hope the LX guitars can bring Ovation guitars back to a higher status with acoustic players again....but with the "ok, well we'll review it, but we're not gonna like it(also called 'damning with faint praise')" type review they got from Acoustic Guitar this month on the 1777 Legend LX, it sure doesn't help! At least it did alert potential customers to its existence..... Roger 1976 Applause AA14-4 6-String 2001 Adamas 1598-MERB Melissa Etheridge 12-String 2003 Celebrity CC01 Spruce Top 6-String COMING SOON - 19?? Glen Campbell 12-string | ||
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| samova |
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Joined: January 2002 Posts: 970 Location: Atlanta,Ga. | Dave, about the Q.In my opinion i dont think we will ever see a production model called the Q but hopefully from the many years of developement on the Q we will see some of the technology eventually find its way on to regular ovation production models..Hopefully a new Adamas with the Q technology for under $2000(wishful thinking). | ||
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| MWoody |
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Joined: December 2003 Posts: 13983 Location: Upper Left USA | While the opinions, likes and dislikes of this obviously O positive board are educational and entertaining I find the issues around marketing and future products the most ineresting and the least answered. Marketing: If Milli Vanilli had carried Ovations in their photo ops we would be considered trash. I am ever thankful that "Britny" doesn't play. Are We (Ovation USA) learning from the successes of AE when they are able to market a woodless high priced instrument that can generate such varied opinions? Future Products: Why are we so out of the loop that we didn't see the LX series coming - or is the security of new efforts that secretive? I am drawn to the Ovations not because of abundant superiority but more because of the WYSWYG (wassy-wig) factor. What You See is What You Get. I want to see amazing things come out of the factory and I like to see them in the hands of honest, hard working Musician's that really use them. If we loose some market share because we don't rent enough ad space in a certain magazine I can live with that. If you see that your subscribed rag goes flowery on a brand that they worship and they don't give ours the light of day - respond! As for the mass market: People are sheep. | ||
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| moody, p.i. |
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Joined: March 2002 Posts: 15654 Location: SoCal | People are sheep?? Except you? Go back thru the archives. I think you'll see a lot of discussions on these topics, ie marketing, new products, Ovation as a plugged in guitar, Ovation as an acoustic guitar, etc. It's ground that has been covered many times. So this afternoon, make some nachos, get an ice cold long neck and enjoy the ride thru the archives. I will say this about the points you raised. Ovation is moving in a direction that they haven't been moving in for 20 years -- namely making a better acoustic guitar, not just one that can be plugged in. The first sign we saw was the limited edition Folklore Deluxe. Then the 12 fret Adamas slothead (which received excellent reviews), and now the LX models and the Custom Legend reissue. Ovation sells everything they make now, yet they are willing to move in new direction. Be patient. And enjoy the beer and nachos. | ||
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| MWoody |
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Joined: December 2003 Posts: 13983 Location: Upper Left USA | Moody, I accept your gentle scorching as I am new to this board. I’ll interpret it to mean “Go back and do your homework son and come back when you know what you’re talking about”. I am still trying to figure out exactly which nerve I stepped on though. I want to stay off the CA’s are ugly/CA’s are wonderful string and I was hoping to hear (read) more about Ovation’s direction. Marketing: My reference to sheep is mainly pointed at the mass market in general. It is not the professionals and faithful specialists that will ensure the economy of any product line. It is the flock of first and second time buyers – hopefully looking at the experts to help mold their opinions. Yes, I am usually part of the flock. (sheepish grin, Have any of you ever tried to play a Telecoustic? Try the Barbie Glitter model!) New lines: Ovation has been making a better acoustic guitar. I hope to see this continue. I feel a sense of ownership with them although they don’t send me the Xmas cards that some of you got. I’m sure some on this board know more about upcoming changes and if that was the nerve I hit I’m sorry. I would just like to see more information on how O plans to improve. | ||
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| moody, p.i. |
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Joined: March 2002 Posts: 15654 Location: SoCal | You didn't exactly step on a nerve, but my work takes me out among the "sheep" all the time. It's when you start thinking along the lines that "all are sheep", that they will surprise the hell out of you. Our politicians out here made that mistake and got bit. As to the "do your homework", you can't know it's there until somebody tells you. And to be quite honest, I envy you getting to go thru the archives for the first time. I'm about on my 4th time thru and learn more and continue to enjoy them every single time. It truly makes for a wonderful beer and nachos kind of afternoon. | ||
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| Old Applause Owner |
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Joined: July 2003 Posts: 1922 Location: Canton (Detroit), MI | Going back to the Adamas Q.....I would not expect to see a production guitar called the Q....my take is it is what we in the R & D biz call a "technology demonstrator", to show that a concept or a feature WORKS, before introducing it on a production model. There are many types of technology demonstrators, some are public, like show cars at auto shows, some are internal to a company and never meant to be seen. How do we know that a feature or two from the Q didn't find its way into the LX???? Also, I finally saw the guitar that started this string today in Guitar Player....actually, I kinda LIKE it....but, then, I think Rainsongs are interesting, too. No accounting for taste, or lack or it, I guess. :eek: Roger 1976 Applause AA14-4 6-String 2001 Adamas 1598-MERB Melissa Etheridge 12-String 2003 Celebrity CC01 Spruce Top 6-String COMING SOON - 19?? Glen Campbell 12-string | ||
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| MWoody |
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Joined: December 2003 Posts: 13983 Location: Upper Left USA | Cool. I will run through the archives to draw a better base. I have traded the nachos for General Tso's chicken and some Egg Rolls. The greatest gift God gives us is choice! It's what we do with it that has us in the state we are in. I don't imagine people call in a detective to tell them why everything is going so good lately. Your job is going into my prayers. ...Now, about the future of the acoustic Os... | ||
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| Bailey |
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Joined: May 2002 Posts: 3005 Location: Las Cruces, NM | MWoody To reiterate what Mr. Pi is saying, we have been trying to rip a new a--hole, figuratively, at the O factory to try to solve the problem that no new artists seem to be playing Ovations. We, the lunatic fringe, have been saying that artists will gravitate to a guitar brand that will provide them with quality instruments at a decent price when they are learning their trade, every musician goes through the period in their career when money matters. Things like the EliteT are steps in that direction. The next period is the one where the cost of instruments is not as important as quality and reliability, here is where the Adamas and high quality Custom Legends etc. should emerge, the final period is professional success, and here is where Ovation's willingness to build any guitar you want or can imagine should kick in. Ovation seems to have lost the battle for the final stages, even though they are selling many guitars. They have some great possibilities but there seems to be an anti Ovation thread out there that needs to be overcome. In my humble opinion, new members like yourself and others are the opportunity to get insight into what might improve the image, so speak your mind as honestly and critically as you can. No success was ever based on the opinions of those who are timid (that is, yes men/women). If you see a flaw, point it out and we will all benefit. Bailey | ||
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| Old Applause Owner |
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Joined: July 2003 Posts: 1922 Location: Canton (Detroit), MI | Bailey, I think Ovation is losing the battle for the "arrived" artists lately because there is a tremendous movement in "back to natural" in music....that is why acoustic music is experiencing the resergence it is. It is "cooler" to be seen playing an all-wood guitar now. I would call it an "anti-technology" thing, almost. Those who are interested and willing to be seen riding the tech edge in instruments are going more for the CA and Rainsong.....Ovation isn't edgy enough!!!! Unfortunately, Martin, Gibson and Taylor are perfectly placed marketing-wise....and Martin has the history to give themselves the "coolest" status. Plus they all seem very willing to put out endless numbers of artist signature series guitars, which is great PR. Ovation has the problem that Adamas is not seen as a premium instrument, although sound-wise and quality-wise, it is up with any of them. My ME 12-string is the finest sounding guitar I have ever played. I think the problem is IMAGE, or LACK OF SAME. We need some pictures of Kaki King playing an Adamas in Adamas-specific ads....Melissa Etheridge, Godsmack as well....ads with artist endorsements can start the ball rolling..... Roger 1976 Applause AA14-4 6-String 2001 Adamas 1598-MERB Melissa Etheridge 12-String 2003 Celebrity CC01 Spruce Top 6-String COMING SOON - 19?? Glen Campbell 12-string | ||
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| Bailey |
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Joined: May 2002 Posts: 3005 Location: Las Cruces, NM | Roger Very good comments, and let me add something, the Adamas is a great guitar but I believe, and this is just my idiotic opinion, that the Adamas (and pictures of the proposed Q) lacks (what would be called in a song, a hook) a distinguishing feature that would cause someone to say "I want that guitar". I accuse Ovation of being so proud of their technology and sound with the Adamas that they have ignored the appearance, to me, the damn thing looks dowdy. Have at it Adamas people, and maybe after you have reamed my ass you will have suggested some changes that will make an Adamas as desired as a Martin D-45. :rolleyes: :p ;) | ||
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| MWoody |
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Joined: December 2003 Posts: 13983 Location: Upper Left USA | My thanks to the many opinions and directions expressed on this board. As a result I have sent back my CP2003H,(the honey coated panelmeister), which I still consider to be an excellant guitar. I have asked Al to fetch me an Elite LX while he beats the pavement in Annaheim. :D It's not too often that an old married guy gets permission and the funds for a great guitar in between remodels and orthodontist waves. Perhaps the LX upgrade is the hook! Because I think I swallowed it. Perhaps by next Christmas I can look for a 12 string :) | ||
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