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strage Custom Balladeer on ebay

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Legend-LX-Fan
Posted 2004-01-10 8:13 PM (#197498)
Subject: strage Custom Balladeer on ebay


Joined:
November 2002
Posts: 1196

Location: Lafayette, Louisiana
This Custom Balladeer on ebay is listed as a 1712-C. It appears to have a satin finished natural spruce top, and inlays only at the 12th fret. Does anyone know about this guitar? Was it a production model?
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Paul Templeman
Posted 2004-01-10 8:28 PM (#197499 - in reply to #197498)
Subject: Re: strage Custom Balladeer on ebay


Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 5750

Location: Scotland
If memory serves these were among the last of the Custom Balladeers, maybe around 94/95 & the "C" suffix indicates a cedar rather than a spruce top.
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Legend-LX-Fan
Posted 2004-01-10 10:00 PM (#197500 - in reply to #197498)
Subject: Re: strage Custom Balladeer on ebay


Joined:
November 2002
Posts: 1196

Location: Lafayette, Louisiana
Thanks Paul T. The cedar top looks nice on that guitar. Why do you think it has a satin finish? And, what is your opinion of the sound of the cedar top compared to the spruce? And is the cedar top as tough as a spruce top?
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Paul Templeman
Posted 2004-01-10 10:35 PM (#197501 - in reply to #197498)
Subject: Re: strage Custom Balladeer on ebay


Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 5750

Location: Scotland
Satin finishes are cheaper to produce than gloss, so it keeps the cost down but can have a tonal benefit as the finish is very thin. Cedar is softer than spruce & generally not as stiff, so Cedar tops tend to be around a third thicker than a spruce top. Tonally Cedar is generally a little warmer and not as snappy as Spruce but is capable of producing great sounding guitars & personally I like it a lot. Some of the advantages of cedar are that a new guitar appears to play-in or "mature" much faster than spruce & a cedar-topped guitar looks like 30 year-old spruce the day the guitar is built. The disadvantages are that cedar marks easier than spruce, especially without a gloss finish and in my experience can be very hygroscopic, so tone & volume may be variable according to climate.
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Tony Calman
Posted 2004-01-10 10:52 PM (#197502 - in reply to #197498)
Subject: Re: strage Custom Balladeer on ebay



Joined:
August 2003
Posts: 4619

Location: SoCal
Paul H.,

The AAA cedar of the 1763 Classic is beautiful, a very warm sound.
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Legend-LX-Fan
Posted 2004-01-10 10:55 PM (#197503 - in reply to #197498)
Subject: Re: strage Custom Balladeer on ebay


Joined:
November 2002
Posts: 1196

Location: Lafayette, Louisiana
Tony, can you post a picture of that guitar? I bet it is a beauty.
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Tony Calman
Posted 2004-01-10 11:03 PM (#197504 - in reply to #197498)
Subject: Re: strage Custom Balladeer on ebay



Joined:
August 2003
Posts: 4619

Location: SoCal
Previously posted that case ended up being thrown away as soon as I got it - your case will be for the Classic. Did the job though - no marks at all on the guitar.

Will post when I get the 1658 slothead CL 12. Was supposed to be sent Thursday but seller hasn't provided tracking number (charged me $65 for shipping - ouch.) Wrote him again today. Hopefully, it is on its way.
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cliff
Posted 2004-01-12 10:42 AM (#197505 - in reply to #197498)
Subject: Re: strage Custom Balladeer on ebay


Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 14842

Location: NJ
H-m-m-m-m-m-mmmmm . . . . . . ...
Now you've got me wondering.

10-12 years ago, the crack in the top of my CBalladeer got so bad that the top actually split and the bridge lifted completely off (ouch!).
The guitar sat in it's case in the closet (unplayed) for a long time. About eight years ago, my ex-wife contacted Ovation about repairing it in time for my 40th birthday. My wife and daughter drove the guitar to the factory where they inspected it and agreed to replace the top. The only "catch" - it wouldn't be ready for my birthday. The alternative was to replace the entire BODY, which they did (including electronics). The body was/is beautiful, but the natural finish had a bit of a redder, "warmer" color than it's predecessor. I've had a couple people ask "is that cedar?" and I've always responded with "sitka spruce", but now I'm beginning to wonder. Were the cedar tops at that time (95/96) only done in a satin finish? The "body swap" on mine was done in that time frame, but my top has a gloss finish. I had always believed that it was a spruce top of very nice color. There's a pic or two of it in my gallery. If anybody has any thoughts, lemme know.

I suppose I could check with Kim to see if there's any kind of "repair history" on it, but there's no serial number on the guitar now. They did a great job at removing the silver foil label from the old body and applying it to the new one with minimal damage to the label, but the serial number never made the swap. Does the serial number stay with the "body"????
I'll need to do some desperate digging for my old original paperwork with the s/n and see if they even still have me on file! :rolleyes:
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Paul Templeman
Posted 2004-01-12 11:31 AM (#197506 - in reply to #197498)
Subject: Re: strage Custom Balladeer on ebay


Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 5750

Location: Scotland
Cliff, stick a mirror & a light inside the guitar. If the braces and underside of the top are the same colour it's spruce, if the top appears darker than the braces it's probably a cedar top.
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Standingovation
Posted 2004-01-12 11:38 AM (#197507 - in reply to #197498)
Subject: Re: strage Custom Balladeer on ebay



Joined:
June 2002
Posts: 6191

Location: Phoenix AZ
"... What is your opinion of the sound of a cedar top ..."

My Folklore Deluxe is a cedar top. Do I need to say more? Paul T. is right, cedar does not seem to have the "snap" of a spruce top. It's more mellow like a well worn in wooden guitar.

Dave
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Beal
Posted 2004-01-12 3:13 PM (#197508 - in reply to #197498)
Subject: Re: strage Custom Balladeer on ebay



Joined:
January 2002
Posts: 14127

Location: 6 String Ranch
Cliff, interesting concept, body swaps......
Have to think about that for a while....
Then there are mind swaps and personality upgrades...
might be on to something here.
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cliff
Posted 2004-01-12 3:37 PM (#197509 - in reply to #197498)
Subject: Re: strage Custom Balladeer on ebay


Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 14842

Location: NJ
It raises an interesting question, tho . .

. . . WHAT constitutes the actual ENTITY of a guitar???

I've always contended that I have a '76 CBalladeer. I guess in actuality, I might have a '95-6 CBalladeer with a '76 neck. In my own warped little mind, I always felt that a broken '76CB went IN to the factory to be fixed, and THIS guitar came OUT, so this is STILL a '76CB (I did say warped little mind, didn't I?).

I need to find my original documentation and see where I stand with the Factory on this . . .
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Standingovation
Posted 2004-01-12 3:58 PM (#197510 - in reply to #197498)
Subject: Re: strage Custom Balladeer on ebay



Joined:
June 2002
Posts: 6191

Location: Phoenix AZ
Let's see: Boob job, face lift, lipo ... how old IS she really? Back to guitars, my opinion is that you can never really change the born-on date. That's the date that Ovation injected the soul into the guitar. You can swap out everything until their is eventually nothing original remaining. But the soul is still there and that's the true born-on date of the guitar. Dave
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cliff
Posted 2004-01-12 4:06 PM (#197511 - in reply to #197498)
Subject: Re: strage Custom Balladeer on ebay


Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 14842

Location: NJ
My sentiments exactly.
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moody, p.i.
Posted 2004-01-12 5:00 PM (#197512 - in reply to #197498)
Subject: Re: strage Custom Balladeer on ebay


Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15651

Location: SoCal
Boob job, face lift, lipo....

Hell, I thought you were talking about guitars.

This reminds me of the story of the museum that has George Washington's ax. The head has been changed, and the handle has been changed, but it's George Washington's ax.
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Paul Templeman
Posted 2004-01-12 6:30 PM (#197513 - in reply to #197498)
Subject: Re: strage Custom Balladeer on ebay


Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 5750

Location: Scotland
Originally posted by cliff:
It raises an interesting question, tho . .

. . . WHAT constitutes the actual ENTITY of a guitar???



The player.
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Beal
Posted 2004-01-12 7:59 PM (#197514 - in reply to #197498)
Subject: Re: strage Custom Balladeer on ebay



Joined:
January 2002
Posts: 14127

Location: 6 String Ranch
All the above is true. But to take a stab at the question, I would look at what makes the sound and that's the starting point. New top and bowl, that's where the sound is, so maybe that's where the year is?
Here's a harder one, 57 strat body with a 79 neck, the body and pickups contribute the majority to the sound so it's a 57 that goes for less than market price.
Now it has new duncans, now it's a mongrel, original body but not worth much.
Most of these "hot rods" dilute from the guitar somewhat, particularly when they change the integrity of the instrument.

And then there's the case of the 31 Martin I just got, an O18K that was set up for hawaiian, raised nut, flat f/b and no frets. I had it comverted to original bar style frets, slightly rediused f/b and made it playably for a mainlander. Now the majority of us can use it and while it's not original it is actually worth a little more now because is has a wider marlet acceptance.

There's a few thoughts for the evening guys. Comments??
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moody, p.i.
Posted 2004-01-12 8:07 PM (#197515 - in reply to #197498)
Subject: Re: strage Custom Balladeer on ebay


Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15651

Location: SoCal
There are people who keep guitars pristine and unplayed, believing that they are increasing the value of the guitar. But they aren't enjoying them as guitars.

There are people who play their guitars, keep them in good condition, but don't obsess over every little nick. Who take an older guitar that's not playable and make it playable. When then proceed to enjoy the instrument for the music they can make and pleasure they can take.

Which guitar is worth more? How do you measure?
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Bailey
Posted 2004-01-13 1:49 AM (#197516 - in reply to #197498)
Subject: Re: strage Custom Balladeer on ebay


Joined:
May 2002
Posts: 3005

Location: Las Cruces, NM
Nobody I know got rich by watching a guitar age in its case. Every guitar that has a value, whatever the brand or model, was because of it's unique sound or it's choice by a star such as Chet's Gretchs. That's because every hacker says if I get one I'll sound just like Chet. Really, the best guitar is the one that sounds good and has survived years of pickin' and still works. I keep thinking of Willy's Martin that will be worth $10 million when, and if, Willy ever dies. (he may not, he's pickled in smoke).
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alpep
Posted 2004-01-13 8:56 AM (#197517 - in reply to #197498)
Subject: Re: strage Custom Balladeer on ebay


Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 10581

Location: NJ
I have a 59 strat with a 71-x? neck at the time the guy changed the neck the guitar was not worth anything. he wanted to make it playable the old neck was worn out and he got a new one. Well he made a 10K guitar into a 3K one but he did not know at the time all he wanted to do was make a guitar playable.

I have altered some instruments and have no regrets. I think it is ultimately up to the individual. In fact I have made a lot of money chnging guitars back to original condition and selling them. It always amazes me when I find a cheap inport strat style guitar with upgraded pickups tuners and bridge and I get the guitar for less then the cost of a used original one. part it out and then make 3 times the cash.

life is good.
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