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Posts: 425
Location: SE Michigan | I managed to scrape together some money for a new guitar, and I've got an itch for an Adamas. Elderly Music has a "shopworn" center hole 6591 ADAMAS SMOOTH TOP "SMT", (ROUND SOUNDHOLE) NATURAL GRAPHITE FINISH W/HSC, for $1095. Seems like a decent deal to me (I have yet to play it, Elderly is a two hour drive from me).
URL: http://www.elderly.com/new_instruments/items/6591SW-GRAPH.htm
I have seen a few posts where some members absolutely flame the center-hole Adamas. Are they really that bad? How come a center-hole Legend gets as many raves as the Elite models? I would think if center-holes were really that bad Legends would suck compared to Elites.
If the center holes are that bad, I guess I'll hold out till I have a little more to spend and get a SMT or CVT. There were also some interesting "export model" Adami on Lost Art Vintage Instruments as well that had the older style woven tops.
I play primarily un-plugged. I want great-unplugged sound. I want a buttery-smooth easy play-ability. And I want a guitar that isn't a sissy, something impervious to occasional abuse, humidity problems, and top cracking (my old Legend cracked). Sounds like an Adamas is something I could take to the grave with me, and it probably would still be in-tune when they lower me down.
I appreciate your thoughts
Thanks
Brian
1717 Legend
DS768 Long Neck
Stratocaster Deluxe |
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Posts: 6191
Location: Phoenix AZ | Others on this board will disagree, but here is Dave's rule of thumb: If you want a fiber top guitar, go multi soundhole adamas. If you want wood top guitar, go for a center sound hole Ovation. Just my opinion but I never liked the unplugged sound of the Elite. Always preferred the Legend. The advantage of the multi holed fiber top is that it is very thin and braced very lightly. So it really sings. Why would you want to put a big old sound hole in the middle of it? On the wood top guitars I think just the opposite is true. Maybe because the wood top is thicker. Give me a 1117 any day. Yo can get them for under $500. Dave |
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Posts: 7210
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | I may be missing something, but as Standingovation eluded to.... what's the point? (of a roundhole Adamas). As I learned last year, the TOP makes most of the sound. The Graphite top is supposed react and vibrate better than wood by composition as it's much thinner. Why would you put a big hole in the part of the top that could move the most air (read sound). Now some holes seem necessary to let out the "rest" of the sound from the body (the top has two sides afterall), but I just don't see putting a hole in the middle of the top. Now on wood top guitars, I can see where a lot more of the sound is coming from the cavity as the top doesn't move as much.
Now I am speaking like I know something on the subject and I don't, but this is my understanding. I find it analagous to putting say 1" holes around a 12" speaker cone. It's still gonna work, but it ain't gonna push much air. |
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Location: Las Cruces, NM | Brian
I won't get in to any theory at all, but repeat advice given over and over on this board that to me makes a lot of sense. If you are going to buy any expensive guitar that you hope to keep for your lifetime use, actually play it and listen to it's sound under real conditions. Have the seller put decent strings on it, have someone play it while you listen, etc.. There is enough variation in guitars that some will have that sound that you want no matter what the model. You are buying it for the sound, and listening is a great way to find out if it is what you want. If it doesn't impress you, don't buy it no matter what the model and make. That said, some chances can be taken based on the expert opinions of board members here who have played and owned many Ovations.
Bailey |
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Posts: 10581
Location: NJ | the design of the adamas came about by having more surface area to vibrate. cutting a big hole in the middle is counter to that theory.
otherwise play the guitar. |
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Posts: 1922
Location: Canton (Detroit), MI | Hi, Brian, I HAVE PLAYED the exact guitar you speak of....when I was there in mid-November....it sounds fine....my personal choice would be for the regular Adamas if you want the absolute best sound, though. The guitar does have that "Adamas sound", but I preferred the CVT they had over it.
But....compared to a Legend, it was probably a tiny bit better. I didn't play any of the guitars plugged in, though(gotta take it to the amp room some distance away---the Ovations are in a small room with the Takamines and some Gibsons).
Also, I personally didn't think it was that attractive, and it was indeed shopworn, with some scratches on it.
But if sound is your criteria, and you really want a center sound hole....I'd go for it. Good luck.
Roger
1976 Applause AA14-4 6-String
2001 Adamas 1598-MERB Melissa Etheridge 12-String
2003 Celebrity CC01 Spruce Top 6-String
COMING SOON - 19?? Glen Campbell 12-string |
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Posts: 425
Location: SE Michigan | Thanks for all of your responses, I'll play it and make a judgement then. BUT......
For the sake of scientific aurgument; I can understand the point about a larger surface area being better, but I don't understand why the same logic doesnt apply to a wood top guitar. After all, isn't the fiber top designed to emulate the properties of wood? And understanding that the wood top is thicker, it would seem even more important for the wood top to have a greater surface area. I'm not arguing the point one way or the other, I just dont understand why greater surface area is only important on an Adamas and not on a wood top. |
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Posts: 2246
Location: Yucaipa, California | My 2-cents.....
I have two Balladeers and I love them dearly, but I feel that there is something very special about the multi-hole sound that you just can't match with a roundhole.
Whenever I play my 2001 Collector's (redwood top, multi-hole), I am struck by the awsome tone and projection... maybe it's just me, but when I purchase another Ovation, it will be a multi and not a roundhole... probably an Elite or Adamas.....
IMHO
tim |
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Posts: 14127
Location: 6 String Ranch | The grafite top and brace system was designed with the mjultisound hole pattern. It works.
The round hole has been here for years and was built around wood being the material. It works. since woods vary quite a bit it works in many situations like archtops and other type configurations. While grafite works in other situations it doesn't work very well. In my experience a round hole legend will always blowaway a round hole grafite. Looking to the future the multiple hole model will have longevity, I think the round hole will be seen as the mongrel it is, just a quick attempt to squeeze a few extra bucks out of an idea, even when it's inappropriate. Sorry, there I go again, acting like I know what I'm talking about (you will notice that this didn't come out till after I was gone) |
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Posts: 15651
Location: SoCal | Comparing round hole Ovations to multi hole O's can be comparing apples to oranges. My 1983 Elite (model 1537), has a great sound plugged in or unplugged. My 1968 Deluxe Balladeer also has a great sound unplugged (no pickup). Which one I pick up depends upon the sound I'm looking for at the time.
If you want a truly great acoustic sound, take a look at Al's website http://www.lostartvintage.com and take a look at the Adamas W587t-7. I played one of these up in Hollywood last year, and if I wasn't so anally fixated on the Legend LX, I'd buy one. A little more money that the roundhole Adamas at Elderly, but a vastly superior sound. Clear, crisp, deep. Just incredible. Itwas only somebody whispering in my ear "new carpet" that kept me from spending the money. Talk to Al when he gets back from NAMM next week.
As to the round hole Adamas vs. the multi holeAdamas, I don't have a strong opinion. I think a lot of people here will tell you that the character of the Adamas is based on the multi hole design, and that the round hole was an effort to appease the more traditional market. It answers a question that was never asked (IMHO).
One final thought. You might consider waiting for a month or two and seeing what the 12 fret slothead Adamas looks like when it comes out. I haven't played one, but from what I've heard, and the one review I read, it sounds incredible. |
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Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | Brian,
If humidity is an issue, and you can afford it, then the adamas is the way to go, so don't look back on that account. As to roundhole or multihole, it's a matter of choice, but the whole point of a composite top is to transmit more sound and the multi-hole design does it better, so I'd stick with the mult-hole. The SMT, according to ovation's website, has more wood in it, than the CVT. You have to compare the two. While I've played both, I haven't been able to do a side by side comparison, so I can't make a recommendation there. I know that there's a previous post on here where the merits of round vs multi have been discussed. |
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Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | Since the basic CONCEPT of the Adamas top was moving the soundhole AWAY from the center, allowing for a much thinner top and minimal bracing to produce optimum sound . . . WHY go back to the initial step and put the soundhole (and the additional bracing needed to support it)
BACK into the top?
The old "tits on a nun" analogy seems to apply here. |
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Posts: 555
Location: Wooster, Ohio | I would agree with the argument that if the adamas top gives more surface to move air why wouldn't that be the same for wood? One thing that modern makers have done to hurt the round hole is to join the neck at the 14th fret, thus reducing the ability of the top to vibrate. I have always had elites, but I recently purchased a 97 collectors with a round whole and a 12 fret neck. I was amazed at the sound from this little guitar. I think that comes alot from the centering of the bridge over the vibrating top with the 12 fret.
Steve |
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Posts: 7210
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | "I would agree with the argument that if the adamas top gives more surface to move air why wouldn't that be the same for wood? "
As more than one person asked this question, I'll give a try on this as a non-tech. The Graphite top (which by the way is a laminite on wood to give it some body is EXTREMELY thin. The bracing you can actually see show through especially on the black models. The graphite is kept under control and the amount it moves tuned if you will by the bracing.
Wood just CAN'T move as much as the graphite so in an attempt to get more sound there is a hole to let sound out of the box too. The Adamas has a round back, so the box theory doesn't apply, but the epulet hole keep the preasure off the underside of the top by letting the back preassure and some sound too out of the bowl.
Basically it is APPLES and ORANGES as one post said. The Adamas "looks" like a standard design guitar... bridge, strings, etc. but, and the sound is created by the same principles. However, with a much different technique. |
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Posts: 6191
Location: Phoenix AZ | Interesting experiment I did a while ago. I took a deep bowl adamas and a deep bowl elite. I removed the back hatch door from each of them. I was in the process of swapping pre-amps, but I thought I'd give them each a strum or two with the back hatch open. The elite lost almost all of its tone - very thin in the bass and quiet. The adamas on the other hand still sounded quite full. Certainly not 100%, but not bad. I would conclude that the fiber sandwich top was much less dependent on the dody/bowl than the woody guitar. Maybe also explains why my shallow bowl adamas also sounds so damn good. Still prefer Legend style (Legend, CL, DB, GC DB) to any other wood topped guitar. Moral to the story - I like a woodie and one hole, nicely centered. If given the opportunity to use man-made materials, I'll go for multiple holes. Dave |
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Posts: 3005
Location: Las Cruces, NM | There is a perfectly logical reason why a wood top works with a round hole. A quality spruce top can be thought of as a bunch of wooden grain "strings" parallel to the neck. If you cut those "strings" as on a multi-hole guitar, you dampen them. The center is already dampened with the bridge, the bracing, the top, so the round hole does not add to the dampening as the area below the bridge can still vibrate. It is "apples and oranges", a good spruce top should not be cut in the areas that produce the sound, the composite top is more like a banjo top, that is, a streched membrane. All of you are only fooling yourself if you don't think a good Martin round hole sounds good, or a Custom Legend for that matter.
Bailey |
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Center Hole Adamas, are they really that bad?
