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Posts: 1922
Location: Canton (Detroit), MI | To add fuel to this already interesting fire....my GC 12-string arrived a couple of hours ago via UPS.....it was packed so that the guitar/case stood on its tail upright....there is one hole in the side of the box, but it appears that nothing got through to the case(zillions of styrofoam peanuts in the way). I opened the box top(which had a huge wad of bubble pack for cushion) and found that the metal strips on the case are COLD, so I am leaving it be for this evening....we will see the condition tomorrow morning.
The seller of my guitar sold another one on eBay at the same time (a Washburn) and it went to CA via USPS Priority Mail....it was significantly cheaper than UPS. I went UPS due to Al's recommendation, plus I wanted The UPS Store to do the packing(I would HOPE a professional place would pack better than an amateur).
If the guitar has been damaged, I'll pursue it and let you all know how it ends, but if it is, I probably won't spend any more time or money buying guitars on eBay......
Roger
1976 Applause AA14-4 6-String
2001 Adamas 1598-MERB Melissa Etheridge 12-String
2003 Celebrity CC01 Spruce Top 6-String
COMING SOON - 19?? Glen Campbell 12-string |
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Location: On the beach in Southwest Florida | What did the UPS store charge for packing? |
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Posts: 1380
Location: Central Oregon | Originally posted by Paul Blanchard:
Nils,
I believe you can insist that UPS deliver the wreckage to you. If they didn't pay you for it, it is still yours.
But I sure do understand your feelings toward UPS! Maybe I have become an enabler in my continuing to use their services, lol.
I probably could have demanded they give it back but I didn't want it. It was heavy & probably would have cost another $3.50 to throw it away! I just thought it would have been a nice gesture if they had asked me if I would like to have it since I did buy & pay for it. Not really a big deal, it was just a stupid TV/VCR. I've bought several since for less money at local hock shops. I really don't know what I was thinking when I bought that one off ebay. Duh.
Btw, I'll never buy anything electronic & heavy from ebay again. Too heavy, too fragile & too expensive if ruined. For instance, I would never consider buying an amplifier. I know, I know, many of you have gotten them with no problems, but I see no reason to chance it.
I have had 5 guitars shipped to me UPS & I've shipped two out via UPS with no major problems, although my 1612 arrived with the box beat up some & the truss rod nut up by the headstock in the OHSC. The volume pot was about to fall out too, & there were several very small dents in the neck & a little chip on one wing of the headstock that the seller said weren't there when he shipped it. Probably the nut bouncing around in there. It was well packed. I lucked out & the brass nut didn't ding the top.
On the other hand, the box Tony sent me USPS with the Collectors in it was in really nice shape compared to most of the ones that arrive UPS. No damage inside or out. Still, I really do think that shipping anything, no matter the carrier is a gamble, no matter what you do. The only way I feel completely at ease when having a guitar shipped to me is if it's going to a guitar store first like my 1858 did. If it had been damaged they would have had to order me another one. :)
This is a good thread, we have probably all had at least some experience with shipping guitars in one way or another. The more we know, & the more we share, the more likely we are to avoid some of the pitfalls.
/\/\/ |
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Location: Canton (Detroit), MI | Peter, the charge was $27.60 for Ground shipping, $15.00 for the packing, and $4.50 for insurance, as I wanted $400, and it is $1.50 per $100 over the first $100.
Looking at the package, I am not sure I got what I was expecting in packing quality....I have shipped bicycle frames via my local UPS Store and they did a MUCH better job of packing IMHO. But it does appear it was adequate and that is really what matters.
Roger
1976 Applause AA14-4 6-String
2001 Adamas 1598-MERB Melissa Etheridge 12-String
2003 Celebrity CC01 Spruce Top 6-String
GRAND OPENING SOON! - 19?? Glen Campbell 12-string |
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Posts: 613
Location: Zion, Illinois | Not shipping related but still important....
Make sure you take into account where it is being shipped from and to. I bought a beautiful Custom Legend a couple years back. I can't remember where it was shipped from but it was a place that was warm and moist. It arrived fine but the top cracked after 1 month in beautiful, dry air, cold, Chicago winter. Totally my fault, but I've never had any problems before. Now my best guitars are kept in 1 room with a humidifier.
Winter also does wonders for my hands. Like my Ovations, both of my thumbs have developed cracks. Very painful when playing. :eek:
Bradley |
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Posts: 1922
Location: Canton (Detroit), MI | Just opened the GC 12-string an hour ago....BEE-YOO-TI-FUL!!!!.....No problems at all. Other than the dust, you would not know that this is not a new guitar. I've seen new guitars at Guitar Center that looked far worse.
I nervously brought the strings back up to concert pitch(I asked the seller to loosen them)...hoping I wouldn't hear a POP from around the bridge!!!! I'm going to put new strings, D'Addario .010s, on it later this weekend. Nice light strings, no reason to put an old guitar under high tension. The strings that are on it look about 10 years old...the period that the seller said he had not played it for.
I just checked the serial number...it was made in 1981.
So far, so good!!!!
Roger
1976 Applause AA14-4 6-String
2001 Adamas 1598-MERB Melissa Etheridge 12-String
2003 Celebrity CC01 Spruce Top 6-String
NOW HERE - 1981 1118-1 Glen Campbell 12-string |
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Location: On the beach in Southwest Florida | Congratulations! Let us know how you like it. |
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Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | With all of this "packing/shipping" talk,
I just couldn't resist:
http://www.files4fun.de/funonline/bubblewrap.swf |
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Posts: 76
Location: LewistownPA | IMHO, USPS Priority Mail is the best way to go. I've had UPS damage a Custom Elite I once bought(ugly big finish cracks on the top and a broken "ear" on the headstock) but have never had a problem with Priority Mail.UPS did pay partial claim but I was never really happy with the guitar that way and ended up selling it.
I have a nephew that loads and unloads trucks for UPS. He tells me they are under such pressure to work very fast that packages are literally thrown about and they totaly ignore any warnings of "Fragile". Now I don't know if US Mail workers are any better but in my experience, both with guitars and other items, the packages coming through the mail do not look as beat up as UPS's often due. I think cost wise it depends on where it is going;sometimes UPS is cheaper and sometimes its not (especially their 2 day service). Any price difference to me is minor and well worth it. |
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Location: On the beach in Southwest Florida | This great. It has rained all day so far & this will allow me to get rid of the frustration.
http://www.files4fun.de/funonline/bubblewrap.swf
Thanks & I like manic mode the best. |
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Posts: 1380
Location: Central Oregon | Winter also does wonders for my hands. Like my Ovations, both of my thumbs have developed cracks. Very painful when playing.
Bradley
I know what you mean about painful cracked thumbs. I've had problems with my thumbs cracking in the winter too. It usually takes forever for them to heal once they pop open. I finally found a simple prevention last year - Chapstick! I rub a little on the tips of my thumbs every few days whenever I think of it & rub 'em back & forth together a little. No problems yet this winter. You might give it a try.
/\/\/ |
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Location: south east Michigan | About cracked thumbs & fingers. Me too....big time. On the good side I have never had a problem gumming up my guitars with sweaty or oily hands. But I do deal with skin cracks. I use a product called ZIMS CRACK CREAM with a band-aid. It's available at all the chain drug stores.
I do the Chap Stick thing also.
Brad |
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Location: Madison, Wisconsin | Bag Balm works pretty well too. I know a lot of trades people that swear by it. Another one is lanolin. |
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Posts: 1922
Location: Canton (Detroit), MI | (laughing).....YES, Bag Balm should work well....my other main hobby is cycling and Bag Balm is one of the hot tips for prevention of contact sores for your rear from cycling too long. Another thing that should work is Chamois Butt'r, sold at bike shops for the same thing....has lanolin in it.
Roger
1976 Applause AA14-4 6-String
1981 Ovation 1118-1 Glen Campbell 12-string
2001 Adamas 1598-MERB Melissa Etheridge 12-String
2003 Celebrity CC01 Spruce Top 6-String |
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Posts: 12
Location: Atlanta, GA | I just received a new Celebrity CC057 that was shipped UPS Ground from Buffalo, NY to Atlanta, GA without a problem. The vendor packed the guitar in the hardcase and then the Ovation Factory box stuffed with tons of paper. After reading this thread I guess I consider myself lucky based on some of the other stories I have read. |
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Posts: 4619
Location: SoCal | IMHO, with the OHSC, the way we typically ship guitars is adequate. Same day that I got the damaged 12-str from CT., the 30th Anniv arrived w/no problems. Both in OHSC, good boxes, shipped UPS.
Difference? 30th Anniv box arrived dirty but no damage. 12-str was better packed with foam formed cushions for top and bottom. However, both adequately packed for most problems...neither one packed for excessive weight placed on top or box thrown or dropped.
12-str box has pressure indentations and several cuts (or breaks) into (and through)the cardboard box but not into the OHSC. Area of damage is approximate area that wider portion of the case would be (top). Also directly over the top, versus the bowl. Result is what appears to be a stress related crack, not temperature. From mishandling!
UPS rep said Taylor Guitars here in El Cajon is working with UPS on a new way (packaging) to ship guitars. One thought is to use suspension to provide space between box and case to reduce shock. Wouldn't be hard...Toshiba and others have used suspension in shipping for their laptops - just a small plastic film suspending the computer from the outside of the box. Lots of other examples.
Problem is size, not weight... A standard guitar box (standard - size used for Ovation OHSC) goes Priority Mail whereas a slightly larger guitar box would have to go Parcel Post. Due to size, could cost more through UPS or FedEx.
So...luck, good or bad. As the damage can be repaired at Ovation...the real question is whether the insurance we are paying for is any good. Will know by end of next week the decision by UPS.
Then, insurance paid TO SELLER who already has full payment. Note that I then have to collect from the seller who isn't required to pay me as he bought the coverage (yes, with my money but he bought it.) Could there be a problem? In this case, I have a good seller. |
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Location: SoCal | UPS has not responded to the claim after 10 days but their decision is expected this week. This is what I wrote to the seller today:
Please understand that I do not expect to have a problem. However, if necessary, I will play "hardball" concerning this.
If UPS declines, I need contact individuals, claim number, any documentation (or the individual to contact at UPS) - those will be available to you but not to me - you are the purchaser of the insurance, thus the "customer."
Couple of options available if decline are appeal (sometimes it just requires an appeal to effect coverage,) homeowners insurance, complaint/arbitration through Better Business Bureau or Commissioner of Commerce/Corporations, or court action in small claims (in San Diego.) Parties to a small claims that do not show or lose - easy to place a judgement. Judgement not paid can be enforced by seizure through a bank or a piece of equipment (i.e., the UPS truck that services this area.)
UPS issues a unilateral contract (they print, buyer accepts-unilateral places greater responsibility on the issuer, to include disclosure - similar to an insurance policy for life, auto, etc.); I have never seen a disclosure sheet that I signed when I shipped UPS that specifically states non-coverage risks, etc.; UPS had custody of the box for inspection and, as an agent for the insurance company, accepted the fee for insurance; UPS had care, custody, and control; outer box showed damage. As the box was packed better than most shipments from the guitar companies, it would be bad precedence if they claimed insufficient packing/preparation. Maybe Ovation, Gibson, Martin, etc., should consider a different carrier for their products. The UPS rep stated that UPS is working with Taylor Guitars here in the San Diego area to develop better means of shipping guitars. A deposition of a Taylor employee or UPS employee working on a better means of shipping would prove embarassing to UPS. With the internet, all of this information could easily be disseminated.
UPS recognizes you as the claimant, as you purchased the insurance. As the UPS rep said when he was out there, they aren't up to speed with eBay purchases where you are buying the insurance, in effect, as my agent. However, as I paid for the insurance and the guitar - the courts would look at it differently. |
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Location: SoCal | Saga of the 1658 CL and UPS - told that they would have decision by UPS this week. After eleven days, the eBay seller said that the decision maker back east said that they haven't rec'd the pictures that their employee took last Tuesday (11 days ago on a digital camera.)
As the sale was 12/23, may not even be recourse through eBay and PayPal. This may be my last eBay guitar purchase. And, most likely last time I will ship or receive from UPS ground. |
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Location: Minden, Nebraska | Tony,
I suspect you will find no help from either eBay or PayPal. Crass as it may sound, their interest fades quite quickly once they have their money and nothing further of theirs is at risk.
UPS claims seem to be handled by representatives of their insurance company. I am going through the process of sorting one out which was recently denied. The issue is not whether the damage occured while UPS had the guitar; it has to do with 'improper packing'.
This company considers it irrelevant that I have shipped over 1000 guitars via UPS without incident. (Perhaps they consider that to be a tribute to the fine and gentle service UPS renders....) In this particular incident, the guitar was double boxed and packed to beat the dickens. However, I was so foolish as to use crumpled newspaper for packing material and that does not meet their published (online) packing guidelines.
The rep in question actually told me that the guitar should have been triple-wrapped in bubble wrap INSIDE the case. I informed him that such an idea is ludicrous and in many cases -- no pun intended -- impossible. He said I don't know what I am talking about, and that the online packing guidelines are clear.
Someone please tell me where on the UPS site it says that guitars must be triple wrapped inside the case, and I will drop my pursuit of justice....
In the meantime, I also plan to write the regional head of UPS and inform him that their insurance company has made me an enemy of UPS and driven me to the competition.
End of rant..... kinda like having a really good bowel movement. :D |
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Posts: 4619
Location: SoCal | Just an update as to claim on 1658...insurance company for UPS finally said Monday they had enough information to send shipper the claim forms [27 days after claim filed]. Today [30 days after claim made, 24 days after rep inspected] they ask for value of guitar and a written guitar repair estimate from Ovation. Thanks to Kim [he deserves a raise], within 15 minutes by fax [stated $350 plus $25 shipping, replacement value of $2,300 plus case].
As to value, they had the eBay information as to listing, and sales price. In addition, before and after pictures. They could have checked Orion Blue Book, claim is about 1/3 of purchased insurance. Insurance company told seller it would take another 7 days after they rec'd the information to make a decision.
Incompetence or planned delay? Wonder how long the appeal process takes after they decline? All this time, guitar, case, and shipping box sits. |
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Posts: 1196
Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | Tony, all this UPS guitar shipping talk is making me nervous!!! |
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Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | Tony another problem with UPS are these UPS store popping up all over the place. The last Ovation I got off of ebay was shipped from one of these places. I wrote to the seller and asked him to send the guitar in a box, but never got a responce. The guitar arrived in it's case, but with no box. The people at the UPS store had just wrapped the case in some sort of tape and shipped it. I remember when I saw the guy getting out of the UPS truck, I could see the outline of a case. Well needless to say, the feet at the bottom of the case were pushed in, and on of the clasps was broken. I was lucky that the guitar was fine. After this I emailed the seller again. He told me the guy at the UPS store said they ship guitars that way all the time. I told him to tell those people NO NO NO NO NO! You do not ship a guitar even if it has a case without a box. Clueless! |
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Posts: 648
Location: Florida | My UPS horror story - involved a cherry looking '65 Fender Deluxe Reverb.
Took it in for repair from a guy out in Arizona. I told to to ship the chassis only, but got the whole amp.
All it needed was a recap and to have the grounds reflowed on the front, no biggie. Did that and shipped it back, double boxed (which takes some doing).
He got splinters. UPS probably dropped it off the dock, or it fell from the top of a stack being moved by forklift. Not good. The Jensen speaker was bent, the baffle was in pieces and had gone thru the speaker, the cabinet had its sides pushed out, but the chassis was still perfect.
It was insured for $1500, and I put in a claim for $450 since I had an original Jensen (a recone, but must are), and Larry Rogers cut me a deal on a cabinet. UPS agreed to the claim and paid immediately.
So far so good right? WRONG!!!!
On the way back to me - under its original tracking number... they lost it. Poof, gone. So...after two weeks, I put in a claim for the $1050 additional (ie, $1500-$450=$1050). Heh... no way says UPS, the claim has been settled.
I ended up having to hire an attourney, and UPS finally paid up - TWO YEARS later, right before it went to court. The lawyer charged me only $250 since it hadn't actually gone to court - which I though was reasonable, but still, that was MY expense, not UPS's (they would have been responsible for court fees, not lawyers, and only if they lost).
So... if you're shipping an amp, ship chassis, tubes, cabinet and speakers seperately. Double box EVERYTHING. Its your only perfect alibi in a claim - the same reason there are "case covers" (legaleeze - the case is not covered since its the "protective covering", but if you cover the case, then it becomes "contents" not the covering).
AL!!! Take note !!! (maybe you're doing that already). |
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Posts: 1445
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada | When I bought my Glen Campbell Adamas from a guy in Oklahoma, he just wrapped the case in a piece of cardboard and threw it in the mail...I almost fainted when I first saw it!
The case had been around the world a few times and was in rough shape anyway but it was probably a little worse than it was.
However, that old case really did it's job because the guitar was/is still in great condition.
My recently purchased Custom Viper III is still not here after twenty-one days in the mail...I'm getting a little nervous. :(
Wayne |
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Posts: 7210
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | In the past 5 years I have shipped and/or received at least 200 guitars mostly via UPS. No issues. Pack well, in a box and insure and everything should be fine.
In reading this thread I did notice something that may have been overlooked. We know Ovation guitars are shipped year-round from CT and Korea. And I think they are not detuned, but not sure on that. They do sit in warehouses, and shipping locations. So far no surprises, this is the same for all of the guitar makers. But I wonder, is there a correlation (how could we ever find out) between guitars shipped from hot to cold (or vs versa) and finish cracking in later years. I had heard that a guitars finish is not totally cured for several weeks after it is finished. Is it possible, because of the bowl vs top material difference that exposing to extremes early in its life may be a key to the finish cracking that occasionally happens, and really have nothing to do with the life of the guitar after that point. |
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Seasonal shipping
