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Location: south east Michigan | I wonder.....Is it a good idea to ship something as temperature sensitive as guitar in the dead of winter? Metal parts come into our shop feeling like the were kept in the deep freeze all night. Obviously you would want to leave the guitar in it's case until it came up to room temperature. Something to think about?
Brad |
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Location: SoCal | One of the reasons that I use Priority Mail from post office is that it is 2-3 days, even from west to east coast. Expensive? USPS Priority to Nils was $29 for shipping and insurance - and not banged up. Previous to Paul Hebert in Lafayette was 2 days. Compare that with 5-6 days minimum in a UPS truck - always a concern. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | I don't think it's a problem. Just loosen the strings before shipping and when you get the guitar let it warm up slowly to room temp before tuning it. Dave |
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Location: On the beach in Southwest Florida | Or...ship it to me in Florida where it's warm...& I can send it back out next summer. |
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Location: Wooster, Ohio | I had a recent purchase shipped in UPS from a guitar store in Florida to Ohio. Because it was shipped the week of Christmas it took 12 days. Luckily most of that time was in Florida. It arrived on one of the coldest days of the year here +15 degrees. Let it warm up without opening and everything was fine.
Steve |
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Location: SoCal | From my post in the 30th Anniv CL...got a 1158 slothead CL 12-str in today. Damage of hairline cracks that were not disclosed. Small hairline crack had been well disclosed. Other than the hairlines cracks, everything about the guitar is near-new. Too bad, a wonderful guitar with a noticeable "scar" across the face.
He called me today after getting my email of the problems. He is emphatic that the damage occured during shipping. Either temperature or maybe they threw the box around. Don't know. Box is scuffed up as most boxes through UPS are but the box doesn't show impact damage. Shipped in OHSC.
San Diego weather is 68 degrees, still allowed the case to set before opening.
He will be putting a claim into UPS...we'll see how well their insurance works. They can inspect here and will keep the shipping box. |
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Location: Canton (Detroit), MI | I have a GREAT interest in this exact topic....I have my GC 12-string coming from New Jersey via UPS....it is supposed to arrive here in Detroit on Friday, the high temperature is supposed to be around 18. It was shipped Tuesday.
I asked the seller to loosen the strings and to have the UPS Store do the packing themselves, plus the guitar is in the OHSC. And it is insured for most of the value.
I intend to let the guitar warm completely to room temperature before opening it. Let's see what shape it is in when I open it.....there is not supposed to be any issues with the guitar other than light pick scratches.
Link to the eBay listing:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2369820999&ssPageName=ADME:B:EOAB:US:6
Roger
1976 Applause AA14-4 6-String
2001 Adamas 1598-MERB Melissa Etheridge 12-String
2003 Celebrity CC01 Spruce Top 6-String
COMING SOON - 19?? Glen Campbell 12-string |
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Posts: 1300
Location: Madison, Wisconsin | Tony,
I'm interested in how UPS responds. Whenever we have damage at work, UPS almost always claims "improper packaging" and refused to pay for the damage. I've always wondered wht they would do when there was insurance on the item. Please keep us informed. |
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Location: Canton (Detroit), MI | Bill, if you let UPS package it, I can't imagine how they could get out of paying the insurance!!!! My logic for letting The UPS Store do the packing on the GC 12-string.....
Roger
1976 Applause AA14-4 6-String
2001 Adamas 1598-MERB Melissa Etheridge 12-String
2003 Celebrity CC01 Spruce Top 6-String
COMING SOON - 19?? Glen Campbell 12-string |
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Posts: 420
Location: On the beach in Southwest Florida | Arte there before & after pictures to verify the damage. With today's digital cameras, it might be nice added "insurance". |
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Location: SoCal | Gee, and I paid $510 for my GC 12-str a couple of weeks ago (and $65 for s&h - ouch.) Hopefully yours arrives in as good as shape as mine - no problem in shipping.
For the CL 12-str, I have pictures, the box, and the guitar is available for evaluation...seller has the pictures that he took, only has 50 feedback but 100%, etc. Don't believe a UPS employee saw it prior to being packed as done by a company where his wife works. I have shipped UPS through Office Depot with insurance...no one checked out my merchandise before issuing the insurance.
However, whether UPS packed or not - probably UPS will probably turn down. A broken neck (with crushed box and OHSC) or lost box is probably a decent case. I can hear it now, "We can't be responsible for temperature changes and you don't know it was caused by temperature, maybe it just happend."
Hopefully for the seller, they will accept the claim.
Think about it - what is the answer why we have some O's with no checking and some with a bunch? What caused it? I have a CL #1619 yr 1982 with checking, a CL #1619 yr 1979 with none. |
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Location: Waurika OK | Just a thought. Guitars are shipped from the factory at all times of the year, and not packed as soundly as most of the ones that go from individual to individual. I would think they spend more time on someones freight dock or in the trailer in transit. This is in the dead of winter and the hottests parts of summer.
As some have said, probably the most important thing is loosen the strings and good packing.
Noel |
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Location: Minden, Nebraska | This thread interfaces with ones concerning finish cracks. Ovation finishes are prone to cracks in the finish, period. In my experience with shipping hundreds of Ovations, an impact is most likely to initiate the crack. Cold weather increases the risk.
I give simple packing instructions to everyone from whom I buy and Ovation, and I am happy to pass those on to the board:
Packing tips:
- make sure the guitar is detuned
- put a sheet of bubble wrap over the face of the guitar in the case
- use any extra front/back room in the carton for protecting the face side of the case. No use worrying about the bowl side......
- mark THIS END UP on carton with arrows pointing toward the head end in order to prevent cartons from being stacked on it.
UPS is notoriously difficult in acknowledging that they cause damage while shipping, and getting them to pay a claim takes a lot of determination.
BTW, Ovations shipped from the factory in factory cartons do not meet the requirements of 2" clearance in all directions. About the only factory cartons I have seen which are big enough to do so are those of T*ylor and M*rtin. |
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Location: SoCal | In the case of the 1658 CL 12-str (finish cracks), UPS called this morning concerning the insurance claim, will send someone to inspect w/in 24-48hrs. So, we will see.
Seller had loosened the strings, OHSC, even had formed foam around the case. Due to foam in the box for the 1658, more insulated that the 30th Anniv CL shipped at the same time. No damage to the 30th Anniv. |
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Location: Minden, Nebraska | All it takes is one good shot to the carton to drive the force through the case into the top and cause a crack OR to ship the carton flat with a lot of weight pressing on it. The case can only withstand so much pressure.
The carton does NOT have to show damage for the cracks to have been caused while in the care of UPS.
Good luck, Tony! |
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Location: SoCal | Thanks Paul...
Actually, that is what it looks like - no damage to bowl but...vertical crack from rosette to bridge, mid distance and from the vertical crack is a diagonal crack up to the inlaid/binding. Was inside the OHSC but saw this once when a OHSC case was dropped...no damage to the case but similar damage to the guitar.
Good luck on the charity auction. |
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Location: Minden, Nebraska | The fact that the cracks appear to radiate from the bridge and the fact that the bridge is the point that absorbs the pressure from weight or impact tend to reinforce my belief that this IS damage at the hands of UPS.
Interesting charity auction. I doubt I will win this one, but it would be a great way to get the 2004 Collectors'. I bid on a charity Strat, too.... ;) |
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Location: south east Michigan | Paul,
Great detective work!
Tom,
I hope UPS will see it the same way. They can be thick headed sometimes.
Brad |
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Location: Minden, Nebraska | Brad,
Probably not so much detective work as it is the cumulative experience of receiving and shipping literally hundreds of Ovations.
"Thick headed" is often right for some UPS loss control investigators (the agents who inspect for damage and make determinations on claims).
I recently bought a NOS Guild Paloma classical acoustic/electric, a rather rare model and perhaps best known as the one Sting uses in concert. Note: this guitar was NEW.
It arrived with extensive cracks radiating from bridge across the face and back of the guitar, as well as numerous cracks in the finish around the headstock. The carton for this baby had been body slammed.
I reported the damage to UPS, who picked it up and inspected it before returning it to the store who had sold and shipped to me. They denied the claim, saying they could find no damage to the guitar. We are still sorting this out.
That isn't just thick-headed; it is BLIND!
BTW, a word of advice to those who file damage claims with UPS that are denied. You can insist on a second opinion and that the examination be done in the presence of the sender (since they return the package to the sender in the case of damage claims). My local guy has been overruled on numerous occasions by having someone else check it out in an environment more conducive to a fair outcome.
Sorry to make this so long, but I feel this information can be of use to anyone who is buying or selling guitars over the Net and using UPS as the carrier. |
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Posts: 1380
Location: Central Oregon | I will use the USPS for guitar shipping from now on. The 2002 Tony sent me arrived in perfect shape, even the box was in fine shape. It was also very fast, two days & it was here (So.Cal. to Central Oregon). I was amazed. Big temp change & zero problems. I let it warm up for a while in the case. Cheaper than United Parcel Smashers. I've only tried one damage claim through UPS & ended up with nothing. UPS blamed the shipper (& so do I, at least mostly), the shipper blamed UPS (who really did tear the crap out of the box, lousy packing or no). UPS took the box of smashed crap & told me basically tough shit. They didn't even offer to return the package of smashed crap. I got zip. Well, I did get the song "Ode to Agent Gully", I've had a lot of fun with that.
/\/\/ |
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Location: south east Michigan | Just a suggestion.....If you do get a UPS shipment that looks banged up, take a picture BEFORE you open it.
Brad |
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Location: Minden, Nebraska | Nils,
I believe you can insist that UPS deliver the wreckage to you. If they didn't pay you for it, it is still yours.
FYI, Priority Mail is NOT cheaper than UPS. USPS insurance is much higher (maybe because they are more likely to actually pay it!!) and the base rate is higher than UPS ground. It isn't necessarily faster, either, unless you are shipping across the country.
But I sure do understand your feelings toward UPS! Maybe I have become an enabler in my continuing to use their services, lol. |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | I only use USPS when there is no real choice due to cost for overseas, but UPS has the best claims department of all of them. Granted you need to get 2nd opinions sometimes, but they deal with SO MUCH fraud, that I understand their stinginess. There is a whole buisness out there of sending broken guitars and electronic gear (most common scams) to collect the insurance. Lisa works at a fulfillment house and uses ALL of the majors and several independants. I won't use her language here, but basically in using all of them, NONE of them rise to the top of the service chart. On any given day they ALL lose, break and mis-ship. |
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Location: SoCal | Miles - you have given me some hope. Not a lot but a little. Seller has before pictures, I have after and the guitar; the new box at mailing has the typical UPS-looks like it was slid back and forth on a dirty truck floor on all sides (must have been a dirty conveyor belt-bull); box not crushed but small areas of cuts/compression breaks in the cardboard (probably would have been through the box if the formed foam cushion or case hadn't stopped whatever hit the box - typical of UPS handling. I have had boxes from UPS with breaks in the box that I could put my hand into.
Result is a beautiful top is damaged between shipper and buyer. Not a small hairline but a crack across the face. Per Kim at Ovation, pennies to fill and buff but about $350 to sand down top and refinish (plus as he described "the ride".)
I originally posted not to bash shippers - I am interested as to how the process goes for an insurance claim when it is a finish crack where adjuster can say "Gee, Ovations are prone to finish cracks, it is 23 yrs old - the finish must be brittle, why do you care - it didn't crack the wood, the case isn't damaged, it wasn't inspected and packed by a UPS shipper (yet, they issue insurance on the box brought in and they had the opportunity to open to inspect and it is a unilateral contract), etc.
However UPS handles it may be close to how any shipper would handle a finish crack. We buy insurance to safeguard our investment that we are sending...fine, if box lost or crushed under the wheels of a truck - we'll see about finish cracks. Too bad there isn't a plastic film (like we see attached to pickguards and pickups to protect) that could be applied to the top. Al said a couple of guitars he took to Ohio (Columbus) guitar show developed a couple of cracks. This seller used a new box, had formed foam cushions, a good OHSC case, loosened strings, etc., and still damage occured.
Got to be a better way to transport these guitars.
Rather than the UPS normal procedure of picking it up from me, evaluating the claim, and sending back to seller - they will come out and take pictures, leave the guitar here.
Their normal procedure of sending the guitar to the seller leaves the seller with full payment and he gets the guitar back - would leave me with a hole in my wallet, no guitar, and a potential conflict to get the guitar back - payment of the claim to me (payable to seller as seller bought the insurance) or a refund from the seller of part of the sales price.
Paul B's quote "Priority Mail is NOT cheaper than UPS." Worth checking as I have found it cheaper in a couple of cases (may be a temporary difference in rate structure.)
Cost $23.50 plus $6 insurance ($900) (19lbs) to send Priority Mail from San Diego to Central Oregon (to Nils) - less costly than UPS or FedEx. Shipped Friday, delivered Monday (about 1,400 miles.)
Cost about $35 (20lbs) to send Priority Mail from San Diego to Lafayette, LA (Paul H.)- took 2 or 3 days, don't remember.
I sent Priority for the above items to primarily to reduce time in transit (air, short trip by truck,) cost was secondary but it did cost less.
A regular guitar box will go Priority, much larger is parcel post for more than UPS and by similar transportation. |
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Location: Yucaipa, California | Got to be a better way to transport these guitars.
hmmm... with the political climate in the World today, why don't we gather ALL of the DEDICATED Ovation owners/users/addicts and create our own Ovationland around the Mother Ship Factory. We would then ALL move there and have full and complete unfettered access to any model and would give Mother the valuable protection she deserves....
just a thought.. President Al..... :confused:
tim |
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