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Joined:
April 2002
Posts: 202
Location: Orlando, Florida | Hey guys...
I have a 1997 Balladeer with a bolt-on neck. It looks as if the neck is held on with a 1/4 inch hex bolt. I had 2 US made Applauses (AA-14 & AE-24) that seemed to have the same configuration (except they had no truss rods and the necks were made of aluminum). The truss rod on the Balladeer is recessed about an inch and a quarter from the sound hole. I read in an ad a few weeks ago that the bolt holding the neck in place could be adjusted (possibly for neck angle?). Does anyone have any solid information or experience with this? The reason I'm asking is that I have a very slight wave in my fretboard at about the 14th & 15th fret, and because the truss rod seems to end at the end of the neck, a truss rod adjustment doesn't seem to fix it. I do my own neck adjustments, but I don't want to mess with this bolt unless it's going to help. Any ideas?
Thanks |
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Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 13983
Location: Upper Left USA | Put down the wrench and step away from the guitar! Depending on your level of experience - go slow or slower.
Now check out the "search" feature using words like adjust action, trussrod, fret height and such.
You can also check the Ovation site and load the User's Manual.
Before adjusting the truss I'd measure string height at the 12th fret for both the 1st and 6th strings. Sight down the fretboard and see if there are any hills or valleys. Most adjusting is usually done with the removal of shims under the bridge. And be careful of the bridge pickup wires if so equipped.
If I sound a little overcautious it's because I wasn't always in the past. |
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Joined:
April 2002
Posts: 202
Location: Orlando, Florida | Thanks MWoody for your reply, but the issue is not about adjusting the truss rod. I have done truss rod adjustments on many guitars, and currently do them on my Gibson acoustic, and on my three Ovations (a 1111, a 1517 and a CS-212). I needed to get an education on truss rod adjustment awhile back. You can't run to a tech every time the weather changes, or you want to change string gauge. It's too time consuming and very expensive also! The issue on this guitar seems to be that the truss rod is too short to address the wave in the fretboard that extends on to the top of the guitar. On my 1517, the truss rod extends all the way to the soundhole, so there's less of a chance of this problem happening.
Thanks again |
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Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | Regardless of where the rod access is, a neck-rod can only address neck-relief problems below the body-joint, anything above frets 12-14 is a different problem with different solutions. A fingerboard rise above the body joint is very common in production guitars of all makes & can not be corrected with a rod adjustment. In most cases it looks a lot worse than it actually is and only becomes an issue if you need a very low action in the higher positions. |
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Joined:
April 2002
Posts: 202
Location: Orlando, Florida | So far no one has answered my question! Is there any solution to this problem. Does the bolt on neck adjust? |
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Joined:
June 2002
Posts: 6192
Location: Phoenix AZ | If your balladeer is a '97, then it has a K-bar, not a truss rod. Anyway, this fact does not have any bearing on your problem. It sounds like you have the classical "12-14 Hump". This happens because the fretboard is supported by (glued to) the neck only up to tyhe body (14th fret on your guitar). Beyond that the fretboard is just secured loosely to the top. The solution to your problem would be either neck reset (unbolt neck and adjust the angle) or a fretboard leveling. Both of these are tricky jobs. I just had my mando levelled and it required the removal of 8 frets, leveling/sanding of the fretboard to remove the hump, reslotting and refretting. Cost me a fair sum but I would never even dream of trying this myself. Dave |
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Joined:
April 2002
Posts: 202
Location: Orlando, Florida | Thanks for the info. It sounds like a big job. The frets aren't too raised. Do you think a fret leveling might do it? Is this kind of thing covered by warranty? |
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Joined:
January 2004
Posts: 648
Location: Florida | If you really want to see what's involved check out "Fretwork" available on Stewart-MacDonald's website.
A lot of times, the upper frets tend to "rise". Think of that as a neck with proper relief (lets call it straight for argument sake) from the body joint out, but tilting away from the player to some degree only from the joint out. In other words - the upper fingerboard has remained stationary while the rest of the necks angle has changed. The way it appears though, is that the uppper frets have risen (whene really they stayed close to the same). It appears this way because the player will lower the action at the bridge to compensate for the angle change, and the strings will now run into the frets at the upper end of things. Some guitars are made with "falloff" at the upper end of the fingerboard when new, to compensate for inevitable movement in the wood.
I am not qualified to do the work, but the method I'd choose would be to keep the frets intact if at all possible. If the "rise" is bad, you wont have much meat on the frets (or any frets) to make it level. At that point - you REALLY need a top quality luthier. To get it right, you need to fix the body to the workbench, and tune to pitch.... then put cradles under the neck at certain spots. The cradles are locked down, the strings are removed, and the neck is weighted at the headstock to simulate string pull. So far so good. Then you pull the frets, pull the nut, plane the ENTIRE fingerboard, put some falloff on the fingerboard by hand - above the body joint, resurface it, reslot it and get ready to refret it. The problem is... frets add stiffness to the neck. So the experience of the luthier is needed to select the proper fret tang width to keep the neck stiff enough, but not overly so. After the new frets are glued/pressed in place, they're planed and made true with the neck still in its strung position (with the weight still there). Usually they're crowned like that too. If it all went right.... when you take off the weight, replace the nut and string it back up, it will be as you want it. |
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Joined:
April 2002
Posts: 202
Location: Orlando, Florida | Cha-ching!!!! Sounds like major bucks on this one. Do you know if this kind of job is covered by manufacturers' warranty?
Thanks |
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Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | Don't think so, but you might wanna check.
Are you the original owner?
Is this affecting playability at all??? |
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Joined:
January 2002
Posts: 14127
Location: 6 String Ranch | OK the answer to the question is NO, the attachment bolts are not meant for adjustment. The "hump" is an entirely different thing. If you think it's bad enough to warrent fixing call the service dept. |
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Joined:
April 2002
Posts: 202
Location: Orlando, Florida | The playability is being affected mostly on the 1st and 2nd strings from the fifth or sixth fret up. A weird little twang that's a little distracting. I added a shim to the bridge that helped a little, but it's still there. Second, I think this guitar was some kind of left over when I got it. I don't think I could get warranty service on it, but I'm inquiring for future reference. I'm thinking of getting an LX, or an Elite T maybe sometime this year, and if this would happen I would want it fixed. Also, would you think that this is less likely to happen to a bound fretboard? This one is unbound.
Thanks |
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Balladeer adjustments
