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September 2003
Posts: 11
Location: Baltimore, MD. | I only recently started using my Ovation with my band and haven't actually used it on a gig yet. But I really want to. I love my Ovation. I DI it thru the PA. We play hard rock at high volumes. I EQ'd it thru the board to get a good sound but I need some help. It wants to feed back, I guess from my monitor, which keeps me from bringing it up in the mix to the proper level. I downloaded the manual for the OP24+ and it helped - but not like advice from experienced players would. I'm sure that there is a way to use the EQ on the guitar or some tricks of the trade to get rid of the feedback. Do you use the pre-shape alone, or in combo with the EQ, or does the mid-shift feature come into play here? I guess that I'm asking how to get volume and a nice fat tone.
I realize that a lot of this will be trial and error but I'm trying to accelerate my learning curve a bit since we have a gig coming up. Any tips would be greatly appreciated. Sorry for the long post. |
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February 2002
Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | a feedback-free electro-acoustic at rock-band volumes is difficult to acheive, but there are a few things you can try. The pre-shape function has a bass-cut, but it won't really help if you are competeing with bass & drums. To start with get a feedback buster soundhole plug (or a set of Ovation Airlocks if you have a multi-hole guitar)Then get a good 3 or 4 band parametric EQ & learn how to use it. Or the cheapest & simplest option is get a Behringer Shark feedback destroyer. I've had one of these since they came out & they are perfect if you need to play an acoustic guitar really loud. They cost well under $100
http://www.behringer.com/02_products/prodindex.cfm?id=DSP110&lang=ENG&CFID=8 25615&CFTOKEN=32790554 |
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September 2003
Posts: 11
Location: Baltimore, MD. | Man! See that? I've already learned about 2 products that I've never heard of before. Airlocks, eh? I have to see what they consist of. And check out the feedback buster. (I already use a Behringer DI). Thanks very muchly.
This is all new to me. I am so used to playing my electric on the "edge of feedback" (sounds like R&R soap opera) which is a good thing. Now I want to go completely the other way and still be heard in the mix. And when I set it up, it sounded great. Then the bass and drums happened. It was like the guitar was being played by the rhythym section. My ES was literally vibrating in my hands, strings, top and all. Which, in hindsight, probably means that I'm dealing with low frequencies, huh?
I'm determined to use her live. I even have a Gracie stand so I can do intros and switch to electric. Thanks again. |
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March 2002
Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | Airlocks are a set of rubber plugs of varying sizes that fit into the multi sound holes of your Elite. The FeedbackBuster is one big rubber plug for center soundhole guitars (you see Dave Matthews and John Mayer - among others use these in live applications). I use one in similar situations and it works very well in quelling lo-end feedback. Look into the Behringer Shark as well. |
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September 2003
Posts: 11
Location: Baltimore, MD. | I checked out the fb buster and realized that I've actualy used these in installed house systems - mostly for voice - Sabine? Same principal though, huh? Not that I'm a purist by any stretch, but does the Shark overly process the sound or clip like a limiter?
Do the airlocks have as much effect as a large sound hole plug? I guess that physically speaking, 15 small holes are the same as 1 large one, huh?
I think that part of my problem is that our practice spot is small. At good volume it's kind of like playing inside a speaker. I don't think that it will be as much of a problem in a larger room. If I learn to control it in these conditions then it should be easier on stage. Or not. Guess I'll find out. |
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Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | Don't let the size of the room decieve you. I've had it happen in all sorts of spaces, large and small. It's all volume, frequency and proximity.
I've found that moving the bass player and his rig to the other side of the stage helped (a little). The soundhole plugs helped a lot. They drastically affect your unplugged sound, but in this application, you don't care. I personally think they're a MUST if you're gonna play an acoustic at high volume with a rock band. |
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February 2002
Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | Like everything Berhinger make the Shark is basically a copy. This time they've ripped-off a Sabine feedback destroyer, except the Shark is less than a 3rd of the cost and has a lot more facilities. The DAC's in the Shark are pretty good, though if you do not set it up exactly as shown in the manual it will clip. If you set it up properly it's pretty transparent and only starts to sound processed if there's a lot of feedback filters engaged. I've never had to have more than 3 or 4 on and that was down to crappy monitors & bad-sounding rooms. |
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September 2003
Posts: 11
Location: Baltimore, MD. | I'm going to try both the plugs ang the Shark. I appreciate the info. It's a tremendous help. My ES is such a beautiful sounding and looking stage guitar and it adds such nice texture to songs. Even with the volume issues last night I was able to control it enough to sound good. I just need to get better control of the situation. The bass taking over my guitar surprised the crap out of me. I was feeling that Genz Benz cab, that's for sure.
So much to learn.........
Ah, what else do I have to do? |
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September 2003
Posts: 11
Location: Baltimore, MD. | Does anybody know where I can pick up some of the airlock plugs for my ES? So far I've only found one co. in the UK. There has to be someone in the states. |
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Posts: 10582
Location: NJ | I can get them. |
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December 2003
Posts: 95
Location: Fort worth Texas | This is why I am soooo glad I got the OP40 preamp ,...man I cant say enough about that notch filter |
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September 2003
Posts: 11
Location: Baltimore, MD. | Do you play acoustic in a loud band? The OP40 is the electronics section of your (newer than mine) Ovation, right? And what you're saying is that the notch filter that's built into it allows you to eliminate feedback from your guitar instead of using a separate unit?
Sorry for all the questions but I am trying to learn an entirely different animal here. I've got the Shark which I will give a try tomorrow with the band. I have a feeling it will help. |
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February 2002
Posts: 1817
Location: Minden, Nebraska | One of my vocalists likes a hot mic. Every once in a while the monitor level induces feedback. I just go to the monitor EQ and find the offending frequency band and pull the fader down until the feedback quits. That is basically what the Shark and similar devices does, and what your onboard notch filter should do. |
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February 2002
Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | Not exactly, unless it's a true parametric with variable Q, the bandwidth on a sweep or graphic EQ is fixed pretty wide, so it affects the octaves either side of the centre frequency, and with the kind of cuts needed to zap feedback can screw up your tone. Feedback zappers such as the Shark or the Sabine, or a true Parametric EQ use very narrow bandwidths, so they become frequency-specific. The result is they can zap an exact feedback point without killing your sound. The notch filters on Ovation preamps is a good example of a narrow-band steep-cut EQ, but they're very different to the EQ you find on most live boards or graphic EQ's |
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December 2003
Posts: 420
Location: On the beach in Southwest Florida | I use the notch filter on my OP40 (retrofitted in a 1778T) and the notch filter on my Peavy Exoustic 112 to get rid of two feedback frequencies. The Shark's description sounds like an easier (as in automatic) way to accomplish the same thing & more. |
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February 2002
Posts: 1817
Location: Minden, Nebraska | Paul,
You are correct and your point is well taken. I would totally agree if it involved the FOH sound. However, as we have touched upon in another thread, this is a monitor issue and I consider the tone in the monitors to be less critical than the tone in the mains. Many monitor systems have much flatter settings than the FOH for that reason. This isn't to dispute your point; in an ideal world all monitor and FOH systems would have perfect sound. I am simply willing to live in a less perfect world than some, but it also doesn't matter as much in my venue. |
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December 2003
Posts: 95
Location: Fort worth Texas | Best advise I can give here is tell the band to keep the stage volume down and run the bulk of the volume through the mains, they are in front of you so you wont have a great big feedback problem, of coarse telling your mates to keep their stage volume down opens the door for a whole lot of other problems. Just depends on how much they want the band to sound good rather than just themselves. |
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September 2003
Posts: 11
Location: Baltimore, MD. | Yeah, you are right there. The stage volume thing is a big can of worms. "If I'm not loud enough I can't get any sustain....." Wah, wah, wah. Unless you are playing through 4 Marshall stacks in a huge venue, you should be able to get a fat sound at lower volumes from a smaller rig.
I believe in playing loud but it reaches a point where the volume interferes with mics, monitors, even the mains (not to mention acoustic guitars). And when the guys aren't used to an acoustic in the mix...... well they have to turn down a little. If I'm doing the harmonics to start "Blurry" as an example, the electric is supposed to back up the acoustic, not drown it out. Volume down man! It's called dynamics.
It's a learning process for everyone. Not just me. |
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Live Ovation acoustic tips
