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Joined:
May 2004
Posts: 2850
Location: Midland, MI | Hello-
I've decided after several years of noodling around on a beat up old Peavey (Predator) on my own to take actual, live lessons. What I'd like is to learn how to actually *play* the guitar, instead of just futzing around and making much noise (at least according to my wife) . To that end, I'm leaning heavily toward an acoustic, and an instructor who can school me in the ways of fingerpicking, etc. FWIW, I'm not musically illiterate (classically trained pianist, used to play in competitions, although it was always under duress, if you know what I mean).
To get to the crux of the matter, I've been to three of the music stores in the area, one Guitar Center (all very nice people, but man, the clientelle can be scary) and I find that I think I might want an Ovation. I looked at the new Celebrity's, Celebrity DeLuxes and Balladeers. I even played some of them, as well as various Martin's, Taylor's, Yamaha's, Takamine's and Tacoma's. I also played around on one store's 'house brand' 'Allen' guitars. Some weren't half bad, but who knows anything about those?
Anyway, man I digress a lot, eh?, in the course of my fingerboard meanderings, I came across a used, although in apparently excellent condition, 1989 Ovation Elite (1868) in natural. The back seems deeper than the new Celebrity's/Deluxes, and it has that awesome looking five-piece neck...very smooth, and incredible action, IMHO. I played it, some chords, some fingerpicking and I'll be danged if it wasn't the best sounding guitar I've heard yet...balanced bass and treble, consistent across all the strings. It sounded better to me than the $4000 Martin I had just hung back on the wall.
So, here's the question...is a used, 1989 Ovation Elite 1868 with gold hardware, OP-24 preamp, OHSC, in seemingly excellent condition (no cracks, no obvious bowing around the bridge, straight neck, only a slight buzz on the third fret/fourth string) really worth $750? I know I can get a new Balladeer with OHSC from musiciansfriend.com (hey, isn't that really Guitar Center?) for ~$700, but is it going to be the same quality as the older Elite? Ooh, and is the OP-24 upgradeable/replaceable with something that has a built-in tuner (I know, silly, but the idea appeals to me)?
Many thanks! |
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Joined:
April 2004
Posts: 71
Location: Charlotte NC | I'm far from an expert, but if you go to the main page on this site, then click on resources, then look at the price list, it appears that the 1989 1868 Elites sold for about 1249.00 |
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Joined:
April 2003
Posts: 2503
Location: Fayetteville, NC | Welcome Aboard!
I believe you can get a new Elite LX for around $999 shipped if all my price comparisons. The Standard Elite LX and Standard Balladeer LX are selling forless than that and all of them are great Instruments. The benifit of buying new as opposed to used is you get a warranty. That is worth it's weight in Gold IMOHO.
Check the internet.after you played some different models.. thaen see where the best price is and go with that.You may also want to Check with Al at Lost Art/Vintage his link is in the links section. Alot of the members are very pleased with his prices and service. |
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Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 13987
Location: Upper Left USA | Cruster, welcome!
You intuitively picked up on several of the key items that separate a USA made Ovation from the others and a "vintage" from the new models! five piece neck, deep bowl, solid top.
You are halfway there!
Eventually you need to decide which is right for you. The elite you saw is very nice. The new LX line gives some wonderful new characteristics and flavor as well. The updatable electronics are wonderful as well.
What city are you in? Maybe a Member has a lead or direction. I suggest you get your hands on as many as you can and see which one calls out to you!
Sometimes they all call out to you though! :eek: |
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Joined:
June 2002
Posts: 6197
Location: Phoenix AZ | The 1868 would be a super shallow bowl. |
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Joined:
May 2004
Posts: 2850
Location: Midland, MI | MWoody:
I'm in Midland, Michigan...a veritable hotbed of Ovation dealers. Well, ok, the nearest official O dealer is in Saginaw about 15 miles away and that's the Guitar Center. Beyond that, it's a couple hour drive to the next one.
I've played some of the 'new' Ovations at GC, but for some reason, they just didn't (ahem) resonate with me the way that used one did. I don't have a clue why that is...heck, even the pricey guitars with all the fancy abalone and flame tops just didn't 'feel' the same. Not that I'd turn down a high-end Taylor or Martin if someone wanted to donate one, but...
I'm not in a big hurry, though (read: I have to manipulate my wife's mood very carefully and that may take some time...too many hobbies she sez...pffft!), so I could still find something else. The guy I talked to about lessons is apparently an Ovation fan, and I mentioned to him the used one I posted about here...he was going to go check it out and let me know what he thought of it. We'll see what he has to say.
I guess I'm just wondering if the older models were built 'better' or have some intrinsic value that a new one doesn't, thereby justifying the price on that particular used model (compared to the cost new). I'm a big believer in the concept that value != price, so it is conceivable to me that a 'vintage' Elite might just be worth as much as a 'new' Balladeer LX (which seems to be the closest new model in price).
Thanks for the replies, everyone! |
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Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 13987
Location: Upper Left USA | Quote:
"I have to manipulate my wife's mood very carefully and that may take some time...too many hobbies she sez..."
You so belong here!
It never hurts to ask a lower price either.
There are a multitude of Michigonians on this board as well! Maybe some close.
Have you played an Adamas yet? |
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Joined:
May 2004
Posts: 2850
Location: Midland, MI | Originally posted by MWoody:
Quote:
"I have to manipulate my wife's mood very carefully and that may take some time...too many hobbies she sez..."
You so belong here!
It never hurts to ask a lower price either.
Well, she sees my Motif8/CS6R/TX802/Layla24/Sonar{2/3} setup, then looks at my collection of Sun systems (everything from old IPC/IPX lunchboxes up to an E3k), turns to my beatup Predator/Bandit112 (now with Transtube! hehe), points at the Cleveland VAS clubs I *had* to have, the leftover bits from the Wrangler that is no more (she actually instigated that...trading my beloved Jeep for a minivan!), more books and magazines than a human has a right to posess, a collection of ham gear that, if sold would satisfy the debt of several third-world countries...I can go on. :)
My latest tactic is to make noises about flying lessons and getting Nitrox certified, alternately. Of course, compared to the cost of a new guitar and lessons...not to mention the inherent danger in those other two activities (hey, wonder if that prompted the increased life insurance coverage...huh)...
Quote:
There are a multitude of Michigonians on this board as well! Maybe some close.
Have you played an Adamas yet?
[/QB]
ITYM, Michiganians...or maybe Michiganders. :) I'm a Minnesotan transplant, though, so I don't take offense.
Haven neither seen, nor played, an Adamas. Top of the line Ovation, isn't it? Graphite top? I did play an all-graphite a/e at one shop, but I can't remember the make...it was the typical acoustic shape, though. Didn't like the sound on that. Kind of thin. Although, not as nasty-thin/dead as that Telecoustic they had. Feh, I was shocked at that one, and it didn't even *feel* good in the hand! |
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Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 13987
Location: Upper Left USA | You most likely had a "Rainsong" carbon guitar. They can be fairly different. I second the disgust over the Tele-cute-stick.
If my my wife says I'm accumulating too much can I use you as an example! If you have ever found a guitar you forgot you had, underneath other stuff - that could be a problem! |
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Joined:
May 2004
Posts: 2850
Location: Midland, MI | Originally posted by MWoody:
You most likely had a "Rainsong" carbon guitar. They can be fairly different. I second the disgust over the Tele-cute-stick.
If my my wife says I'm accumulating too much can I use you as an example! If you have ever found a guitar you forgot you had, underneath other stuff - that could be a problem!
It might very well have been a Rainsong. Name sounds familiar. There was also a Fender Strat, although it wasn't the Stratacoustic...it said 'Stratocaster Acousta' and it didn't look like the Stratacoustics I've seen pictures of...that one sounded horrible, as well.
So, is the OP-24 a decent preamp? Is it replaceable with something newer? I don't really have to have a built-in tuner, as I have a tuner anyway which works quite nicely, but...
EDIT:
Oh, and no, I've never found a guitar I didn't know I had. But, the last time we de-crapped the garage, I came across a nitro-powered RC car that I had thought was lost in the last move two years ago. Does that count? :D |
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Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 1817
Location: Minden, Nebraska | $750 for an #1868 is very high. On eBay they sell in the $500 range, depending on age, features, and condition. |
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Joined:
September 2003
Posts: 9301
Location: south east Michigan | cruster,
I am in Algonac, just south of Port Huron. If you care to take a drive, try elderly in Lansing, or come down to my area to Huber-Breese or our Guitar Center. They are about a half mile from eachother. I know for sure that Huber has a good selection to try and I hear that Elderly does as well. Play as many as you can will get you to know what you want.
Heck, if possible I would meet you. I just spent all my money on a new Ovation. Now the only fun I can have is helping to spend someone elses money!
Brad
By the way...nice skatepark you got there. |
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Joined:
May 2004
Posts: 2850
Location: Midland, MI | Originally posted by Paul Blanchard:
$750 for an #1868 is very high. On eBay they sell in the $500 range, depending on age, features, and condition.
Paul-
Thank you for the reply. I agree, $750 is too high. I went and searched completed auctions on eBay and I came across a similar vintage 1868 (cream, though, not natural) that went for $650+shipping, some in the $350 to <$500 range that didn't meet reserve, and newer models in various price ranges. I also went and checked guitarlist.com (I think that's it) and saw a couple in quite a spread of prices.
My thought was I couldn't actually play the ones on eBay to decide if I liked the sound (I'm under the impression that even guitars built side-by-side will have different sound/action/etc), and the one locally is a known quantity. Albeit, an overpriced one. :)
Sooooo....I made them an offer, they countered, I counter-countered and now I have a mint condition (or danged close, except for the dust...not even pick marks or wear around/on the frets) 1989 Ovation Elite in natural with an OP-24 and original hardshell case (side note: what was Ovation thinking with that funky blue fur?), complete with a cord I don't need and a set of Elixirs that I may. :)
BTW, just for the record...
I have the best wife in the whole world!
(She insisted I go make an offer, told me how high I could go before she would pop a cork, and even acted excited when I got home)
Thanks to everyone for the input, encouragement and information. |
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Joined:
May 2004
Posts: 2850
Location: Midland, MI | Originally posted by Slipkid:
cruster,
I am in Algonac, just south of Port Huron. If you care to take a drive, try elderly in Lansing, or come down to my area to Huber-Breese or our Guitar Center. They are about a half mile from eachother. I know for sure that Huber has a good selection to try and I hear that Elderly does as well. Play as many as you can will get you to know what you want.
Heck, if possible I would meet you. I just spent all my money on a new Ovation. Now the only fun I can have is helping to spend someone elses money!
Brad
By the way...nice skatepark you got there.
Brad-
Thanks for the suggestions. Actually, my Motif8 came from Huber-Breese on Groesbeck. And yes, they have a ton of guitars. Their keyboard selection is so-so, but man, they have a ton of stringed instruments. And the friendliest music-store people I've ever dealt with (except for the late Charlie Brown of MIDI to Go I and II). The GC down there on 14 Mile is a pit, although I got my Layla24 from there...the punk on the phone said they would match internet prices, so I got a heckuva published price off the internet from an authorized dealer in Fla. Even with shipping it was significantly less than GC...of course, once I was in the store, the kid disavowed any knowledge of a price match guarantee. After several tense moments of discussing the matter with the asst. mgr., they matched the price. I haven't been to Elderly in Lansing in about eight years.
Thanks again for the offer of helping me spend my money...already a done deal (see my earlier post to Paul). :D |
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Joined:
July 2003
Posts: 1922
Location: Canton (Detroit), MI | cruster, I think you done good. I'm in Canton Township, just east of Ann Arbor. I'd have steered you to Elderly Instruments and Huber and Breese like Brad did. I was at Elderly Friday and they have a fair assortment of used and new Ovation products right now. But nothing that sounds any better than your Elite, though.
Roger |
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Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 1817
Location: Minden, Nebraska | Congratulations on getting the guitar you want. Now, if Michigan could just decide on which university is THE sports school..... ;) |
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Joined:
May 2002
Posts: 3005
Location: Las Cruces, NM | cruster
I think you did the right thing, and welcome to the board. This whole thread, to me, says why this board exists. My only comment is, if you like the sound of a guitar and can make a deal, that is the best deal for you.
Bailey |
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Joined:
May 2004
Posts: 2850
Location: Midland, MI | Originally posted by Paul Blanchard:
Congratulations on getting the guitar you want. Now, if Michigan could just decide on which university is THE sports school..... ;)
Paul-
Everyone knows that the *real* U of M is in the Twin Cities. :) (I did mention I was born in Mn, right?)
Why these people in Michigan are all so gung-ho about the Golden Gophers is beyond me...UoM this and UoM that...except they have the colors wrong. |
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Joined:
May 2004
Posts: 2850
Location: Midland, MI | Originally posted by Old Applause Owner:
cruster, I think you done good. I'm in Canton Township, just east of Ann Arbor. I'd have steered you to Elderly Instruments and Huber and Breese like Brad did. I was at Elderly Friday and they have a fair assortment of used and new Ovation products right now. But nothing that sounds any better than your Elite, though.
Roger
Roger-
Thanks! Are there ever any OFC gatherings for Michigan members? Not that I can play worth a darn, but...
:) |
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Joined:
May 2004
Posts: 2850
Location: Midland, MI | Originally posted by Bailey:
cruster
I think you did the right thing, and welcome to the board. This whole thread, to me, says why this board exists. My only comment is, if you like the sound of a guitar and can make a deal, that is the best deal for you.
Bailey
Bailey-
Yeah, I like the sound of it. My wife thinks that it's not really my *look*, what with the woodsy, leafy epaulets, but even she thinks it sounds good.
Here's a funny newbie-Ovation owner story:
Last night, my wife was on the couch watching some insipid, mind-numbing, intelligence draining TV show (I don't watch much TV, can you tell?). I was quietly strumming the new guitar when a commercial came on, so I got a little more aggressive. She looked at me and said, 'You better turn the volume down on that before you wake up Mitchell.' I laughed and pointed out, once again, that it's an acoustic. She said, 'Oh yeah, then why did you tell me that knob on the top was a volume control?'
Now, my wife surely ain't stupid (and her name isn't Shirley), but man, that was funny. She was a bit cheesed when I couldn't stop laughing, but...she's still the best wife in the whole world. :)
;) |
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Joined:
September 2003
Posts: 9301
Location: south east Michigan | cruster,
A couple of us do meet once a month at a local cafe.
Brad |
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Joined:
May 2004
Posts: 2850
Location: Midland, MI | Originally posted by Slipkid:
cruster,
A couple of us do meet once a month at a local cafe.
Brad
Well, that'd be a hike for me. Although, I spent 2.5 years commuting 2.5 miles (one way) to Detroit for a client/project. Glad to be done with that one.
It would seem my new(used) Elite doesn't have the truss rod adjustment tool with it. Is there someplace to pick one of those up? Anyone? Anyone? =) |
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Joined:
May 2002
Posts: 3005
Location: Las Cruces, NM | cruster
Great story about your wife, and it raises the obvious question:
Why can't Ovation have a knob that adjusts the acoustic volume, aren't they technically advanced enough? Factory, please answer.
Bailey |
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Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 13987
Location: Upper Left USA | Bailey,
Too many variables, like the loose nut behind the pick! I have found it's not always the guitar.
Question: Have any of you been guilty of aiming the remote at someone hoping at least one of the buttons will work? Ever had it pointed at you?
It's Friday! Yeah! |
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Joined:
May 2004
Posts: 2850
Location: Midland, MI | Originally posted by MWoody:
Bailey,
Too many variables, like the loose nut behind the pick! I have found it's not always the guitar.
Question: Have any of you been guilty of aiming the remote at someone hoping at least one of the buttons will work? Ever had it pointed at you?
It's Friday! Yeah!
Loose nut behind the pick! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAH! As a computer professional, I've had the opportunity to use/hear many 'fun' problem descriptions (BCK errors, ID-10-T codes, etc.), but 'loose nut behind the pick' is too danged funny. I can imagine guitar techs telling customers that.
On the remote issue...our cable box has it's own remote, although it also controls our TV and DVD player. I can't tell you how many times I've mashed the buttons trying to change channels (on the cable box, the TV stays on Ch.3) and not have it work...and yet I keep pushing the buttons harder. Eventually, it occurs to me that it may be set for one of the other devices...feh. I blame it on GeniusBeer(tm) (OK, Guinness Extra Stout...drink three or six and you're instantly transformed into a genius with the ability to expound on any topic that comes to mind...just ask me) . |
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Ovation virgin needs help
