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Location: Tampa Bay area, FL | Has anyone ever compared an older Optima preamp with a newer VIP? Recorded or live? Give me some insight on the sonic differences, and which one wins in a bloody fight... |
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Location: Scotland | Yes I have, and I really don't care. Which one wins? Are we talking about an Optima plugged into my state-of-the-art live system, or the VIP plugged into some shitty 30watt acoustic amp? Are we talking about the owner of the preamp having any real concept of sound engineering or just plugging in stuff and fooling around
It's as simple as this: Every Ovation preamp, from the original FET3 to the the VIP works perfectly and does exactly what it's intended to do. They all sound good, and if they don't it's down to user error. |
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| All guitars do what they're supposed to do, but people do have preferences. In pre-amps, my preference is for the Optima. I like the linear tuner, I like the layout of the controls and I particularly like the elegantly simple battery change door. |
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Location: Utah | Have you played an OpPro series before? The VIP is just an OpPro with some added features. The VIP does offer an XLR output, which is handy for live performances, especially when the cord is long. The VIP has the down side of requiring a cord to be plugged in (or a dummy plug plugged in) before the tuner will power up.
Given my recent comparisons of the VIP, the OpPro, and the OpPro Studio, I would say that the Studio is more practical due to the built in compressor and exciter. The VIP sounds great in the Elite LX, and the OpPro has always sounded fine recorded or live. All are great preamps and do what they say they do. The VIP is the only one of these that requires the dummy plug to power up the tuner. The VIP and Studio both have the added XLR output standard, but you can install the XLR for the plain OpPro.
It might help if you explained the scenario. Are you looking at two different guitars, one with the Optima and one with the VIP? Or are you looking to install a preamp in an acoustic-only guitar? |
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Location: closely held secret | Originally posted by Paul Templeman:
Yes I have, and I really don't care. Which one wins? Are we talking about an Optima plugged into my state-of-the-art live system, or the VIP plugged into some shitty 30watt acoustic amp? Are we talking about the owner of the preamp having any real concept of sound engineering or just plugging in stuff and fooling around
It's as simple as this: Every Ovation preamp, from the original FET3 to the the VIP works perfectly and does exactly what it's intended to do. They all sound good, and if they don't it's down to user error. Paul, you've got to stop sugar-coating your opinions and tell us like it is. |
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Location: Tampa Bay area, FL | OK, a little clarity. Since I have an Optima, and was considering bowl surgery after reading raves about the VIP and now the OpPro, I want to know if 'more recent/advanced' technology improves the sound of an mid-depth Adamas (the guitar in question), or if it is just more of a sideways step. Yes, we are talking about having an owner with a real concept of sound engineering. Yes, I was talking about a great sound system or through a good board direct to disk. I just haven't tried the VIP, so I was asking for some opinions, jeez... |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Maybe Paul just had some bad haggis. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | I think Paul's point was that any tool can do the job, but writing about hammers and saws in any level of detail you want to isn't going to build a house. |
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Location: south east Michigan | Well said Dave.
And so early in the morning!
You must have had a heaping bowl of clarity along with a glass of brevity for breakfast.
I used to think I had a idea of what sounded right. After hanging around Paul a while I realized I don't really know what I'm talking about. Or better, how little I really know about the subject. I could probably say that the same thing after talking to you, Prestocat. |
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Location: Scotland | OK, let me give you a different take on my initial response. I think there is far too much empahasis on pre-amp features and functions. While they are nice to have there are far from essential and mostly there so there's something for marketing to talk about at the NAMM show. Ovation created the whole electric-acoustic thing with their first preamp which had a volume control and nothing else. And if you compare any current Ovation preamp (with the contols set flat) to the original FET3, there's not a whole lot of difference. Because essentialy the preamp is just there as an impedence matching device. Everything else, such as the EQ, feedback notch and tuner can be acheived with outboad equipment, usually with better results. Fishman do the Aura as a standalone unit and as a stompbox, so you could even have something similar to the VIP thing as an outboard for any guitar if you wanted.
So, in essence it doesn't matter which preamp you have. They all work well, but some may need a little extra help depending on your situation.
As far a comparing the Optima to the Vip. With everything set flat and the imaging off, I don't hear a whole lot of difference. I find I can get a sound I prefer from the Optima. But then I'm not a fan of the Fishman Aura technology, though that may change as they develop and improve it. Though I seem to be in the minority here as most people with VIPs rave about them. |
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Location: closely held secret | I must be in the minority with you, Paul. While there's nothing I dislike about the VIP, it doesn't do anything special for me. I would probably get more use out of a Studio, but I think you're absolutely right about outboards. If I was one of those who actually played out on a regular basis I would go that route.
As it is, for the short amount of time I spend playing in front of people I'm just too lazy to set it all up. |
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| The heart of the matter is that no company can say "we got it right, this is all you'll ever need and we won't be updating this model".
They have to keep bringing out new variations - and a lot of it is just going to be cosmetic - and because by the time of the Optima they pretty much had it perfect they are now adding extras rather than improving the basic preamp. |
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Location: Utah | Prestocat, ok. Surgery to your Adamas is serious.
My opinion is that you should go for one of the OpPro series. The reason is that they are interchangeable. Pop out the VIP and drop in an iDEA or Studio.
But my 100% honest advice is to skip the VIP and go for the Studio. The images didn't really float my boat in the '07C. The compressor and exciter in the Studio are far more useful and sound really very good. You might get a better exciter in an after market pedal, but it does add some nice flavor. The compressor is quite good. Tto my ears it is fine for live performance and home recording.
The VIP in my Elite LX adds some nice sounds, but only when the images are kept to a low level. In my opinion, the VIP doesn't give you several different guitars worth of sounds, or an excellent miked sound when plugged in. Ovation's ads make it out that their goal is to make your guitar sound like it has been miked with expensive mics, but to my ears it doesn't achieve that.
The Studio or the new iDEA would likely give you more useful features than the VIP. The plain OpPro is also a good preamp. You could start with that and then use pedals for effects. I noticed that Kaki King has a plain OpPro preamp in her custom Adamas, and damn does that guitar sound amazing live!
Out of curiosity, have you looked into under saddle pickups yet? I'm considering the same thing as you. Both my girls have GAS worse than I do for one of Al's acoustic only Adamas. It looks like the saddles are thin. I'm not sure if Fishman pickups are compatible with the Ovation saddles or preamps, or if the Ovation thin pickups mate easily with the OpPro preamps. |
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Location: closely held secret | Originally posted by FlySig:
Prestocat, ok. Surgery to your Adamas is serious. Particularly since the OP series and the Optima occupy different places on the waist of the guitar. The Optima, OP-x and OP-24 sit on the flatter side of the lower bout, while the OP series nestle into the contour of the waist. If you currently have an Optima or OP-24, you'll have a hole to fill if you install a newer preamp. If you really want to do it, I'd send it to the MS and let the boys of CT handle it. |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | I switched out my both VIPs.... 1 to a Studio and 1 to an iDea.
At worst case, I now have backup preamps. |
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Location: Tampa Bay area, FL | Yeah, in a sense, I wish the Optima was available in the new format preamps. It seems to me the Studio might be the only choice here, as I am reading many people still really like the Optima.
See, my Adamas is developing a small hairline crack in the bowl, and I have already contacted John in CT about a 'rebowling', which is apparently possible.
If I decide to go ahead and do it, I will have to choose a new preamp. Currently I run my guitar through a compressor (a BYOC 5-knob, or my Line6 M13) and through an Aphex acoustic xciter, which I use for the lower harmonics. So, if this does happen, I'd most likely go for the Studio. It seems the VIP technology/preamp gets very mixed reviews and the Optima is still regarded as king. |
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| Originally posted by Prestocat:
and through an Aphex acoustic xciter, which I use for the lower harmonics. Whoa! Back up. I have been deliberating ordering one of these things for that exact application. The reviews seem to be glowing, but I have been staying on the fence. This really gets it done for you? |
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Location: Tampa Bay area, FL | Actually I found out about this device from guitarist Vickie Genfan, who is kinda along the Kaki King road (although Vickie actually smiles..hahaha), who used one. While Vickie and some of my other favorite guitarists (California Guitar Trio, Adrian Legg) use lower tunings, I tend to play in either standard or drop D, and really love the low notes those other guitarists were getting. This box is the key. I also have a Viper- T ( see separate thread), and it makes the thinnish sound of the Viper come alive too. They are pretty cheap, but they work well. I wish it were built into the guitar itself. |
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Location: Utah | From the demo on the Aphex website, the Studio preamp may not fully replace the Aphex. It does the same sort of thing, but there is no control for bass vs treble, just more or less of all the harmonics. |
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Location: Tampa Bay area, FL | Right, I am guessing that it is just the higher harmonics. However, the lower ones are the ones that open up the guitar. |
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Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | I'm probably in a minority here as well. I think I have at least one example of about every preamp made by Ovation except the Op30 and Op50. I prefer simplicity. I spend maybe 5 seconds setting the guitar controls (they're all basically set the same), then never touch them again. Tone, effects, tuning and volume are all controlled via the pedal board. The original and reissue FET systems are probably my favorite because they're so simple. Even more simple is Tak's line driver installed in the EF75. I'm not a gadget guy so simple is better for me. |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Originally posted by ProfessorBB:
I'm not a gadget guy so simple is better for me. So says the Professor who had to have a PhD in electrical engineering just to rig up his band room! |
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Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | Originally posted by stephent28:
Originally posted by ProfessorBB:
I'm not a gadget guy so simple is better for me. So says the Professor who had to have a PhD in electrical engineering just to rig up his band room! |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Yeah, I heard that the Mayor of Denver had to politely ask you to turn all the neon off when they did the lighting of the trees downtown so they wouldn't have to compete :D |
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Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | Funny, Stephen. True story. Some years back, the symphony chorus was singing Handel's Halleluja chorus during the lighting of the City and County Building and just as the switch was thrown before the very first note, the fuse to the electric piano blew, so we never heard any note for our pitch. We sang out as loudly as possible, each section convinced they were on pitch while trying to provide guidance to the other sections who we equally were convinced were on the wrong pitch. Of course, nobody had a clue where the correct pitch was and so we made a horrible mess of the entire piece until we went into parts and could hear the other sections. Chevy Chase's Christmas Vacation certainly comes to mind. |
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Optima vs VIP
