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Random quote: "One good thing about music, when it hits you, you feel no pain." - Bob Marley |
1978 1617 Legend Rebuild...
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Member Communities -> Bottom Feeding Luthiery Guild | Message format |
DanSavage |
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Joined: June 2012 Posts: 2316 Location: Pueblo West, CO | So, back to the build.
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DanSavage |
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Joined: June 2012 Posts: 2316 Location: Pueblo West, CO | Well, I couldn't help myself. Here's what it looks like.
Edited by DanSavage 2016-03-14 9:42 PM | ||
Cavalier |
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Joined: March 2013 Posts: 359 Location: undisclosed | A marvel of unsurpassed splendor.. Good show !! | ||
Old Man Arthur |
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Joined: September 2006 Posts: 10777 Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Oooo! Nice! | ||
BanjoJ |
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Joined: September 2012 Posts: 811 Location: Thredbo, NSW, Australia | Very impressive Dan. Thank you very much for sharing this storey with us. Well done! | ||
leonardmccoy |
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Joined: December 2015 Posts: 287 Location: Katmandu | What a marvelous piece of passion and handcraftsmanship! Waiting for those beauty shots... | ||
Damon67 |
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Joined: December 2006 Posts: 6994 Location: Jet City | well done! | ||
marenostrum |
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Joined: August 2007 Posts: 1008 Location: Tuscany, Italy | Gorgeous guitar Dan. Congratulation for your skill & your new guitar | ||
DanSavage |
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Joined: June 2012 Posts: 2316 Location: Pueblo West, CO | Thanks everyone for you kind words. It's been a real pleasure sharing this project with you. Not as pleasurable as playing this guitar now that it's done, but close. And, the project has not been without its flaws, such as the binding separation at the waist on the bass bout side. But, all in all, I'm very happy with it. I did have a chance to play its cousin, the 1619 to compare the sound of the two. They both are of the same generation bowls, necks, etc., and have the same brace pattern on the top. In short, there's no comparison. This guitar sounds better, hands-down. With no further a-do. Edited by DanSavage 2016-03-15 8:17 PM | ||
arumako |
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Joined: October 2012 Posts: 1034 Location: Yokohama, Japan | My goodness, things have progressed rapidly! Thanks for always responding so graciously and thoroughly to my inquiries, Dan. I really appreciate it. What a great comparison/experiment! DanSavage - 2016-03-13 11:48 AM Thanks, Ken. I've been coloring epoxy for years. Pigment is sold in gel form, but there's no guarantee that the gel will be compatible with epoxy. So, I started using dry pigment so I didn't have to worry. Plus, dry artist pigment can be mixed to get whatever color you need. I did consider using HHG for this bridge, but the point of this guitar was to build it as closely to my 1619 as possible to limit the variables so I could more directly compare the differences between a torrefied top and a non-torrefied top. Both guitars are about the same vintage, with the same method of bowl construction. I built both tops using the same brace pattern and the same types of glue for gluing down the braces. The bridge on my 1619 was originally glued down with HHG, but I did a poor job of prepping the top and it popped off after about a month. So, I reglued it with Hysol as I knew that wouldn't result in a failed glue joint. (it hasn't) So, to eliminate the bridge glue as a variable, I used the same glue on this 1617 as the 1619. Even so, the bridge on the 1619 was walnut and this one is ebony, but I figured the differences between the two would be minimal. That's also why I decided to pop for the cost of electronics, including the piezo bridge saddle. If I had gone with my original plan of using a bone saddle, I would not be able to be sure that the difference in sound was due to the torrefied top or the bone saddle. I'm really glad I spent the dough to buy my Alps printer. It's one of the few ever produced that's able to print opaque colors, like gold foil. Although I used a different method to print the decals on Jay's guitar, the Ovation logo on the later guitars used gold foil outlined in black, and it would have been impossible to print that later logo using the method I used on Jay's O. So now with all this attention to detail you've got the perfect comparison! That means you have two vintage 70's Os with modern OP Pro pre-amps! Your work never ceases to amaze me! Any plans for a video shoot-out between the two? | ||
jay |
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Joined: January 2009 Posts: 1249 Location: Texas |
Dan...another sweet looking O. Congrats. Soooo...are you deducting bracing and top or just the torrified top as being the main culprit in the improvement of acoustic response? Additionally, I would be interested, since there is acoustical separation...if there is any noticeable difference between the two, plugged in, with the same settings.
Edited by jay 2016-03-16 9:06 AM | ||
Mark in Boise |
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Joined: March 2005 Posts: 12755 Location: Boise, Idaho | Now that is a restoration or maybe even a resurrection! You made an old guitar come to life just in time for Easter. | ||
DanSavage |
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Joined: June 2012 Posts: 2316 Location: Pueblo West, CO | arumako - 2016-03-15 8:53 PM My goodness, things have progressed rapidly! Thanks for always responding so graciously and thoroughly to my inquiries, Dan. I really appreciate it. What a great comparison/experiment! So now with all this attention to detail you've got the perfect comparison! That means you have two vintage 70's Os with modern OP Pro pre-amps! Your work never ceases to amaze me! Any plans for a video shoot-out between the two? Thanks, Ken. Not immediately. Right now the 1619 has 80/20s and the 1617 has PBs. Once I change the strings I may do a side-by-side comparison video. | ||
DanSavage |
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Joined: June 2012 Posts: 2316 Location: Pueblo West, CO | jay - 2016-03-16 7:03 AM
Dan...another sweet looking O. Congrats. Soooo...are you deducting bracing and top or just the torrified top as being the main culprit in the improvement of acoustic response? Additionally, I would be interested, since there is acoustical separation...if there is any noticeable difference between the two, plugged in, with the same settings.
Thanks, Jay. I built this guitar as identically as possible to the 1619 so that I could reduce the number of variables down to just the difference between normal wood and torrefied wood. This means that the improvement in the sound can be isolated to the torrefied wood. It would be interesting to see if they sound different when plugged in. I'll try that tonight and let you know. | ||
DanSavage |
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Joined: June 2012 Posts: 2316 Location: Pueblo West, CO | Mark in Boise - 2016-03-16 9:30 AM Now that is a restoration or maybe even a resurrection! You made an old guitar come to life just in time for Easter. And not a moment too soon, either. Now that this one is done and I've got my own torrefied Ovation I'm taking a break from working on guitars and I'm going to spend time playing them. | ||
leonardmccoy |
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Joined: December 2015 Posts: 287 Location: Katmandu | It's outright uncanncy to see a 1617 in a state as if she had just left the factory in New Hampshire -- or even better than that. What a marvelous piece of restoration work which I never thought possible as home-made! Merely the nut could use a rounding off and eventually polishing towards the peghead as it seems a little square-shaped still, but that may just be the photos. Edited by leonardmccoy 2016-03-16 3:23 PM | ||
DanSavage |
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Joined: June 2012 Posts: 2316 Location: Pueblo West, CO | leonardmccoy - 2016-03-16 1:22 PM It's outright uncanncy to see a 1617 in a state as if she had just left the factory in New Hampshire -- or even better than that. What a marvelous piece of restoration work which I never thought possible as home-made! Merely the nut could use a rounding off and eventually polishing towards the peghead as it seems a little square-shaped still, but that may just be the photos. Thanks! It's a brand-new 40-year-old guitar. :D Yep. You've got a good eye. I still need to round and polish the nut, but I'm going to wait to do that until I change the strings. It's perfectly playable in the mean time, so I'm in no big hurry. Edited by DanSavage 2016-03-16 5:21 PM | ||
BanjoJ |
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Joined: September 2012 Posts: 811 Location: Thredbo, NSW, Australia | I have a question for you Dan. I recently scored an Op-Pro preamp, can, pickup and cables off Aussie eBay, and I'm planning to install it in my 1982 Folklore 1614. I was planning to make a template for the cut-out from one of my other O's. Is that what you did for your 1617? | ||
DanSavage |
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Joined: June 2012 Posts: 2316 Location: Pueblo West, CO | BanjoJ - 2016-03-16 5:44 PM I have a question for you Dan. I recently scored an Op-Pro preamp, can, pickup and cables off Aussie eBay, and I'm planning to install it in my 1982 Folklore 1614. I was planning to make a template for the cut-out from one of my other O's. Is that what you did for your 1617? Hi Paul, Yep. I took the OP-Pro can out of my 2078, then traced the opening onto Bristol paper. The trickiest part is knowing where to put the hole on the new guitar. What I did was to hold the can up to the front of the guitar, then looking front to back, move it back and forth until the curve of the can matched the curve of the waist. Upon further reflection, it would be easy enough to put some masking tape on the side parallel to the top starting at the joint where the neck joins the body and mark the start of the hole, then transfer the tape to the guitar where you want the hole to go. I just eye-balled it, but using the tape would be more precise. I put some masking tape on the waist, then traced the template onto the tape. I used my Dremel cut-off wheel to rough cut the opening, then used a sanding drum to grind the opening back to it's final shape. Remember, you can always sand off more material to enlarge the hole, but it's more difficult to shrink the hole if you get it too large. Dan | ||
BanjoJ |
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Joined: September 2012 Posts: 811 Location: Thredbo, NSW, Australia | Thanks Dan. I'll create another thread so I don't hijack this one. Edited by BanjoJ 2016-03-17 12:29 AM | ||
DanSavage |
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Joined: June 2012 Posts: 2316 Location: Pueblo West, CO | jay - 2016-03-16 7:03 AM Additionally, I would be interested, since there is acoustical separation...if there is any noticeable difference between the two, plugged in, with the same settings.
I had a chance to compare the 1619 to the 1617 when plugged in. Before I did the comparison I strung the 1619 with the same strings as the 1617 and to be honest, I can't tell any difference between the two. This isn't surprising because the pickups only read the vibration of the strings, not the tops. I did an acoustic-only blind-sound test between the two with my wife and she picked the 1617. Edited by DanSavage 2016-03-22 8:48 PM | ||
jay |
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Joined: January 2009 Posts: 1249 Location: Texas | "This isn't surprising because the pickups only read the vibration of the strings, not the tops." Thanks for doing that. I didnt expect any difference, so thanks for confirming that. Well...when does the wood bowl project begin? | ||
DanSavage |
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Joined: June 2012 Posts: 2316 Location: Pueblo West, CO | WRT the wood bowl project, I'm taking a break for a while. I've got a web app I'm building for the prison ministry at our church for those reentering society. After that, we'll see. Edited by DanSavage 2016-03-23 9:00 AM | ||
arumako |
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Joined: October 2012 Posts: 1034 Location: Yokohama, Japan | DanSavage - 2016-03-22 10:47 AM I had a chance to compare the 1619 to the 1617 when plugged in. Before I did the comparison I strung the 1619 with the same strings as the 1617 and to be honest, I can't tell any difference between the two. This isn't surprising because the pickups only read the vibration of the strings, not the tops. I did an acoustic-only blind-sound test between the two with my wife and she picked the 1617. Despite knowing better, I always find myself wanting to believe that the pre-amps make a huge difference in capturing the unique sound of each acoustic guitar. I guess that's why the Cool Tube type pre-amp with piezos and mics are gaining in popularity. I guess mics are still the most accurate method to reproduce acoustic guitar voicing. ...redeeming model airplanes, guitars, and people...sounds like a busy time for you Dan. We'll be looking forward to your wood bowl project with great anticipation! | ||
DanSavage |
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Joined: June 2012 Posts: 2316 Location: Pueblo West, CO | A good pickup and preamp makes all the difference in the electronic sound of the guitar. This exercise tells me that the bowls on Ovations and the Alvarez DY92 are not truly spherical. The next exercise will involve making a bowl with a custom contour. Edited by DanSavage 2016-03-26 6:57 PM | ||
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