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Location: Da Windy City | AstroDan - 2013-09-12 11:51 PM
edit*** never mind
OK, edit me too.
(you're quick on that edit button. I was in the middle of replying  )
Edited by Guitar 2013-09-12 11:55 PM
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Location: Suisun City, Ca | OK. I'll post it then. When you get this guy on the hook Bobbo, I'm in. how about total of 20 for WW?
Give me a call when it's set up. |
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Location: Da Windy City | AstroDan - 2013-09-13 12:17 AM
OK. I'll post it then. When you get this guy on the hook Bobbo, I'm in. how about total of 20 for WW?
Give me a call when it's set up.
You're wagering another 10?
Because fine. You can pay your 'winnings' to whoever you want or you can keep them.
Bet accepted, but you do have to show up with the cash or a cashiers check. We're already going to be embarrassing the living **** out of one poor guy who talked awfully big on the internet but didn't 'meet at the flagpole' when the time came. As hilarious as the video is (us driving by his house and honking holding Telecasters out the window), it's not something that's funny over and over and over again with multiple idiots. Once is enough, the lesson was learned that the criteria for action has to be more solid before any time is wasted on our end. There are just too many people willing to talk big when its free, in the hopes it's all just a big joke...
Otherwise, if you thought this was a $10,000 freeroll where I set it all up and you 'take a shot' with no skin in the game just cuz you had nothing better to do on a Saturday afternoon... forgive me for chuckling at a grown man who can't read.
But the wager, sure. As noted for the fifth time now, it's open to any takers. PM button is right over <-- there.
Setting it up is the easy part.
Edited by Guitar 2013-09-13 12:29 AM
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Location: Suisun City, Ca | Do you act like this on other forums, or just this one? My skin in the game is my 10k, along with Bobs.
Do you have any idea who some of the folks, that you've blithely dismissed in here, are?
Kinda pathetic. But entertaining, for sure.
Thanks |
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Location: Da Windy City | AstroDan - 2013-09-13 12:28 AM
Do you act like this on other forums, or just this one? My skin in the game is my 10k, along with Bobs.
Do you have any idea who some of the folks, that you've blithely dismissed in here, are?
Kinda pathetic. But entertaining, for sure.
Thanks
Great!
Send me that PM. We have a lot of details to work out, but I have a feeling you're alone on this one.
Bob seems to have thought it was just a 'challenge' with some kind of donation, because I made a post about a hypothetical response to Bill Gates and, well, as we've seen quite recently, some people ain't such good readers.
But as noted, PM button's <-- right there.
Looking forward to it.
Edited by Guitar 2013-09-13 12:31 AM
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Location: Da Windy City | Oh, and for whatever it's worth, this is the last time I discuss something that's been covered.
Hit me with a PM, just need to verify some basic stuff (like, that you're a real person), work out a few logistics, you have to sign a release that we can use the video of you on the site, a contract that says you're participating and liable for our costs if you don't show up per specification and that's basically it. Easy peazy. To be clear, it's not "I can distinguish the polyphonic signatures between four guitars I've owned for 10 years and some are US and some aren't".
It's whether or not you can 'hear' a US instrument against a couple non US instruments when you've never heard those instruments before. Since one will be considerably more expensive than the others, naturally, the implication is that yes, you can, since you believe that cost is justified and one is distinctly better than the other. 100 sound samples, to preclude 'lucky guesswork', you have to beat mean chance expectation by 30%, twice.
Looking forward to hearing from ya, but totally tired of discussing it. PM button's right there <--
Edited by Guitar 2013-09-13 12:52 AM
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Location: Flahdaw | Guitar - 2013-09-13 1:29 AM
Bob seems to have thought it was just a 'challenge' with some kind of donation, because I made a post about a hypothetical response to Bill Gates and, well, as we've seen quite recently, some people ain't such good readers.
Hey now...there's a coupla different Bobs on this forum. Don't count on any money from me, I got a new house to buy. (I'm content to just lob a few spoo grenades from behind a wall when I see an opening...) |
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Location: Thredbo, NSW, Australia | Guitar - 2013-09-13 3:44 PM
Blah, blah, blah
Guitar. I've had the good fortune to be a member of OFC for just over a year. In that time I've asked for advice, and received a variety of opinions. All with good intentions, and all of them were and are sage advice.
I do my best to absorb and utilise what is given. And I continue to be amazed by the incredible knowledge of people here, such as OMApedia (my name for him), who is a wealth of knowledge, but more importantly is incredibly generous with that knowledge. Here am I some unknown from the southern hemisphere, and I continue to benefit from OMA's views, advice and suggestions.
This is not the place to showcase academic achievements, but I am actually a doctor of knowledge management (PhD). I work in both academic and corporate arenas. At OFC I witness the epitome of knowledge sharing and the knowledge management that all of the top 500 corporations strive to achieve - but few attain.
All of this is for no material gain to the giver. But the vast majority of the people who participate here do so for the love of and respect for the instruments to which you yourself acknowledge are great guitars.
If you don't like the views of the people here, just leave quietly - but respect their views.
Banjo.
Edited by BanjoJ 2013-09-13 6:58 AM
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Location: 6 String Ranch | Can't wait to get below the Mason-Dumbass line
Had enough of this northern expert with his specific and exacting mind
Click.
Edited by Beal 2013-09-13 7:31 AM
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Location: NJ | Okay, being that it's Friday th'13th, I'll use my Annual Increment to My PostCount:
This AssClown's Vernacular Verbosity is Exceeded ONLY by his Grating Demeanour.
Decorum usually dictates that One should "mingle" & get t'KNOW th'Hosts/Guests BEFORE Shitting in th'PunchBowl . . .
(click.)
- Sorry Today's not gonna'Work for You t'StopBy on yer Trip DownSowf, Beal. NextTime . . .
Edited by cliff 2013-09-13 9:48 AM
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Location: Da Windy City | BanjoJ - 2013-09-13 6:46 AM
If you don't like the views of the people here, just leave quietly - but respect their views.
Your premise is flawed which is pretty funny for someone with a "PhD in Knowledge Management".
What I am confronting is not 'the views of the people here'. There are plenty of totally rational people here.
It's the 'views' of one particular subset. You ask me to 'respect' those 'opinions'? My respect for those 'views' couldn't be any lower than if they were Bigfoot hunters or Spirit Chasers (I'll leave out a few highly popular dumb superstitions from that list)
Most annoying is that they tend to be the most pompous, obnoxious subset out there, sincerely believing that they own magic talismans and whenever some honest kid comes along to point out where his low import really didn't sound all that different from the expensive ones, THEY are the ones who mock and belittle HIM.
I've been watching this for years across guitar forum after guitar forum after guitar forum, where a vocal group of delusional 'believers' smugly positions themselves 'above' others simply because they paid (X) for an instrument in an expected act of ordinary confirmation bias, insist they did so beacause they can 'perceive' a profound difference. Frankly, I've totally tired of watching it. Superstitions of all kind are counterproductive, be they belief in Chupacabra or belief in the Magic Tone Angels kept in glass bottles at US Guitar Makers.
For whatever its worth, there are no PM's in that inbox right over <-- there.
Ask yourself why.
Ask yourself why if I proposed a wager that one couldn't distinguish an Ovation from a Martin and offered $10K, that box would be full right now, yet as we sit here and not, not single one of those loud 'believers' in magic-tone or a practical distinction in nation-of-origin is willing to stand up for their beliefs when it gets beyond the realm of inane internet prattle.
As noted, I hate no further interest in 'discussing' this.
At this point, if I can find the 'Kiai Master' willing to actually get in a mixed martial arts ring and wager the money, they know how to be in touch. This threads no longer proceeds under my interest. I have no problem letting it die, but I'll happily respond. If these idiots want to keep bumping it up and wondering why it doesn't turn out so well for them, that's their own problem.
Edited by Guitar 2013-09-13 12:15 PM
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Guitar - 2013-09-12 10:40 PM
Take an Asian made Ovation into Ovation USA and ask them what it would would retail be if they made that exact guitar here in the US, it would miraculously line up with what retail happens to be on USA Ovations.
But that's the fatal flaw in your arguement - if the USA shop built that guitar indeed it would cost 2-3x more. It may actually sound the same or similar but it would lack the razor sharp fret dress, the epoxied in dovetail and the paint and glue splatters on the inside.
If those details don't matter, then buy the import version. I'm having a hard time understanding exactly what is your point of discontent
- USA charges premium prices for quality that does not necessarily improve the sound?
- Asian labor rates and working conditions are poor?
- Many people buy with their eyes and heart rather than their ears?
What excatly is your point?
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Location: Central Massachusetts | Guitar - 2013-09-13 1:04 PM
Ask yourself why.
Ask yourself why if I proposed a wager that one couldn't distinguish an Ovation from a Martin and offered $10K, that box would be full right now, yet as we sit here and not, not single one of those loud 'believers' in magic-tone or a practical distinction in nation-of-origin is willing to stand up for their beliefs when it gets beyond the realm of inane internet prattle.
The bottom line is you haven't established any credibility or integrity here, so nobody wants to play your silly game where you (and your obvious bias) control all of the variables. |
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Location: Da Windy City | dvd - 2013-09-13 12:37 PM
The bottom line is you haven't established any credibility or integrity here, so nobody wants to play your silly game where you (and your obvious bias) control all of the variables.
You suck at understanding how 'science' works. I'm guessing you work in a liberal arts field (or, with a shovel of some kind)
The 'variables' are neutral. They're not biased to my position.
If the narrative that one can 'hear' a US made guitar were to be true, then the proposal would have absolutely have no problem whatsoever determining the credible tonal difference. If we used the exact same criteria only the question were "Can You Identify This Ovation From a Ukulele", it would yield a spectacularly positive result because there's a credible difference there.
As far as credibility, I did post the website this will be posted on and I've offered to travel, once we verify basic stuff (for example, we have AstroDan playing one dollar ($1) online poker MTTs, not exactly the realm of someone seriously willing to step up and bet ten grand. In his case, verifying the financials on his end would be a big part)... but if that's the 'out' someone needs to keep on believing in angels, then so be it.
Edited by Guitar 2013-09-13 1:32 PM
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Location: Da Windy City | Standingovation - 2013-09-13 12:25 PM
What excatly is your point?
That you cannot 'hear' the difference between a US and an Import. Try reading the thread.
As far as the US building an Asian guitar proposal, I'm really tired of holding peoples hands for repeated walks down Reading Compression Lane. Your response did not align with what I said.
On stuff like Les Pauls, the Epiphones are built to 100% spec of the Gibsons. There is literally no difference other than nation of origin but just like kook believers everywhere, in every niche, they all insist there is, but none of them are willing to demonstrate their faith.
Same thing with MIM Fender Strats, MIA Fender Strats and even whatever difference they insist they can 'hear' in something like a "Masterbuilt.
It's not like the phenomenon is unique to the quitar world. There's even a clinical term for it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias
In order to eliminate confirmation bias to determine credible efficacy, the gold standard is the blind test and establishing someones 'opinion' in that context. Most people trend inherently irrational, are easily manipulated by certain cues and/or are intellectually oriented by confirmation bias.
Edited by Guitar 2013-09-13 1:29 PM
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | 
As a reminder... This was the Original Post:
Brad Durasa - 2013-09-07 2:41 PM
I stopped in to our local, independent music store to just kick some tires.
This is where I have played and purchased a couple ovations.
They have stocked AD-II, milleniun, 30th anniversary, and some adamii.
The four ovations they have left have been banished from the acoustic room and now hang on the wall accompanied by the lowest of the low imports.
****sigh****
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Location: south east Michigan | Giter,
As trolls go you are quite articulate and well spoken.
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.... you're welcome.
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Your ability to take responses and pick & choose parts out of context is admirable.
You'd do well on a debate team. Your talents are wasted here.
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Location: Da Windy City | I realize "TROLL" eventually becomes a mantra to people trying desperately to maintain a stupid belief system, and I've seen pretty clearly that there are a few people here operating in the short-bus IQ range- I'm doing my best to just ignore them- but really, you guys can do better than squealing 'troll'.
You can chant it all you wish, but it's still not just as baseless as your beliefs in magical tone.
This is not trolling. It's pointing out a gigantic fallacy that exists among some people, then demonstrating just how totally indefensible and weak their position is with even the slightest scrutiny.
Edited by Guitar 2013-09-13 1:36 PM
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I may not be able to pick a Balladeer out of a group of Celebs, but I do know a troll when I see one.
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Location: Da Windy City | ^ See? ^
Totally ignoring him.
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Location: south east Michigan | You don't have to try so hard.
You had me at "gigantic fallacy". |
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Location: Da Windy City | Brad Durasa - 2013-09-13 1:37 PM
You don't have to try so hard.
You had me at "gigantic fallacy".
There does come a point where a large group of stupid believers just starts making an *** of itself.
You guys are rapidly devolving into squealing 'troll' and making dumb quips.
It ain't lookin' good fer ya... |
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Location: Central Massachusetts | Guitar - 2013-09-13 2:16 PM
You suck at understanding how 'science' works. I'm guessing you work in a liberal arts field (or, with a shovel of some kind)
Wow, you got all of that all from a mere 31 words? You're a genius!
The 'variables' are neutral. They're not biased to my position.
You said yourself, "1) I will determine the criteria, not you. I also determine the instruments."
Your blind test may work fine to help eliminate confirmation bias, but we'd need to go double-blind to eliminate your biases. I think a fellow ditch-digger mentioned that to me once.
Good luck trolling for suckers for your awesome website.
I should have listened to the (click)'s |
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Location: Utah | Corksniffer? Me? Never been called that before, usually people use some combination of "cheap" "bastard" and "drama queen" to describe me. (OMA called me an Old Fart earlier). But if its true I'm a corksniffer, I'm ok with it. Though the T can have a bit of a petroleum odor, and the Adamas has no odor at all. The best is the Hamer Newport, especially after it has been in the case for a while.
There are worse things to be, like a Cork Soaker. |
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| This is some excitement and I'm really proud of the moderators letting things go as they are. These are both big boys that can take care of themselves and if this does get done, I will be REALLY interested in the result. |
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so sad
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