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New guitars from New Hartford?
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Posted 2012-10-15 12:09 AM (#460414 - in reply to #460167) Subject: Re: New guitars from New Hartford?
Joined: August 2003 Posts: 4619
Location: SoCal
Unfortunately, I believe we have or will scare any Ovation product manager working for Fender away from us.
Innovation? Not much I would ask for other than the OP-Pro related pre-amps (OP-Pro, Studio, VIP, iDea). Most of you know I like abalone...especially on a Custom Legend with AAA, center hole, and 'A' braced. Other than the 2009C KOA (thank you Al for 001), what is better than the 2004 1719-30CM? Want distinctive epaulets instead of center hole, then Elite. Just don't give me side holes, etc.
Want redwood top, 2001C are available, Engleman Spruce the 2005C, etc. The factory did give options as to wood tops.
Whether a wood box or the Ovation bowl, not a lot (except electronics) that they can do...sure, change the headstock or bridge...big deal. What they can do is look for profit margin by overseas or create a quality guitar for those few that prefer a 'new' guitar. Kind of like those that buy a new Mercedes v. a two or three year old one. Yes, small number.
Comes down to a basic design, a lot produced over the years, limited production line as a number of previously sold guitars are on the used market, etc.
Want a higher profit margin and more exposure in guitar stores, then produce overseas as Fender, Ovation (then), Gibson, and Fender already did. Not high end but sound good when amplified. They are the majority that will sell with the current dissatisfaction/concern over the economy (other than used).
As to Adamas, I believe that the textured top 1687, 1688 12-string, and the pre-production (or the reissues) can not be improved on.
So, stand by for Fender's problem with debt and failure to go forward with an IPO (those in the know felt it was over-valued, estimated value far below the projected value, a candidate for take-over just for their debt load), as well as other manufacturers, that have serious profitability problems. This is not new, we have gone through periods of favior and unfavior as to quality guitars not in favor.
My suggestion for Fender is to continue with their long term Fender line, give support to the new Guild line, and not support the Ovation/Cleb/Adamas. Penny pinchin' in support of Ovation/Cleb/Adamas will just result in addititional loss. Fender wanted the distribution and logistics part of Ovation. Now that they have that, they would be better off selling Ovation/Adamas/Celeb/Hamer for a loss to someone who values the line.
Posted 2012-10-15 8:57 AM (#460418 - in reply to #460167) Subject: Re: New guitars from New Hartford?
Joined: June 2002 Posts: 6202
Location: Phoenix AZ
The problem (not really a problem, but interesting discussion) with theads like this is that it's only natural that we SHOP in the virtual world, but we BUY in the real world. Let me say it another way ... we SHOP with our minds and imagination, buy we BUY with our wallets.
Want a top quality Ovation USA made wood top guitar that stands shoulder to shoulder with Martin, Guild and Taylor? It's there. It's called the wood top Adamas and available with Deep or Contour bowl, cutaway or non-cutaway. Your choice. Get your wallet ready.
Oh but why should I pay $3000. when I can buy one that looks just like it from Asia for $1000. ???
Posted 2012-10-15 9:32 AM (#460420 - in reply to #460167) Subject: Re: New guitars from New Hartford?
Joined: March 2005 Posts: 12759
Location: Boise, Idaho
I agree with the last four old farts. (I just noticed that I've been to each of their homes.) In the last 7 years that I renewed my interest in Ovation and in guitars in general, Ovation has come out with some great stuff. Yes, we recommend used, but like Stephen said, everyone who seeks advice here asks for a recommendation for their first Ovation on a budget. If anyone ever came here for the first time and asked for a recommendation for a great guitar comparable to their high end wood box, we'd have plenty of suggestions for new ones. The collectors or limited editions in the last few years have been excellent. Like Tony said, the 2009C was fantastic and I'd have one if I hadn't bought the LAV Koa. Then the 2010 ALE is an excellent guitar that everyone should have, but only 50 of us could. Just when we thought Ovation would stop producing those top of the line limited editions, they came out with the 2011s. I still need one of those, as well as the wood topped Adamas. That guitar really got the GAS going as much as anything I played in the last few years. I just hope they can keep producing guitars like that until the economy turns around.
And Bobbo, the only reason I'd tell you to get off my lawn is to invite you in for a beer.
Posted 2012-10-15 9:56 AM (#460421 - in reply to #460167) Subject: Re: New guitars from New Hartford?
Joined: January 2006 Posts: 5881
Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains
I'm not much of a vintage guitar guy. Sure, I have a few, including my "rehearsal/back-up" Legend from 1984, but my favorites and those most frequently used for gigging are the customs made over the past six years. I wish I would be around to hear how they sound 30 or 40 years from now.
Posted 2012-10-15 10:19 AM (#460422 - in reply to #460167) Subject: Re: New guitars from New Hartford?
Joined: March 2002 Posts: 15676
Location: SoCal
Ultimately, it's going to be a matter of how do you market the guitars? How do you get them into the hands of popular players so people can see them? You can't be interested in a high end Ovation if all you see are Celebs....
Posted 2012-10-15 10:20 AM (#460423 - in reply to #460167) Subject: RE: New guitars from New Hartford?
Joined: May 2006 Posts: 4232
Location: Steeler Nation, Hudson Valley Contingent
I started on a Celebrity; played it for over ten years; still have access to it when I visit my sister.
I own several "vintage/classic/pick your term" models. They're all great!
I own several "new/more recent/custom" models. Also great!
I love Ovation guitars.
I have trouble finding comparable instruments at ANY of their given price points. The only wood boxes I've owned in over a decade were a high end Taylor (714-ce), Martin (D-42), and Collings (Custom D-41). Only one is still in my possession, and I'm thinking hard about selling that one. (It's pricey though. )
Posted 2012-10-15 11:03 AM (#460424 - in reply to #460167) Subject: Re: New guitars from New Hartford?
Joined: March 2008 Posts: 2683
Location: Hot Springs, S.D.
This keeps going around in circles. Innovation is nice, but so are the old ones. In my opinion, getting the guitars OUT THERE is what is needed. Celebrity endorsements, and availability. If there are no guitars in the stores for people to try, they will buy brand X instead. If Ovations of all price points are hanging in the stores for people to try, they will sell themselves. ESPECIALLY if some popular artists are seen/heard playing them.
Posted 2012-10-15 1:54 PM (#460434 - in reply to #460167) Subject: Re: New guitars from New Hartford?
Joined: March 2005 Posts: 12759
Location: Boise, Idaho
The other thread on Kaki King just reminded me of another prop and suggestion for Ovation. Find the next Kaki King. I first heard and saw her on the Ovation site when the percussive style was new to me. Preston Reed had been around awhile, but I had only just heard of him because he did a concert here. She looked like a teenager and wasn't much older. Even though I hadn't seen anyone do the tapping and playing from the top of the neck, I could see she had a ton of talent.
Kaki's signature model isn't for me, but it is exactly what I think Ovation needs to keep doing...get those guitars out to the up and comers. I have never seen a KK signature Adamas in a music store, however. I hope there are some out in the larger markets.
Posted 2012-10-15 2:13 PM (#460436 - in reply to #460424) Subject: Re: New guitars from New Hartford?
Joined: December 2001 Posts: 7233
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest
CanterburyStrings - 2012-10-15 9:03 AM
If there are no guitars in the stores for people to try, they will buy brand X instead.
This has been mentioned a few times, and I really wonder if having instruments in stores is a valid argument for sales, or just an annoyance that some manufactures have to put up with. The reason I even think about this is based on the Pacific Northwest. Almost EVERYONE I know has a guitar in their house of one sort of another. Maybe they play it, maybe they don't, but it's hard to find a home that doesn't have one. On the other hand, there are only a few musical instrument stores in the entire state of Washington, and most they're not real convenient to get to unless you live in/near the cities where they are located. There is no way those few stores have supplied anywhere near close to the number of instruments in this state.
In fact, right now there are 2491 guitars listed in the Seattle craigslist. I'm sure that's more used guitars than new ones you could find in the entire state and that's just a snapshot of today and used guitars of ONE city.
I think this is the struggle of all manufacturers who sell something that's relatively easily shipped. Guitars are on the fringe of the easy-to-ship category but still, it's pretty easy. One one hand they somewhat need a store to showcase their items, but on the otherhand... one word... Carvin. Maybe Carvin in their infinite wisdom, or sheer dumb luck, had the marketing model of the future all figured out long ago.
They get their guitars into the hands of players who are seen and recognized enough to have influence. They sell mostly online, direct to their customers. They have only three stores, all in California, no retailers, and they sell a LOT of guitars worldwide and have been doing so for many years.
Posted 2012-10-15 3:34 PM (#460440 - in reply to #460167) Subject: Re: New guitars from New Hartford?
Joined: December 2006 Posts: 6995
Location: Jet City
2 of the last 3 BRAND NEW Ovations I bought were from a brick and mortar store here locally (and the other from Al)... just saying. I'm sure I'm the exception, but the only reason I bought an O in the first place is because one was hanging in the store and I tried it and fell in love with the sound and playability. I had initially gone in to buy a Breedlove or Seagull.
Used is a different story. If I can fid a deal on something used there's no risk really involved. If it doesn't make the cut I'll sell it, typically without financial loss.
Posted 2012-10-15 6:25 PM (#460445 - in reply to #460167) Subject: Re: New guitars from New Hartford?
Joined: March 2008 Posts: 2683
Location: Hot Springs, S.D.
But as someone here already said, a lot of those online sales stem from someone trying a guitar in a brick and mortar store. Once they have played it and decide they like it, they often go online to find the lowest price.
And there is also a lot to be said for "the look". I can always tell by "the look" when someone is going to buy a guitar. They play it and I can tell they are in love and won't be leaving without it. Some people WILL go online, but there are still a lot of people who want that particular guitar.
I hear folks here say that Ovations are more consistant than most brands, but they are still made of wood, and each piece of wood has a different sound. My 2077LX is a good example. I had two of them here in the shop at the same time. Both were great, but mine blew the other one away. And even the Adamas guitars vary. After I ordered my 1581 from Al, a friend asked me to get him one. We have consecutive serial numbers, yet there is quite a difference in tone. (Thanks, AL, for picking out the best sounding one to send to me.)
Posted 2012-10-15 7:31 PM (#460448 - in reply to #460167) Subject: Re: New guitars from New Hartford?
Joined: August 2012 Posts: 227
Ok, StoneBobbo,
You gave a pretty good list;
Carved chambered mahogany body with spruce top (EA series)
Mid-depth bowl
On-board tuner on preamp (optima)
Combined piezo/microphonic pickup (hex-fx)
Advanced Neck System (LX series)
Microsphere glass bowl (advanced Lyracord)
Interchangeable preamps (OP series)
SMT and CVT Adamas tops
Contour Bowl
Set neck designs (2008C and OFC2)
New sound hole designs (2080, Collectors 2006, +
Laser cut inlaid epaulets
On board preamp "boost" button
Wood top Adamas with suspension ring
iDea preamp
However, there are a few that really don't shout innovation.
Mid-depth bowl ? They made a deep and a shallow already so no great stretch there.
A pre-amp with a built in tuner. Ummm LOTS of people have had that.
A pre-amp with a boost button ? Quicker than turning the knob a little, I guess.
The new tear drop sound hole rather than the Elite pattern ? I thought McPherson did that first ? It may not have been the same exact shape, but that's sort of where they put the sound hole.
Laser cut inlaid epaulets ? Innovation or just an improved manufacturing method ?
When did the EA series come out ? I see some as old as 1996. I will call the new ones, with the "f" holes innovative.
The LX series. Good changes. Are they still around ? Ummm no. Did they incorporate those changes into the current models ?
So, what we have left is:
Combined piezo/microphonic pickup (hex-fx) ( OvationTribute lists that as "1990s" )
Advanced Neck System (LX series)
Microsphere glass bowl (advanced Lyracord) ( Also LX Series )
Interchangeable preamps (OP series) ( Good. But did they sell it as such or did people just figure it out ? Some of the shapes changed, so that not quite "interchangable" through the whole OP series. )
SMT and CVT Adamas tops
Posted 2012-10-15 9:22 PM (#460455 - in reply to #460167) Subject: Re: New guitars from New Hartford?
Joined: April 2004 Posts: 13303
Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066
John,
Lets compare that list of innovations to the ones made by Martin, Taylor, etc over the last 10 years that weren't some variation of an Ovation design.
Posted 2012-10-15 9:26 PM (#460456 - in reply to #460448) Subject: Re: New guitars from New Hartford?
Joined: April 2008 Posts: 2985
Location: Sydney, Australia
JohnW63 - 2012-10-16 10:31 AM
So, what we have left is:
Combined piezo/microphonic pickup (hex-fx) ( OvationTribute lists that as "1990s" )
Advanced Neck System (LX series)
Microsphere glass bowl (advanced Lyracord) ( Also LX Series )
Interchangeable preamps (OP series) ( Good. But did they sell it as such or did people just figure it out ? Some of the shapes changed, so that not quite "interchangable" through the whole OP series. )
SMT and CVT Adamas tops
And what changes have Martin, Taylor et al. made in the same period?
New guitars from New Hartford?
) 
Post a couple weeks ago.