|
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7233
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Originally posted by Guitarzannie:
what do you suggest to someone who lacks experience and is trying to break into performing in front of the public? I guess it depends on what you'd like to do... but assuming the 'ol guitar player/singer thing...
Approach it like you are a pro. Work up a set and practice it till you're comfortable. Video yourself doing the set from start to finish treating the camera as your audience.. talk to it, tell it a joke... whatever. It's your eyes.. Watch, rinse, repeat..
Rather than exposing yourself to the scrutiny of a bunch of other musicians, just worry about you. Find a venue that looks like it might be fun to have someone playing a guitar and singing a few songs. Put out a bucket for tips if you can. Maybe someplace that already has that going... a coffee house maybe.. and offer your services to a band that plays there to play on their break, or maybe open for them. Don't forget your tip jar. And remember, this is entertainment... even the tip bucket should reflect your personality. A hat, a kangaroo with it's pocket open.. etc.. Just because you are a rookie doesn't mean you have to act like one. Remember, these are all strangers.. they don't know the difference if you have been playing for years or it's your first gig... unless you tell them.. so don't.
8
As a last resort, you might also offer to do your show for friends. The reason I say last resort is that the LAST people you want to play for are people who will tell you that you are good, no matter what. Hey, you might be really good.. which is fine... but if you aren't.. you don't need friends telling you that you are.
If you play for strangers, you are on a level playing field. They don't know you, you don't know them. A great opportunity to forge a 45 minute-ish relationship. Sometimes it will be great, sometimes it will utterly suck. But in either case you won't have to ask "how was i"... you will know. If you leave a gig not knowing how you did... you're at the wrong venue.
Remember to have fun, be entertaining, and people will either like you or not. It's pretty simple. If they don't like you... oh well.. doesn't mean the next crowd won't think you're the best thing they have ever heard. As long as you are having fun, doing your best.. that's all that counts.
Originally posted by Guitarzannie:
And do you think that open mikes are helping depress the wages of those who perform music as a profession?
Michelle [/QB] YES.. At least if you offer to play as an opening act, or even if you just play for tips, you are doing it for YOU.
I realize there are A FEW (very few) open mic nights that are fun I guess.. To me the thought of doing one or two songs is terrifying. Back to that "relationship." I'd rather spend some time with an audience, get to try and entertain them. I might not be successful, but at least I got a fair shake at it. Playing a couple songs at an open mic I guess only proves you can play a couple of songs at an open mic night.
But don't let me be misundastood (Thanks Pink). If you WANT to do an open mic, just for giggles... DO IT!!! There's nothing inherently wrong with it. And if there is an open mic night, you showing up or not will not change the fact that the venue is getting a night of entertainment for free. As a single performer, you have no affect on the "helping depress the wages of those who perform music as a profession."
As a musician starting out... at least for me.. the pressure of a live audience was enough... having an audience full of musicians gives me shivers to this day. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2008
Posts: 119
Location: everywhere | Originally posted by Guitarzannie:
And do you think that open mikes are helping depress the wages of those who perform music as a profession?
Michelle An interesting point. Open mike nights can be a ruse by venue owners to get free entertainment, so it could be seen as supporting what you suggest. On the other hand the majority of open mics take place on quiet midweek nights when a pro would be unecomomical unless they were popular enough to draw a crowd and/or stand a cover charge. The better organized open mics usually pay a pro or semi-pro to run the show anyway. I don't think there are many pro musicians blaming open mics for lack of work or low wages.
A noble thought, but I wouldn't let it stop you trying your hand. Even a badly organised open mic is good for your learning curve, and the better ones can be great. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2008
Posts: 119
Location: everywhere | edit - accidental post |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2009
Posts: 715
| Caravan and Miles, thanks!
Where I go, you are allowed a 5 song set, and sometimes you can go as long as 15 minutes.
I put so much pressure on myself that I don't actually enjoy the experience. I really have to get over that. I want to do something with my music, like touch people's hearts and minds. I've thought about playing at church, but I'm not at that level yet.
The most fun I've had recently is noodling around and listening to Alun Davies on "Father and Son".
Michelle |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2006
Posts: 3969
| Originally posted by Guitarzannie:
I put so much pressure on myself that I don't actually enjoy the experience. You're far more judgmental on yourself than anyone else will be. "There's a reason they call it playing music." It's supposed to be fun. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2006
Posts: 5881
Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | Any opportunity to play along with others is also helpful and rewarding. If you screw up, they still continue and you can get right back into it, often with little notice or negative fanfare. If you're playing or performing by yourself, a similar mistake can leave you pretty well exposed. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
April 2006
Posts: 2491
Location: Copenhagen Denmark | GitZan : ..
Let`s start at the beginning ..
What is it that YOU want to achieve ??
Do Ye wanna be Heard ?? ..
Do Ye wanna be Seen ..
Are YOU Good Enough to be Heard .. Seen .. ?!.. Ya Think ? ..
YESS Ya Do !! .. ( or ya would n`t be thinkin` of it !! )
A Little ( very little ) Advice !!
Ye take a mirror ( Instant Feedback ) .. and Ye play that Git. , singin`them pipes o` yers , while lookin` into said mirror , makin` Faces , and Ye Find when Ya look Good ! .. if in case , get help ( with make-up and such ) from sisters/sisters in law , Ma , aunty sweet or ...
Ya take it from there !!
Ye LEARN .. Fallin`, and .. Gettin`up ..
FIVE Songs and Yer in Business !!! ..
.. come on girl , YOU CAN DO IT !!! ..
Vic |
|
| |
|
Joined:
July 2003
Posts: 3111
Location: Nashville TN. | Originally posted by alpep:
cash? well I am so far in the hole it is not funny
but does getting sex from an appreciative female fan count? Yes it does |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2009
Posts: 715
| Originally posted by ProfessorBB:
Any opportunity to play along with others is also helpful and rewarding. well exposed. Yep, and that's why I'm making my way to the ladies gathering. That and get the ability to get my hands on a Tornado and a Patriot!
Michelle |
|
| |
|
Joined:
October 2005
Posts: 4067
Location: Utah | I find that I am much more concerned about disappointing my bandmates than disappointing the audience. Bandmates know when I screw up, the audience doesn't.
I told the singer that I used to be a perfectionist but it wasn't healthy. Now I'm working on imperfection!
As far as depressing wages, around here it is not an issue. Mostly, there are no wages to depress. The kind of places that have open mics would never be able to pay for entertainment. The big clubs want high quality and therefore don't do open mics.
Many venues are pay-to-play, where the band has to bring an audience and then gets a cut of ticket money. But if you don't bring your 20 people, you don't play.
Consequently, many amateur musicians will play open mics simply as a way to play in public without the stress of having to get their friends to buy tickets. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2006
Posts: 1483
Location: Michigan | flysig you have to explain this bring your own 20 person audience in who must buy a ticket so you can play :confused: are you talking about the bars doing this :confused:
is idaho a part of the u.s.a. :confused: GWB |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2005
Posts: 12759
Location: Boise, Idaho | Idaho is what America was, but Flysig is from Utah. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
April 2006
Posts: 2491
Location: Copenhagen Denmark | You are ready when the Pressure is Dim.. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2006
Posts: 1483
Location: Michigan | it has been a bad few weeks for me so forgive the messed up blogs by this guy:rolleyes: GWB |
|
| |
|
Joined:
April 2006
Posts: 2491
Location: Copenhagen Denmark | I know GWB , my sincere Condolences ..
Vic |
|
| |
|
Joined:
October 2005
Posts: 4067
Location: Utah | Originally posted by Mark in Boise:
Idaho is what America was, but Flysig is from Utah. Utah is what America thought it was in 1950. In a good way. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
October 2005
Posts: 4067
Location: Utah | Originally posted by guitarwannabee:
flysig you have to explain this bring your own 20 person audience in who must buy a ticket so you can play :confused: are you talking about the bars doing this :confused: GWB The bars around here are private clubs. Well, they used to be, but that's a long story. The larger clubs that have live music pay the band. There is typically a cover charge to get in. It is pretty much like anyplace else, except that there are fewer clubs and patrons because 55% of the state's population doesn't drink due to their religious requirements.
Which means that clubs don't pay very well in general.
It also means that there are a lot of musicians who won't play in a bar due to religious convictions. There is a shortage of bars to play in if you are not LDS, and an excess of musicians who are looking for non-bar gigs.
Other than bars and some restaurants, all of the other venues are pay-to-play. The upside to Utah is that there is a whole lot of good music going on, and a relatively large number of venues. The venues are concert facilities ranging from small room to full auditorium. The downside is that the musicians have to sell their own tickets. The venue will have tickets for sale at the door, too. They keep track of which act the ticket is purchased for.
For example, at your typical venue on a Friday night there will be 3 or 4 acts performing. Each act will have to pre-sell 20 tickets in order to play. The band will twitter, email, text, and Myspace all of their friends and fans to try to sell those 20 tickets. Tickets are usually $7 to $10 each. If you don't sell all the tickets, you can cough up the cash yourself, or you can hope that a few fans buy tickets at the door.
Once you sell the required tickets, usually 20, the venue will split 25% to 50% of the remaining sales with you. So you get nothing if you only sell 20 tickets. If you sell 30 tickets, you might walk away with $50 at the end of the night. Plus tips, plus merch sales.
Usually the act that sells the most tickets will get their choice of when to play. The other acts choose in descending order when to play. About a half hour before the show starts, the first band sets up and does sound check. Everyone is texting/tweeting/emailing their fans to tell them when they are on.
It is a crazy system where the venue owners have offloaded most of the marketing, publicity, and ticket sales onto the artists.
The coffee shop or bar open mic is becoming more popular and more controversial. Artists hate selling their own tickets all the time, so they are happy to invite their 20 friends to a coffee shop, book store, or bar to hear them play for an hour. They aren't getting paid, but they wouldn't have made much at a venue either. The open mic is stress free. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
April 2006
Posts: 1017
Location: Budd Lake, NJ | Most of my guitar life I haven't been paid for playing out; from time to time I have received small stipends for my church work, and just in the last two years any money from our bluegrass group. (Most of the beginning gig money went for a PA, mikes, stands, etc.)
Our best gig this year earned us $80 each for two hours of playing under a canopy while it poured outside around us--and the canopy leaked where it was tucked under an adjoining larger tent...Jewel didn't actually get wet, but it was a close call. Most of the time we get between $20-$30 apiece by the time it's split anywhere from 6 to 10 ways. I think I've gotten paid 4, maybe 5 times this year.
The only open mikes I've done have been with the OFC, and they are just a great experience. And that's why the jams are so much fun--we play at so many different levels of ability and development, and everyone I've met so far has been generous with both sharing how they play things and encouraging those coming along behind them. (A word to the Sisterhood--my guitars look a whole lot better than I play, just so's you're forewarned... :D )
--Karen |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2008
Posts: 2683
Location: Hot Springs, S.D. | Sorry Karen, I have to disagree with you on that. I have heard you play (just over the phone, but nevertheless...) you play very well, and your singing is absolutely beautiful. Not to mention your songwriting ability. Maybe at the gathering this weekend, someone could show you how to post music so everybody can hear you? |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2006
Posts: 6268
Location: Florida Central Gulf Coast | Originally posted by CanterburyStrings:
your singing is absolutely beautiful. I enjoyed your "Audrey's Song" at the '09 Retreat!  |
|
| |
|
Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | by Jewel's Mom a/k/a Joisey Goil #1:
(A word to the Sisterhood--my guitars look a whole lot better than I play, just so's you're forewarned... :D )
--Karen I can relate! A whole lot of people compliment my guitars... then they tell me that my playing "don't suck".
[I got the Koa Celebrity just for that reason.
I can take it out in crappy weather and it will still look Marvelous.]
See? I got that sign "Fishing for Compliments" :cool: |
|
| |
|
Joined:
April 2006
Posts: 2491
Location: Copenhagen Denmark | U scored a DOLLAR ?!! .. get OFF the street U Pro ..!! :D
..the rest o` us score peanuts .. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2006
Posts: 1483
Location: Michigan | arthur your only 50 cents away from topping slipkid's pay per view debut... :D GWB |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2003
Posts: 195
Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado | Don't know if this was a serious question, but it got me to thinking.. It would be hard to account for every job and every dime in 40 years of gigging. Some years I didn't work at all. Some I was very busy. And, if course, there's a huge disparity in the pay scale from the 60s to now. (Well.. At least in some places! There are bands here in Colorado still working for fifty bucks a night per man.) But after some consideration, I would guess that I have done pretty well for a weekend hacker with no formal training. This number is mostly just from my recollections and not from the sum of 40 years of tax returns. (Yes.. Taxes were paid on most!) ;) So my total is somewhere around 160 grand or so. Which would average around 4 grand a year. About seventy five clams a weekend. Not much in the singular, but there is something to be said for 40+ years of working in stinky bars.. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7233
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Originally posted by FlySig:
Originally posted by guitarwannabee:
flysig you have to explain this bring your own 20 person audience in who must buy a ticket so you can play :confused: are you talking about the bars doing this :confused: GWB The bars around here are private clubs. Well, they used to be, but that's a long story. The larger clubs that have live music pay the band. There is typically a cover charge to get in. It is pretty much like anyplace else, except that there are fewer clubs and patrons because 55% of the state's population doesn't drink due to their religious requirements.
Which means that clubs don't pay very well in general.
It also means that there are a lot of musicians who won't play in a bar due to religious convictions. There is a shortage of bars to play in if you are not LDS, and an excess of musicians who are looking for non-bar gigs.
Other than bars and some restaurants, all of the other venues are pay-to-play. The upside to Utah is that there is a whole lot of good music going on, and a relatively large number of venues. The venues are concert facilities ranging from small room to full auditorium. The downside is that the musicians have to sell their own tickets. The venue will have tickets for sale at the door, too. They keep track of which act the ticket is purchased for.
For example, at your typical venue on a Friday night there will be 3 or 4 acts performing. Each act will have to pre-sell 20 tickets in order to play. The band will twitter, email, text, and Myspace all of their friends and fans to try to sell those 20 tickets. Tickets are usually $7 to $10 each. If you don't sell all the tickets, you can cough up the cash yourself, or you can hope that a few fans buy tickets at the door.
Once you sell the required tickets, usually 20, the venue will split 25% to 50% of the remaining sales with you. So you get nothing if you only sell 20 tickets. If you sell 30 tickets, you might walk away with $50 at the end of the night. Plus tips, plus merch sales.
Usually the act that sells the most tickets will get their choice of when to play. The other acts choose in descending order when to play. About a half hour before the show starts, the first band sets up and does sound check. Everyone is texting/tweeting/emailing their fans to tell them when they are on.
It is a crazy system where the venue owners have offloaded most of the marketing, publicity, and ticket sales onto the artists.
The coffee shop or bar open mic is becoming more popular and more controversial. Artists hate selling their own tickets all the time, so they are happy to invite their 20 friends to a coffee shop, book store, or bar to hear them play for an hour. They aren't getting paid, but they wouldn't have made much at a venue either. The open mic is stress free.
Jaxx Rules |
|
| |
what is your lifetime $ income $ so far for playing your music???
