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Location: sitting at my computer | I vote for different headstock logos 
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Location: Flahdaw | Think about this....
China owns most of our debt.
50% of our Federal Spending is entitlements. The majority of those folks on entitlements spend MOST of that money (other than food items) on foreign-made goods, predominantly Asian-made. (often at Walmart, a subsidiary of China  ...)
Foreign workers here in the US send a large amount of money home to their families, where they don't spend it on US goods.
The US sends BILLIONS out of our country in the name of foreign aid programs.
Even the wealthy here buy European cars, Italian clothes, French wines, and other imported goods and services.
This country's economy is on the brink of collapse and there is little we are willing to do about it. |
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Location: Hot Springs, S.D. | As OMA said, overseas factories will make whatever they are told to make. Suppose DW told them to make our favorite wood guitars exactly the way they were always made in the USA. They will BE exactly the same as a USA made guitar. I'd have no problem with that. My Morgan Monroe Bean Blossom Gettysburg was made in China and I have had at least two people who owned Martin HD28's (one vintage from the 70's, and one brand new) BEG me to trade with them. Overseas guitars CAN be top quality.
Now, suppose the Legends and Elites are made overseas and they turn out to be great guitars. That leaves the USA factory to start making Adamas' and perhaps something completely new that will blow our minds. I'D be happy. |
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Location: SoCal | This thread is giving me more than a little heartburn. We have had discussions about the problem of overseas guitars branded as Ovation and the effect that it has on the reputation of US Ovations. Dave, Brad, OMA are merely saying what we have observed over the years, yet are being attacked.
I have no problem with DW using the offshore advantages to produce a product for a specific low price point...but I do have a problem with no difference in logo, head stock, and marketing between an offshore and US model.
I have bought a number of new and used US Ovations and Adamas guitars.
Yes, I have an Applause tenor uke as well as the Celeb parlor and soprano uke (limited run with the palm tree cutouts-only as my wife wanted them). I have not bought a new Ovation or Adamas since KMC became a Fender product.
Since 2007, I have bought a number of Takamines - offshore but excellent guitars (playability and quality). The low end Takamine Jasmine is not confused with the quality Takamine line as the Ovation logo on a Celeb is to the US made Ovation.
There is a short term opportunity for DW to reinforce the reputation of a US Ovation and Adamas but only if they specifically define overseas v. US production with at least the logo, head stock, and service.
Give the guitar stores a Celeb logo guitar with good turnover with the entry level market, a warranty, and repair facilities.
Yet, give the US, Asian, and Europe markets a US guitar as of old (quality materials, innovated electronics, warranty, repair staff, and dedicated employees).
Current reputation is not good. As we have discussed on this forum, it will not be easy to rebuild reputation and trust with buyers for guitar stores, artists, and players. Question that, just check out how many artists are currently playing a US Ovation or Adamas on stage. Failure will result in closing the factory down and exclusive overseas production. |
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Location: undisclosed | I had a really fun time recently at Gryphon Strings a high end acoustic Bay area shop. They told me to play everything that looked interesting so I did. Going through the archtops including vintage Gibsons was a eye opener. The 60's Johnny Smith, hand carved with floating pickups, was the quietest one acoustically, the loudest was a $700 Loar. The best neck and playability was on a Ibanez Joe Pass while my favorite blend of everything, playing comfort, volume, tone etc.... turned out to be a 60s Gibson Byrdland.
Moving on to the Nylon strings the real surprise was that Taylor couldn't make a nylon string that had anything resembling volume or tone. The best value was a brand called Kremona made in I think Bulgaria. Even their least expensive model blew away the most expensive Taylor. The best classical there was a hand made Dupont with a large oval sound hole.
My conclusion was a cash strapped archtop player wouldn't be losing much in terms of tone and playability with a Loar and a nylon string player needing value should get a Kremona. I also realized my rebuilt from a wreck and rodded ES125 and rescued from submersion Country Artist still deliver what I need. In short, the results were all over the map in terms of budget, place of manufacture and craftsmanship. Being a starving Artist means looking for the best bang for the buck and subscribing to the one monkey theory of the world population. We all breathe the same air and drink the same water and have the same aptitude for skill sets. Keeping an open mind can let you score the results of a craftsman's good day regardless if they are in Mongolia or Manhattan.
Edited by Cavalier 2015-08-20 4:19 PM
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Location: Tennessee | darkbarguitar - 2015-08-20 10:45 AM Think about this.... China owns most of our debt. Don't fall for the political hysteria and misinformation. China owns less than 7% of the US National debt. Japan actually holds more of our debt than China. |
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Location: Frozen Tundra of Minnesota | Tony Calman - 2015-08-20 4:14 PM
There is a short term opportunity for DW to reinforce the reputation of a US Ovation and Adamas but only if they specifically define overseas v. US production with at least the logo, head stock, and service.
Give the guitar stores a Celeb logo guitar with good turnover with the entry level market, a warranty, and repair facilities.
Yet, give the US, Asian, and Europe markets a US guitar as of old (quality materials, innovated electronics, warranty, repair staff, and dedicated employees).
Current reputation is not good. As we have discussed on this forum, it will not be easy to rebuild reputation and trust with buyers for guitar stores, artists, and players. Question that, just check out how many artists are currently playing a US Ovation or Adamas on stage. Failure will result in closing the factory down and exclusive overseas production.
I would love to see this too Tony!
Bill X - can you tell us if DW is considering something along these lines at this time, or in the near future?
I have no problem with the overseas manufacturing of lesser expensive pieces - there is definitely a market for them, and if DW doesn't make money, we will lose Ovation again!
But... if we are going to be paying more for the American Made pieces - we want it clearly visible that these *are* the American Made, higher end pieces. Tony makes very valid points.
Damon, I agree with you too - if there were IDENTICAL Ovations side by side, one made over seas, and one made here, the only difference being $100 price difference higher for the USA made one. I would pay the $100 extra for the Made in America, because I know John Budny, and the other Folks there in CT, and they are trying to feed their Families here. I could justify the extra by keeping American workers working.
Edited by Nancy 2015-08-20 7:14 PM
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Location: Frozen Tundra of Minnesota | naellis58 - 2015-08-20 7:07 PM
Damon, I agree with you too - if there were IDENTICAL Ovations side by side, one made over seas, and one made here, the only difference being $100 price difference higher for the USA made one. I would pay the $100 extra for the Made in America, because I know John Budny, and the other Folks there in CT, and they are trying to feed their Families here. I could justify the extra by keeping American workers working.
My apologies, I did not mean for this to sound so self-righteous, I am just very unhappy at this time with how jobs are being lost to cheaper foreign labor, and that our Government is not taking care of our own people first. I will always respect each individual's right to do, or buy what they feel is best. 
Edited by Nancy 2015-08-20 9:29 PM
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | I Like It!
Two of my earliest "Ovation" guitars were Celebrity CC57's.
They both said "Celebrity" on the headstock and they were both Great guitars.
Passive volume and tone knobs, no battery needed.
I also had a psuedo-Elite CC257 (I think) that said "Celebrity" on the headstock.
I have never owned an Applause, but I played a really Nice one at "Trade-Up Music" on NE Alberta.
Lumpy headstock, Aluminum Fretboard... And they wanted more for it than a nearby Celebrity!
But this thing was Pristine with a Barnburst finish, and no paint wear on the fingerboard.
But yeah... They need different labels.
Are y'all listening"
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Location: Tennessee | naellis58 - 2015-08-20 5:07 PM - if there were IDENTICAL Ovations side by side, one made over seas, and one made here, the only difference being $100 price difference higher for the USA made one. I would pay the $100 extra for the Made in America, because I know John Budny, and the other Folks there in CT, and they are trying to feed their Families here. I could justify the extra by keeping American workers working. Yes, absolutely. I wish the price difference was $100. But in reality, the difference is way more than a hundred bucks. Are people willing to dig for $1500? That's what the difference was when Ovation moved the Custom Legend line to Korea vs. the USA model they made. They were supposed to be identical, but they weren't really. |
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Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | Well, I, too, am solidly in the USA camp. I have never owned an overseas Ovation and the last five or six I've purchased new were all customs or very limited runs from the old factory through Al. The overseas models I have played were at least 20 years old and I was not overly impressed. However, in light of the improvement in quality that many companies have made in their overseas products over the past five years or so (I previously mentioned automobiles but there are other industries as well), I would be willing to at least try an overseas Ovation model with an open mind. However, as long as we (might again) have high-end custom model availability, it is doubtful that I would consider something less. Therefore, I am not the target consumer for entry level Ovations. |
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Location: Suisun City, Ca | stonebobbo - 2015-08-20 2:54 PM darkbarguitar - 2015-08-20 10:45 AM Think about this.... China owns most of our debt. Don't fall for the political hysteria and misinformation. China owns less than 7% of the US National debt. Japan actually holds more of our debt than China. Was getting ready to post this. Most of our debt is to...ourselves |
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Location: Flahdaw | Although I was incorrect, it is hardly "misinformation". Japan just barely eeked out China in the last few months by a few million after China dominated for 6 years. I guess I should have said foreign owners of US debt, cos YES...we own the vast majority of our debt (but I sorta trust us).
The point is that even at 7%, IF China wanted to call in that debt (which probably wouldn't happen), they could collapse our economy. The threat is enough that we allow them to steal our copywrites, hack our government computer systems, sell us tainted goods, spy on us, etc etc etc, with NO repercussions, due to the mere threat that they could hurt us economically.
What this has to do with anything is anyone's guess... |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | As this drifts waaay off topic, I will point out...
What are they gonna do? Come repossess our country?
They make most of their money from exports, and mostly exporting to US.
So it isn't like China is gonna foreclose on us.
You want something to worry about...
China is going over to Africa and gaining control over the resources there.
One more thing... Since EVERY country is in debt, who do we owe that money to... really?
Banks and Wall Street and the World Bank manufacture debt and destroy countries and economies.
Greece was doing just fine and was a very wealthy country until they joined the Euro Zone.
USA was very wealthy until we gave free rein to the speculators and hedge fund thieves.
Y'all realize that the US Government pays interest on the Paper Money that the Fed prints, right?
Edited by Old Man Arthur 2015-08-21 4:31 PM
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Location: sitting at my computer | arthurseery - So it isn't like China is gonna foreclose on us. In this wacky world who knows, sooo just in case... Learn Chinese: Lesson #1 - Saying Hello 
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Location: Jet City | Anyway... Regardless of who's gonna take us over or where a guitar is built, I think the original point was what do you think of this look? I think it looks wrong. It would look better with the traditional style eppies. I also don't know why you would put a restricting laminate on a deep bowl. I understand it more on something you'll only use to plug in, like an SSB. 
Edited by Damon67 2015-08-21 5:02 PM
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Location: Flahdaw | arthurseery - 2015-08-21 5:28 PM
As this drifts waaay off topic, I will point out...
What are they gonna do? Come repossess our country?
They make most of their money from exports, and mostly exporting to US.
So it isn't like China is gonna foreclose on us.
You want something to worry about...
China is going over to Africa and gaining control over the resources there.
One more thing... Since EVERY country is in debt, who do we owe that money to... really?
Banks and Wall Street and the World Bank manufacture debt and destroy countries and economies.
Greece was doing just fine and was a very wealthy country until they joined the Euro Zone.
USA was very wealthy until we gave free rein to the speculators and hedge fund thieves.
Y'all realize that the US Government pays interest on the Paper Money that the Fed prints, right?
You're right. Once sleazy, evil, repugnant people discovered they could make money off ANY endeavor, including the USA's own demise, nothing could stop them. Short term gain won out over morals and ethics... |
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Location: Jet City | maybe it just needs a red blanket |
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Location: Texas | Learn Chinese: Lesson #1 - Saying Hello I always thought it was Herwo Damon, agree. The Epi's certainly look plain, cheaper, less exquisite, than what we are use to. If the soundboard is laminate...it really doesnt matter what it looks like. |
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Location: Frozen Tundra of Minnesota | damon67 - 2015-08-21 5:07 PM
maybe it just needs a red blanket
Definetly! ANY guitar looks spectacular on that blanket and your fine photography!
I do like the color, even though I am usually not into the bursts. The depth perception and figuring of the wood with that color gradiation is really gorgeous, and you can't go wrong with the abalone surround inlay!
I don't mind the single color eppy's, but I am not certain that the color that was used, was the right one to use with the color of the face. Since we are just talking about the visual appeal vs technical details and playing...
(I still believe that a guitar can be visual Art, and be built with the most advanced technology available for exceptional sound. Which has always been a standard with Ovation/Adamas! A blending of Art and Technology!) |
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Location: Denmark | damon67 - 2015-08-21 5:07 PM
maybe it just needs a red blanket :-) The guitar, yes, I believe the thead itself already has a red blanket or two. Getting back to the photo, I personally like the more traditional exotic wood ornaments around the epaulettes better. Frankly it seems the these ornaments are relatively rough cut. And in my eyes the finish laquer looks kind of thick. I like the "traditionally" sized pickup. According to my taste the epaulette ornaments seem not to be flush with the top.
Edited by tpa 2015-08-21 6:09 PM
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Location: sitting at my computer | damon67 - maybe it just needs a red blanket Been a winning technique so far!  fwiw... Haven't been a fan of lamy tops on acoustics. Like inlaid eppies, but much prefer multi-piece design (at least 3-pieces). They're supposed to resemble dried grape leaves right? Otherwise might as well create a whole different design. imho Loong ago I used to admire the mop and abalone inlaid bindings, they were only used on the upper-tier Os, but nowadays they've become so commonplace on "entry-level" models that, well, in my mind they now have a lower-end guitar connotation. ymmv If that fingerboard and bridge are ebony, I like! |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | damon67 - 2015-08-21 3:01 PM
Anyway... Regardless of who's gonna take us over or where a guitar is built, I think the original point was what do you think of this look?
I actually like this look. Like a couple of others, bursts aren't normally something I like, but something about the depth on the this one as my interest.
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Location: Jet City | I like the burst finish, just not the eppie color with it |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Nothing says "we're back" like Baby food colored epi's. Nice. Bet it sounds just like it looks. CLICK. |
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leaked photo
