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Location: Birmingham, AL | Took off the clamping tonight, put on the tuning machines, tuned up to standard and so far she's held up. Now I can breathe....Going to let it set up tuned to pitch for a few days and we'll see....
OK, Dan, here's the info you wanted. The top is definitely tapered. At the neck it is about .180" and at the tail block about .109"
Could you please send the link to the person who made your logos? I'm interested in the Ovation logo only. I am still on the fence about adding the "Deluxe" back to the headstock.
Thanks
Paul |
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Location: Pueblo West, CO | Kewl!
Thanks for the info. Two questions I still have about the tapered top, which I'm not sure who can answer is, when did the they stop tapering the thickness of the tops and did the K1111 Reissue have a tapered top.
I made the logos. I used Adobe Illustrator. What file format are you interested in? |
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Location: Pueblo West, CO | I put the PDF file I'm planning to use online. Here's the link to it. OvationBalladeerLogo.pdf |
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Location: Birmingham, AL | Thanks for the PDF. Just curious what decal material did you use to make the logo for your Balladeer?
Everything is holding up on the repairs so hopefully in the next week or so I can start on the headstock refinish, binding install, and complete the crack repair.
BTW I bought a 1970 Ovation catalog a couple of days ago and it states the tops are tapered. Thought you'd like to know that. |
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Location: Pueblo West, CO | I haven't made the logo just yet. I've been pretty busy lately. Now that I've cleared the decks, so to speak, I'm able to get back to work on it.
I bought the 'Toner Transfer Paper' from DecalPro, but it's really just a laser printer water-transfer decal paper. I also bought the satin gold foil and clear mylar carrier foil from DecalPro.
The gold foil is the same as Deco Foil and others available from craft stores, such as Michael's. These foils are heat-activated and stick to laser toner. Usually, they're used to add foil to an image printed on paper by laying the foil onto the image and running it through a laminator. If you search YouTube you can see a ton of videos of people using Deco foil.
DecalPro developed a technique to use the decal paper and fabric pattern glue to make 'rub-down' decals.
Yes, thanks for the info. I wonder when they stopped tapering the tops? |
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Location: Birmingham, AL | Don't know why they quit. My guess is labor costs. The newer tops still cracked below the bridge so top thickness apparently didn't matter. I do know that the tapered top ones sound bigger and fuller that the later ones.
I found someone who would make the logos but they are pretty expensive. I went ahead and ordered one just to save time at least for this one.
I've finished the gluing the binding now later I'll clean the glue off of the crack repair and start on the headstock.
Edited by clrules 2015-08-07 8:18 AM
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Location: Pueblo West, CO | Looking good.
I found out they never stopped tapering the top wood, or at least they were tapered up to the time fender took over. They used pretty much the same technique I'm going to use for Jay's guitar --top wood sitting in a tapered platter that's run through a thickness sander.
I checked the top on my 1978 1617 and it's tapered. The standard taper was .140" at the top down to .100" at the bottom. The more or less standard thickness of most guitar tops is .100". I had the entire top of my 1619 sanded down to .094" which is about as thin as you'd want to take a steel-string guitar. I've got extra light strings on it to keep the bellying under control.
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Location: Canada | DanSavage - 2015-08-07 8:19 AM Looking good. I found out they never stopped tapering the top wood, or at least they were tapered up to the time fender took over. Interesting, can you elaborate if that included ALL wood topped O's or just some specific models (which)?
Edited by d'ovation 2015-08-07 10:23 AM
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Location: Pueblo West, CO | As near as I can tell, all wood-topped Os. I got this info from Beal, so if he wants to chime in, he can. The 1960s Balladeers were tapered, as is my 1978 Legend.
All the top wood needs to be thickness sanded, anyway. The only difference for Ovation was to place the wood onto the tapered platter, which is similar to the one I built, then run it through the thickness sander which sanded a taper into the top wood.
When thickness sanding, the wood needs to be run through the sander a few times to get it down to the desired thickness as the sander is usually set up to take off a few thousandths at a time. This allows you to 'sneak' up to the desired thickness without overshooting it and getting the wood too thin.
When I've done my wood, we run it through the sander, then I use a digital caliper to check the thickness in several spots. We repeat the process until it's down to the thickness I want. This will be the same process for the tapered platter except that instead of making sure it's the same thickness all the way through, it'll be 1/32" thinner at the bottom than the top. We'll put some pencil marks along the length of the face of the top wood so we can see when the taper is uniform.
In the case of the factory, they were shooting for .140"/.100". I measured my Legend top and it's thinner than this, about .122"/.110" (from memory) so it's got less of a taper than what is spec, but it's still definitely tapered. As I say, thickness sanding is an iterative process, so it's a reasonable assumption that in a production environment, no two tops would be exactly the same thickness.
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Location: Birmingham, AL | Done!
It turned out way better than I thought it would. Thanks to Dan for all the help and insight.
Now for takeaways and lessons learned:
Used the HHG for neck repair. Very easy to use all the hype about difficulty is way overblown.
Finished the headstock with ReRanch Clear Satin. I wanted to use the gloss but the repair was just too obvious to see with gloss and kinda like the satin look. The logo is a waterslide decal. I had the logo made from the pattern that Dan is using.
Tortoise binding was from LMII and worked out well the .060 thickness was just right didn't have to scrape much of it off to level it with the installed purfling. The used tuning machines and strap pins I had in my supplies and think it adds a nice vintage look to the guitar.
Finish repair is almost impossible. All of the crack repairs that had finish damage didn't have much luck with them as well as the binding repair. The shiny finish on the bowl overlapped the original binding and even after scoring the area it still caused chipping where the bowl met the binding when the binding was removed. I haven't found anything that will fill in the chipping so I could at least try to touch up that area.
I did slightly shape the edges of the bracing to give it a more graceful look and think it added a slight increase to the bass response but hasn't caused any significant top deflection behind the bridge.
I still need to do some fret work but it plays quite nicely like it is. I did find there is a significant neck profile difference between the Balladeer and this Deluxe being the Balladeer is a great deal chunkier and the Deluxe has the more slimmer current neck perofile. They are both from 1968 suppose this was intentional?
I just might try this again if I can find another repairable one down the road at the right price. |
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Location: SoCal | Beautiful! That's an elegance to the early Ovations that has rarely been matched. From one troll to another, you done good....
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Location: sitting at my computer | Kudos! Ya fixed (saved) it!  Thanks for sharing the journey. You, Dan, and all the other daring DIYers help keep us BFLG neophytes educated, entertained and inspired.  |
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Location: Birmingham, AL | Thank you for all the comments, and, moody p.i. I hope to get another one that you can troll all over.
My Martin D-18 has the tortoise binding on it I'm a big fan of that type. I bought the ivoroid also but the tortoise won out this time.
Edited by clrules 2015-08-22 4:09 PM
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Location: Pueblo West, CO | Nice job, Paul.
It's a great feeling to be able to play a guitar that you fixed yourself, isn't it?
Yes, you're right. Once you've used HHG, the intimidation goes away. Personally, for me, after having used Old Brown Glue a few times I don't really see myself going back to using granulated HHG. HHG is pretty easy to use, but OBG is easier and achieves the same results due to the longer open time.
For the finish cracks on the top wood, you can use thin CA or medium CA applied in layers. You would use a scraper, a single-edge razor blade or even a new Xacto chisel to level the repair with the surrounding area. Then once the crack is completely filled, you would use progressively finer grades of sandpaper, starting with somehthing like 600-grit and work your way up to 1000- or 1500-grit. Then, finally polish it back to a high-gloss using polishing compund.
Or, you could just play it and enjoy your handiwork. :D
Anyway, like I say, great job! |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Looks Nice.
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Location: SoCal | How's it sound? |
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Location: Pueblo West, CO | immoody - 2015-08-22 3:20 PM
How's it sound?
Yeah! I think you (clrules) need to come out to Trabuco Canyon with the Guitar Gang and have Paul (Moody) play it and have me videotape it so we can all listen to how it sounds!
Edited by DanSavage 2015-08-22 10:06 PM
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Location: Birmingham, AL | immoody - 2015-08-22 5:20 PM
How's it sound?
Actually it sounds very O like but with a lot of presence, balance and clarity. It's loud also. You dont have to drive it very hard at all to get a great sound out of it. Now that we know the tops are still tapered it must be the bowl that makes these older models sound so different than the later ones.
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Location: Birmingham, AL | DanSavage - 2015-08-22 10:05 PM
immoody - 2015-08-22 3:20 PM
How's it sound?
Yeah! I think you (clrules ) need to come out to Trabuco Canyon with the Guitar Gang and have Paul (Moody ) play it and have me videotape it so we can all listen to how it sounds!
Good idea! As long as I don't have to get on camera that'll work.
Edited by clrules 2015-08-23 5:39 AM
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Location: Pueblo West, CO | clrules - 2015-08-23 3:36 AM
Actually it sounds very O like but with a lot of presence, balance and clarity. It's loud also. You dont have to drive it very hard at all to get a great sound out of it. Now that we know the tops are still tapered it must be the bowl that makes these older models sound so different than the later ones.
IMO, it's the X-brace pattern. When I got it from him, I noticed how much Jay's 1967 Balladeer sounded like my X-brace 1619 CL. |
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Location: Birmingham, AL | DanSavage - 2015-08-23 7:31 AM
clrules - 2015-08-23 3:36 AM
Actually it sounds very O like but with a lot of presence, balance and clarity. It's loud also. You dont have to drive it very hard at all to get a great sound out of it. Now that we know the tops are still tapered it must be the bowl that makes these older models sound so different than the later ones.
IMO, it's the X-brace pattern. When I got it from him, I noticed how much Jay's 1967 Balladeer sounded like my X-brace 1619 CL.
Sometimes you just don't need to mess with things that work |
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Location: Pueblo West, CO | Yep. As I like to say, 'if it works, don't fix it.' |
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Location: Frozen Tundra of Minnesota | SOBeach - 2015-08-22 12:44 PM
Kudos! Ya fixed (saved) it! Thanks for sharing the journey. You, Dan, and all the other daring DIYers help keep us BFLG neophytes educated, entertained and inspired.
+10!!!
Thank You for sharing, I learn so much, and enjoy going along on the journey!!!
Edited by Nancy 2015-08-25 7:21 PM
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Location: Birmingham, AL | Thanks for all the comments! It's still holding up and still sounds great. I can't wait for Dan to finish his project.
BTW, Nancy, are you still accepting pictures for the '16 calendar? I may have to send you some of my Ovation stuff this weekend.
Edited by clrules 2015-08-26 10:18 PM
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Location: Frozen Tundra of Minnesota | clrules - 2015-08-26 10:11 PM
Thanks for all the comments! It's still holding up and still sounds great. I can't wait for Dan to finish his project.
BTW, Nancy, are you still accepting pictures for the '16 calendar? I may have to send you some of my Ovation stuff this weekend.
Oh No, I don't do the Calendar, that is Patch! I think he is still accepting pictures, and this beauty certainly deserves to be in it!!!! You should PM him, and see where to send the pictures!!! |
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Balladeer Deluxe Project
