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August 2003
Posts: 2246
Location: Yucaipa, California | CLIFF,
'cause I DID play a banjo. Once. I knew there was a deep down streak of integrity in you! :D ;) :D |
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Joined:
February 2004
Posts: 1634
Location: Warren,Pa. | A few years ago my wife and I found ourselves at Skylands lodge on Skyline Drive in Va. Saw a promo shot of Michael Geddes, a regional favorite who was playing there that night. In the picture he was playing a Cust. Baladeer. When he showed up to play, however, he had a Taylor 810. After the music I went up to him and asked why he had switched. He liked the question...pensive smile on his face for a moment. Then he said "I guess I just wanted to hold onto something made of wood again." While I am a hopeless Ovation geek, every now and again I feel what he meant. John <>{ |
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Joined:
November 2003
Posts: 11039
Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | Originally posted by cliff:
Then we're even, 'cause I DID play a banjo. Once. Did it need a Tetnus shot afterward?
I mean - you...
...Did you need a Tetnus shot? |
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Joined:
October 2004
Posts: 124
| artist relation is the weakest link. even takamine has done a better job. imagine what would happen if eric clapton, dave matthews, paul simon, doyle dykes, leo kottke play ovation in public ... |
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Joined:
May 2002
Posts: 3005
Location: Las Cruces, NM | Mr. Adamas
I think I have seen pictures or TV shots of every one of those artists playing Ovations at one time or another. Many stars have their Ovation tucked away somewhere for the time they have to do an acoustic set and they need something that WORKS. "Acoustic" meaning plugged in but not solid body with humbuckers. |
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Joined:
October 2004
Posts: 124
| remember the song "those were the days my friend,
we thought they'd never end .... " ?
yeah, lots of world class stars played ovation 20 years ago. what about today? the most visible one is kaki king. she's good, but we need world class players. |
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Joined:
June 2002
Posts: 6202
Location: Phoenix AZ | Here's an interesting twist: "Back in the day", when there were plenty of artists playing Ovations, like Croce, Clapton, Campbell, Jeff Lynn, Greg Lake, Mike Dunford, etc. the guitars were mostly VT braced and sounded pretty much like crap. Today, almost no artists use Ovations but we've got wonderful sounding guitars like 05 Collectors, FD14, U681, etc. to choose from. What would you rather have, tons of stars playing Ovations that suck, or great sounding instruments that only you and few close OFC friends seem to know about. Personally it doesn't bother me one little bit that I own a great sounding guitar and most others just turn their nose up at it. Their loss, not mine. At the end of the day WHO and I out to please ??? And that's exactly the same reason that I would never think negatively about someone buying a Taylor, Martin or other high end guitar. To each his own. |
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Joined:
January 2004
Posts: 1225
Location: Lake Hiawatha, New Jersey | I think that Ovation should keep doing things the way they have been. They make good guitars at prices that most people can afford. It will be tough for them to get the same "respect" as the traditional guitar makers. For instance, Martin has been around since the 1800's and has had a long time to build up their following, and many of the newer companies like Taylor, build guitars that are similar in many ways to Martin, so they appeal to the same customer. I would not like to see Ovation jack up prices, but it might not be a bad idea to drop the foriegn made models.
Eventually, the Ovation tradition will get passed down through generations. Here is a bizarre comparison. I am a huge NJ Devil's and NY met's fan. Over the past 10 years the Devils have won several Stanley Cups and have been a much better team than the NY Rangers, but the Rangers sell out all of their games and the Devils almost never sell out games. It's hard to break people of old habits. Even though one product may be as good or better than another, the older, more familiar one is hard to beat. If Ovation keeps making good instruments, they eventually will get their due. It just takes time.
I also don't believe that artist endorements mean that much to the ordinary player. I've never picked up a guitar because an artist that I like plays one. I happen to like Martins as well as Ovations but I know that I could never afford the same Martin that David Crosby or Neil Young plays. I think that it's far more important to get a great guitar into the hands of regular (not rich) people, and I think Ovation does a great job with that.
There, I've said it and I've counted three...
- o' brother, where art thou. |
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February 2004
Posts: 2487
| I don't know but I keep hearing Rodney Dangerfields voice for all the postings!
Hey........ Respect this!
Randy |
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Joined:
October 2004
Posts: 124
| dave, interesting but inaccurate twist. you dare say ovation sound like crap?! everyone used ovation in 70s-80s mainly because it's best for plugged in. besides, well-known artists started to use non-vt braced ovation/adamas from late 70s to 80s.
today we've got wonderful sounding ovation, but almost no artists use ovation. why?
one thing i agree - it's silly to think negative about someone buying taylor, martin or other hi-end guitars. life is short; it's not wise to stick to just one brand. cwk2 is smart; he has more collings than ovation =) |
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Joined:
July 2003
Posts: 27
Location: Somewhere in cyberspace | This may sound like blasphemy to some of you, but I have NEVER played an Ovation acoustic that I wanted to own. I'm a fan of vintage Ovation solidbodies, but not the bowl-backs. I hate their plastic feel, I hate their unplugged tone, and I can never get comfortable holding a guitar with a bowl like that. I WANT TO like these guitars, but I just don't. No amount of marketing hype or endorsement/product placement will ever make someone like me buy a bowl-back, much less someone who feels the same and isn't predisposed towards the Ovation brand as I am. I understand why someone would love them, but I also understand why they are not more popular. |
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Joined:
November 2003
Posts: 100
Location: Warren, OH | I finally got my first Ovation after looking at them for probably 30 years.
A couple of thoughts:
1) How strong is their dealer network? The Ovation website lists Lentine's Music as a dealer in the Cleveland OH area. However, Lentine's appears to have dropped Ovation. The only Ovation on their web page is a used one.
2) The web page definitely needs to be kept up to date. The Adamas site is a prime example. It's five months after NAMM and just now they're updating the site? Come on, SOMEBODY had to know what was going on in 3rd quarter 2004.
Aside from those sales issues, I feel they have a unique product that appears to be well-supported. But the dealer network and web page are the customer's first experience with Ovation.
How about some clinics? What about some promotional freebies? There has to be some way to get dealer staff informed. Glossy booklets?
However, I don't want to double the cost of my guitar to pay for the advertising. It should theoretically support itself.
How about differentiating the Celebrity and US lines? While looking at guitars, I usually called dealers asking for "high-end Ovations", or I'd get a list of which Celebrity models they had available. I own a 70's Fender Tele Deluxe and a more recent Squier bass. I expect to pay $150-$200 for a Squier, and a lot more for a Fender, but I expect a lot more from the Fender than I do from the Squier. I don't see that distinction in the Ovation line, or at least, I don't think that most sales staff do. The salesman I bought my 2005 Collector's from thought it was a Legend at first. |
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Joined:
February 2004
Posts: 1634
Location: Warren,Pa. | The people on this board know more about Ovations than any Ovation dealer/salesperson I've ever met. Back in '02 I went to my local o dealer (who I know personally) and ordered a Custom Legend 12string and an Adamas SMT 6. He really appreciated the sale, but he had to order them as all he stocked were a few Celebs which were at least 2-3 yrs old w/original strings. I could also tell he couldn't understand WHY I'd spend so much on these guitars. His feeling was they were only marginally better than what he had on the wall. His words were "Why spend so much on guitars that only sound good plugged-in, when you can buy really great sounding guitars for much less." This kind of thinking is OLD SCHOOL ovation thinking...not relevant today, but I don't think most salespeople have a clue! |
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Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7247
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | I've wondered about the "Ovation" vs "Respect" issue, and like anything else, there are traditionalists, and that's not going to change for a long long time.
As far as Ovation marketing more, well, I used to think that maybe they should. But based on the overwhelming response of the LX series and the new Adamas guitars coming out, I think they are just fine. They have folks working their butts off to get the guitars out the door now. It would seem pointless to advertise to create a demand that just can't be met. It's not like you can just hire unskilled labor when there is a burst in production and get rid of them when the burst is over like in so many other plants.
They really seem to be on track now, more than in the recent past, to again build quality affordable guitars. |
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March 2002
Posts: 15682
Location: SoCal | Miles is right. People are buying Ovations by the truckful. If the factory had a surplus, while building great guitars, and couldn't move any of them, then you'd want to market like crazy. But now, with the guitars Ovation is building, they are at capacity (and maybe beyond). It's a good place to be even if famous people aren't endorsing the guitars. Who needs 'em?
I'm self employed and to me, respect and praise comes in that little phrase "Pay to the order of...".
"If you build it, they will come". They're coming. |
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Joined:
June 2002
Posts: 6202
Location: Phoenix AZ | IMHO, Ovation is sitting on a hot product: LX guitars that are good sounding acoustics and bulletproof stage performers. That they should do is:
1) Market like crazy.
2) Start building them off-shore. There is no reason you can't build nice guitars with 5 piece necks, scalloped bracing, OP-Pro electronics etc. in a high volume factory in the far east.
Ovations import products have a poor reputation only because Ovation choose to allocate the production of the worst instruments to off shore. If they had moved Legend production to Korea and kept SS Celebs in CT, we'd all be clamoring for the imports.
Dave |
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September 2003
Posts: 9301
Location: south east Michigan | Our local non-corporate music store as hosted both Martin and Gibson reps for two or three day events in the store. Both seemed to attract attention. |
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December 2001
Posts: 7247
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Standingovation, that's in my opinion what got Ovation into trouble the first time 'round, e.g. flooding the market with mass produced guitars. There is too much handwork in these guitars to send them overseas and make any money. The main reason you send things overseas, is to mass produce cheaper. Hand built/assembled guitars from Korea would probably cost just as much, if not more than Made in USA models here. I think some of the Celebs are fine guitars actually. A little inconsistant in build, like anything mass produced that's made at least partially out of something natural (wood) but many are great.
But more importantly.... why. It wouldn't change the bottom line, it would just make more guitars, and even if there is the slightest risk of a quality issue, it's not worth it. Nope I think they have a great balance at this time. Demand is just a wee bit higher than production. You just can't beat that. |
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October 2004
Posts: 124
| dave, you need some body guards during factory tour. building more guitars like LX offshore means more job loss. someone would kill you =)
actually the new celeb are much better than the old ones. you are correct that the factory wanted to make lower quality guitar offshore. it's corp decision. if they wanted to, they can certainly make high quality guitar overseas. would you like to see a $700 adamas u681 with perfect qc?
how's ovation doing? are they selling more guitars than they wanted to? are they selling more overseas than the US? making so much $ that they don't care to do marketing in the US? |
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March 2002
Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | You also have to look at it from the standpoint of the absolute "EndUser". The Factory is working frantically to fulfill LX orders (and for the most part, are in a "backorder" situation) for their customers. A very good position to be in. But, THEIR customer are the DEALERS. This isn't neccesarily an indication that the guitars are flying off the shelves. The dealers' orders could be the result of post-NAMM shopping or adept AccountExecs making calls. The LX's have been around for what . . . 2 . . 3 . . NAMM's and one or two Frankfurt Show's? I'd think that's enough to sustain a goodly degree of continual initial interest. Does anybody know how much of this production is going towards restock and/or repeat orders? For all we know, there could be a number of dealers that've bought these up over the past year and are sitting on 'em.
Getting 'em out the Factory door is one thing.
Instilling an interest in the end-user to seek them out and ultimately BUY 'em is another.
The Marketing aspect of things could be better.
Especially the webpage.
The Adamas page is . . . "okay".
I'm not overtly thrilled about the look/content, but at least it's (somewhat) more up-to-date.
If the GuitarCenterPedestrians aren't walking in LOOKING for these things (and walking OUT with 'em), things are likely to "back up" quicker than a hungry goose eating a foam rubber mattress . . . |
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May 2003
Posts: 4389
Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | As they say Cliff, some people like picasso, others don't. Me, I like picasso, especially his cubist stage which the Adamas website seems to be evoking. I hope this means they'll get the Adamas into the mitts of some latin players. As for the webpage content, they should have a requirement like guitar player magazine that anyone who writes or edits for them should play an Adamas? So therefore, I'd like them to give or at least provide at cost an adamas to all the people who work on the website so they know what they're writing about ... wouldn't take much to tweak it so that it's more than OK. And they really should have a sound sample ... hey wait we've been thru this before ... |
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Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | Yeah, I read that too, and I appreciate Picasso as well.
However, that has nothing t'do with my (personal) feelings for the "look" . . . |
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February 2005
Posts: 11840
Location: closely held secret | And I happen to like having at least one thing that still says "Made in USA" in my house. |
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June 2002
Posts: 6202
Location: Phoenix AZ | I knew this guy in the navy who had "Made In The USA", tattooed right on ... oh never mind. Dave |
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Joined:
April 2003
Posts: 2503
Location: Fayetteville, NC | I wish Ovation would go back to advertising in the trade publications. There was a day when nomatter what guitar publication you picked up Ovation was in there. Sometimes two or three times. Guitar Player, Guitar World, Acoustic Guitar.It seemed like they were everywhere in print. Now I notice them only on occasion and I haven't seen them in guitar player in at least 3 maybe 4 issues. I just think advertising is a great idea period. It never hurts to let your print ad seep into the mind of magazine reader. |
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how can ovation get more respect?
