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Posts: 217
Location: Snåsa, Norway | IMHO standard notation is a good way to visualise music, by giving both rythm and pitch from the sheet. Tab gives more info where to find the notes on the fretboard, but less about the actual piece of music. Chord charts give even less detailed info, and are still good enough for many purposes. Reading music is useful, but not crucial for being a good player. Knowing the instrument well, having well trained musical ear and knowledge of music is the most important skills. Learning the fundamentals of sight reading should not be to difficult for anybody, though? |
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December 2001
Posts: 7247
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | I think Al DiMeola (and others) hit the nail on the head. I (like many here I think) consider ourselves "guitarists" first and foremost, musicians second. When I think of someone who is both, I think Frank Zappa. Lots of others, but he comes to mind first. A master of the guitar, a master of written music, and a master of the Theory behind both.
I still fail to see where knowing scales and increments on an instrument, including knowing each of the notes, has anything to do with the ability to write it down or read it in NOTE form... unless of course that's what you want to do. For guitar, tab makes more sense. I think for a piano or keys, music makes more sense. For me, I wish I knew theory better. |
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Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | I miss ol' Frank. Even if he always played Caam-middee Music! |
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December 2004
Posts: 4394
Location: East Tennessee | I can't read music but I use tab sheets a lot.
As Miles and others have said "Knowing some theory would help when figuring out what an "F6add9" means without having to look at a chord chart. |
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Posts: 1900
| I compare this topic to pianists. There are basically 2 types. One type can read and play any score but can't play by ear. The other type can play anything by ear but can't read the score. I only knew one guy in college who could do both. And, as it turns out, he was a jazz pianist..go figure.. |
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Posts: 5576
Location: big island | i can't read music or tablature. probably could if i gave it the effort. i despised school and only did just enough to pass each grade. i hunt and peck when i type cuz i couldn't stand typing lessons. i play music professionally (vocals, guitar and ukulele) and have sang in many community and church choirs but still couldn't tell you one note from the next. it's all in the heart, the tapping foot and the musically inclined fingers. |
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Posts: 122
Location: Tucson, AZ | Originally posted by Steve:
I compare this topic to pianists. There are basically 2 types. One type can read and play any score but can't play by ear. The other type can play anything by ear but can't read the score. I only knew one guy in college who could do both. And, as it turns out, he was a jazz pianist..go figure.. ...jazz was one of the major reasons for my educational odyssey from 'player' into 'musician' because I wanted to know WHY as well as HOW!
...just another wannabe chordal jazz player. |
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Posts: 1126
Location: Omaha, NE | I think there are a lot of different levels to "reading music".
- Some guys can look at a written piece, and after a bunch of trial and error, play what's written.
- Some guys can look at a written piece and play it pretty much correct the first time through.
- Some guys can look at a written piece and 'hear' it in their mind without ever playing it.
Of course, 'written piece' can mean standard notation, Nashville notation, figured bass, tab, whatever.
I was in band from fifth grade through high school. That really helped bake in a knowledge of standard notation.
When it comes to reading, I am reasonably good with tab (depending on how technical a piece is, I might be able to sight-play it, or I might need a little while to get it down, or I might need a year...). I am halfway decent with standard notation: I can plink out tunes on a piano, I can read notation and more or less get an idea what the song sounds like, I can pretty effortlessly process the time information in standard notation. I can pretty much sight-play something in Nashville notation. In fact, I just got back from playing at a first communion service at my church. One of the pieces I had never heard before and sight-played after I listened to the first couple of bars to get the idea.
But to amplify on the point made earlier, being able to read music doesn't make you a musician any more than being able to read text out loud makes you an actor. There is obviously a ton more to it than that.
I was discussing this with the bass player in my band. He was a studio player for a major record company in LA for 10 years. He described a process where you would show up, be handed a sheet, given a few minutes to sort it out, then the producer comes on the intercom and says something like "come on guys, studio time is $2000 an hour. Lets get this done now" and you would be expected to put down a take right then. That is a level of craft that most of us will never achieve, but its also a unique and isolated thing. Its not like the guys that can do that are automatically good entertainers. They are just good studio players.
Back to the original question, I think a player who is interested in expanding his skills would be better advised to practice some serious ear training before bothering with learning notation. I think one of the most effective ways of improving musical ability is to be able to "echo" a simple lick: You hear something, and immediately play it back. Correctly. Without any 'fishing' for notes. Once you can do that, you can play anything. |
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March 2007
Posts: 302
Location: Buffalo,NY | I can't read Music and know very little theory. I've decided to learn a little bit of theory to help me understand how to play a little better. I have a son who studies at a Music Conservatory and theory is very important to him . It's not that important to me because I'm not a professional musician.
I could have this wrong but I think it was Chet Atkins who was asked:" do you know how to read music?" and his response was : " Not enough that I let it interfere with my playing."
So I'm trying to do the same thing.
Regards,
Tom |
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December 2004
Posts: 2150
Location: Orlando, FL | I can sight read music well enough to take a fiddle tune and play it on guitar. But I prefer tabs with standard notation above so I can refer to the tab for fingering and the notes for timing. |
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January 2006
Posts: 1487
Location: Michigan | Lanaki,
I have a question for you??? You recently shared a fantastic song that you did and put it on You-Tube .
Did you write the guitar parts down as you were going or is this something that you just kept going in your head?
If you didnt write out the song on paper,,,
Do you ever play it the same way twice or do you just play it the way you feel it at that peticular time you are playing it???
By the way that is a coooool song . GWB |
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January 2004
Posts: 627
Location: Cherry Hill, NJ | Most guitar players are not sight reading musicians. I myself thought I played by ear, until I played with a formally trained keyboard and flute player. They told me I play by feel, which kinda makes sense. I can read music, but struggle with it, I use the chord chart method. After about 15 years of playing guitar, I did take music and chord theory classes. It helped me expand my music, and it became much easier to figure out songs by "feel". |
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Posts: 5576
Location: big island | GWB,
i would not know how to write the music down. i don't think i have ever played the song exactly the same way twice and nobody would know the difference unless it was recorded or someone studied that video to play the song themselves and then heard me play it again. it would not vary much though.
after playing for nearly 40 years, i can listen to most songs and hear the chord progression in my head and then play them on the guitar without ever seeing the chord chart. i have been mainly a rhythm player, and a very good one at that :cool: all these years and only started doing leads within the past two years out of necessity. |
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Posts: 627
Location: Cherry Hill, NJ | Lanaki
That was wonderful, I love your playing and style. It's really so original. By the way I always felt a good rythm guitar player is hard to find. Great stuff. |
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Location: big island | thank you, tommy! |
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Posts: 5881
Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | I'm pretty much with Designzilla. I can read music from all my years in a professional symphony chorus, but primarily use the notes for timing when playing. In the Praise Band, we have to be able to read music at some level because we do maybe six new songs every week. If I miss a practice or otherwise don't have the music, I just ask the pianist what key it is in and generally pick it up by ear. At times, the chord tabs may include those that I'm not real familiar with so I'll need to look them up (i.e., 9ths, 11ths, 13ths). Although I'm getting much better at figuring them out (theory?), I do better by memorization. Our trumpet (band leader) takes a lot of lead but then will also ask me to take it on an intermediate verse or chorus, and that is all by ear. Yesterday morning, our band leader asked me to play the introduction of a hymn for the benefit of the Congregation just moments before we started. I looked at the notes, recoginized the tune, then played it by ear. I believe that by playing primarily by ear, we develop a sense of feeling for the music and can make it our own, although in doing so, we are not necessarily true to the composer. |
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Location: Athens, GA & Gnashville | I just stick to reading books. |
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March 2002
Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | I started by just learning chords and then appying them to songs right away.
I made a concerted effort to learn how to sight-read when I started to learn how to play the flute, but once I had the embouchure and the fingering "down", I cast that aside and pretty much forgot it . . .
If I'm vaguely familiar with the song, I really just need the chord changes to play it.
This weekend, we rented "WordPlay" which was an IFC documentary about the annual NewYorkTimes CrosswordPuzzle competition held every year up in Stamford.
One of the guys they profiled was a professional Piano Player from NY. This guy's job pretty much entails going to various NY theatres and rehearsal halls, sitting at an upright piano and playing whatEVER music people bring in and plop down in front of him for their audition. A goodly portion of the material is stuff he's NEVER heard before. I admire someone with that type of ability.
The object of the profile was to show the correlation of someone with musical ability and how it relates to quickly solving crossword puzzles (being able to quickly "scan" a page and disseminate multiple information simultaneously). Evidently, the best puzzle-solvers are musicians and those who utilize heavy math skills.
It's an interestiong flick, and worthy of a rainy Sat. afternoon rental. |
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July 2002
Posts: 1900
| My mom played the flute. I remember the 'embochure' technique was quite a challenge when I tried it. I've known a few floutists who could play in all 3 registers. Must be a talent I don't have.. |
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March 2002
Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | The low/middle registers have a lot t'do with how you "roll" the instrument to/from you . . . hitting the upper register just has a lot to do with how "forcefully" you play . . . |
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November 2005
Posts: 4833
Location: Campbell River, British Columbia | Flautists and Clarinetists always look like the most unhappy people in the band. But it's just the embrochure.
For some reason, the tympany player always looks happiest. Maybe because he just snuck in from the pub in time for his bit... |
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March 2002
Posts: 15683
Location: SoCal | I do read chord charts in the band at church and I do read tab to learn fingerpicking specific tunes (I'm not good enough with my ears to learn any Jerry Reed tunes any other way). But I always rely on my ears to be the final judge. Guitar music written out over sheet music is usually based on the piano music and is usually a guide rather than the definitive word..... |
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November 2005
Posts: 1126
Location: Omaha, NE | Originally posted by cliff:
This guy's job pretty much entails going to various NY theatres and rehearsal halls, sitting at an upright piano and playing whatEVER music people bring in and plop down in front of him for their audition. A goodly portion of the material is stuff he's NEVER heard before. Its amazing what the human mind is capable of, isn't it?
Even when I was pretty serious about it, I could NEVER sight read anywhere near that well. I used to try out for various jazz bands (playing saxophone) and the audition almost always included a sight reading test: Drop the music in front of you and off you go. I never really did get good at that.
Sight reading music is really no different from sight reading text. Think of how much time and effort we spent in grade school mastering that skill. Put the same amount of effort into sight reading music, and anyone could do it. |
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December 2001
Posts: 10583
Location: NJ | I started out learning the guitar and learning to read. treble clef in first position comes natural to me.
at the height of my sight reading I could read in 4 positions on the fingerboard.
Like a language if you don't use it you lose it and what remains is the treble clef first position for me.
I can sight read tab and nashville numbers but that does not take too much effort even for the hardest anti reader.
wish I kept it up. I would be a more valuable player.
where the hell did I put that sheet with the circle of fifths????? |
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July 2002
Posts: 1900
| I remember that chart, the 'circle of 5ths'. Any diminished 7th chord could be notated four ways.
Other than that it's still kind of confusing.. |
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Can You Read Music Or Not ?
