|
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | I have a long, convoluted story involving my ex, scoliosis, fused vertabrae, steel rods, a car accident, sciatica, physical therapy, chiropractic, flexaril(good sh!t,btw), and three quartizone injections . . .
When all was said and done, three months of acupuncture treatments bought her almost twenty years of pain-free existence when all of the above couldn't. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
October 2006
Posts: 5576
Location: big island | cliff,
my wife also has scoliosis, she was diagnosed at age 14 and they fused a permanent harrington rod to her spine. she suffers intermittently with it now, 31 years later. all that i read about the harrington rod tells me she will probably suffer more as she ages. i am experiencing chronic back pain as of late. i am using my back more these days in the physical labor i do at our church, but also in keeping up with two toddlers. the third reason troubles me the most and that is from playing deep bowled guitars. the 1688 does not seem to bother my back, but playing the 1581 definitely does for some reason, as did the 1537.
my wife's insurance covers chiropractic up to 60% and we cannot afford to pay out of pocket the 40% on some iffy treatment.
i think the insurance covers physio and physical therapy though. maybe i should look at those options. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2005
Posts: 4833
Location: Campbell River, British Columbia | Me, my whole family, and most of the loggers I know have seen chiropractors. Total BS. Except it works for us. Kinda like a very skilled masseuse (Cliff notes: Means no sex) only covered by medicare. (somewhat, in canada, ymmv)
True, once-in-a-lifetime story;
I'm a summer wharfinger (look in up) for the local harbourmaster. A fella hobbles into the office at the head of the wharf, in obvious and extreme pain, followed by his nuclear family.
"Call me a taxi!" he demands.
"you're a taxi!" Duh.
His family convulses. As I'm laughing I apologize, but say I've been waiting my whole life for that opening. He is humourless....and in pain, to be fair.
"How about I get you a cab to my families chiropractor?" I offer.
"I'm a surgeon! None of that voodoo for me! I need drugs!" Or something to that effect...he responds. (Maybe it was Cliff?) |
|
| |
|
Joined:
April 2004
Posts: 13303
Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | saccaguea,
You can stop now. We get it that you don't like (believe in) chiropractors. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
October 2006
Posts: 5576
Location: big island | sacc, this quote from your diatribe shows a different slant than the one you are leaning on:
"In our experience, most medical neurologist believe that CMT is an established cause of ICAD. Conversely, after reviewing over 100 papers on this subject, we concluded that the relationship between ICAD and CMT remains tenuous, and a causal relationship is not supported by the literature. CMT is often categorized in the medical literature alongside frank trauma, such as motor vehicle collisions (MVCs) (Mokri, Piepgras, & Houser. 1988; Lucas. Moulin. Deplanque, Tatu, & Chavot, 1998), which suggests that these authors have the perception that CMT is violent and may be injurious. This notion is in stark contrast to studies that have looked at the safety of cervical CMT (e.g., Hurwitz et al., 1996), that estimated the rate of vertebrobasilar accidents or other complications to be one per one million cervical manipulations. One of the authors of the current paper (ACC) was a panelist on the RAND Corporation study that Hurwitz et al. authored." |
|
| |
|
Joined:
April 2004
Posts: 13303
Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | So you have a better chance of getting pneumonia during a hospital stay....which isn't saying much because way too many old folks get it while in the hospital. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2005
Posts: 4833
Location: Campbell River, British Columbia | But on the other hand, if you were a seal, you'd have a flipper.
If it feels good, do it. If it doesn't, stop.
Dude.
(Show me an incident of a Chiropractor induced paralysis! Like other 'alternative therapies' it works....whatever. If it only works 'cos you believe....well hell! whole religions have been built on THAT!) |
|
| |
|
Joined:
October 2006
Posts: 5576
Location: big island | funny story, phil! made my back twinge from laughing though. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2005
Posts: 4833
Location: Campbell River, British Columbia | Wow. This timeout thing is pretty retroactive. I'm posting while watching the penultimate Gilmour Girls, so some of the posts are commercial-to-commercial start to post.
(Just read that after posting. I am SO gay. But I identify with LUKE, if that counts for anything.)
(Now it's HOUSE and the black guy is quitting! Damn. Last year I got cable and bought my first TV. I used to have a life.)
(You were responding to something else, right? Lanaki?) |
|
| |
|
Joined:
October 2006
Posts: 5576
Location: big island | and what proof are you drinkin' tonight, phil? |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2005
Posts: 4833
Location: Campbell River, British Columbia | Just 12%. But it's out of the tap.....you wouldn't understand.
It's a socialist country, they keeep us free thinkers drunka s we like. AND WE LIKWWRTW#WE IT!
(It's Tuesday dinner night for the club. !4 years. And we're hosting. So we can drink more than normal. Linda wants to type durty words to you all, but only I can fucos. Focus. Oh heck. focus all.)
Here, bend over. I'll adjust your back. Really. Just relax.... |
|
| |
|
Joined:
August 2006
Posts: 2804
Location: ranson,wva | i see my chiropractor twice a month and i live on flexeril @ percocets(all perscribed in my name i might ad) if it wasnt for the drugs stated above i couldnt get out of bed in the mornings(or evenings) jason |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2005
Posts: 11840
Location: closely held secret | Originally posted by Lanaki:
CMT is often categorized in the medical literature alongside frank trauma, such as motor vehicle collisions I went to high school with Frank. He was a pain in the neck.
Fill, I'll bet you Foreman's still there next week. And House scores with Honey. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
April 2007
Posts: 143
Location: Colorado Springs, CO | http://www.cmaj.ca/cgi/content/full/166/6/794
http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/chirostroke.html
http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn1914
Lanaki the bottom line is weather or not you want to take the chance that you won't be damaged by it. If you drive in your car you take a risk you could have a car accident. You could go to a chiropractor and never have a problem. You're wife with a rod in her spine is clearly not someone who should go to a chiropractor. There are many other conditions that people can have and be unaware of which would be very dangerous with chiropractic. If your back were hurting as a result of bone cancer as an example, or if you have spurs in your spinal cord that you are unaware of. If you have a ruptured disk, a chiropractic treatment will certainly not be a good idea. I recommend starting an exercise routine if you are not already doing that. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
July 2002
Posts: 1900
| I'm a little late to this thread, but...
I've used quality chiropractors all my life. They've always helped me, never hurt me. Some were easy, some were agressive. The best are the ones without the 'feel-good' gimmicks. They just use basic safe adjustments and, unless I had an injury, they would seldom suggest coming more than once a month.
(The neck on my guitar has needed adjustment, but that's another story.. :) ) |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 13997
Location: Upper Left USA | Ok, here's the SAST version.
First Chiro visit in 1980 cause I had a really bad headache for the last 7 years. Found out my L5 went to the right, the T in middle went Left and the Axis on top was all didywumpus!
Headache gone, started to actually see out of the left eye and my stomach fluids quit coming up all the time.
Then my HMO quit paying for Chiro...
...coverage renewed! Went to one where they slapped a big vibrator on my back and ran me through the assembly line. I'm looking out the window where the Doc had his corvette and his BMW parked. Small light came on...
Then my Employer has this great set of back injury prevention videos. I learned a lot of "self help" techniques.
Jury Duty. Quack Chiropractor. Very negative feelings.
Now looking forward to a mix of massage, chiro and self induced Yoga like measures to keep me in line.
Drowning is easy, it's the breathing that takes all the effort. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2005
Posts: 4903
Location: Phoenix AZ | My own personal opinion, Chiro's probably can help a few things. But they only exist because of the insurance industry. If everyone had to pay out of pocket for their own medical care, nobody would be spending their hard earned cash on Chiro's.
Dave |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2005
Posts: 11840
Location: closely held secret | While I don't believe the weekly/monthy visits are necessary, I've been helped occasionally by a chiro friend of ours.
Like the time I was cutting firewood with my Husqy - went to start it while standing, the saw went one way, my hips went the other... next thing I new I was laying on my back in deep grass trying to keep a running chainsaw away from my legs... took me an hour to stand up long enough to get to the house.
He's a little too rough for my wife, though. She has a different one she goes to sometimes.
I kid you not, his name is Doctor Roger Popp. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
May 2003
Posts: 4389
Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | We don't you go to an orthopedist? He'll either prescibe physical therapy or surgery. Probably, PT.
Wabbit, same thing happened to my Dad, except it involved a golden retriever, and when he fell he chopped of the fingers of his left hand with the chain saw.
He picked up his fingers, went to the kitchen, wrapped his hand up with a towel, got my Mom and they drove to the hospital. They reattached the fingers, and after about 10 years, he has about 95% use.
Don't ever use a chain saw with a dog or kid around. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
April 2006
Posts: 2491
Location: Copenhagen Denmark | A Good Chiropractor uses X-Ray photo`s...they would Quickly Detect any alien objects..overhere the Gov`ment put up retirement age from 65 to 67 , `cause we " Live Longer" , ....they cut down on medicare...there are Alternative HealingMethods...now the gov`ment can n`t be wrong...Right ?!!.. :confused:
Vic |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2005
Posts: 4903
Location: Phoenix AZ | Chiropractors are like Taylor Guitars.
Some people may love them and swear by them. Others may think they are over hyped useless pieces of crap.
Dave |
|
| |
|
Joined:
April 2004
Posts: 13303
Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | I own a Doyle Dykes signature Taylor.
Excellent guitar. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
April 2007
Posts: 4
Location: Providence, RI | Never thought I would post about chiropractors on a guitar website, but here goes. This is an e-mail I sent to a friend of mine considering going to a chiropractor. This is not meant to offend anyone here, it is simply my option with some supporting evidence. Note: I am not a medical doctor, and do not claim to be, but I do hold a Ph.D. in Biology and have read a bit about chiropractors.
First, if your chiropractor were an actual medical professional they would inform you of the possible negative side effects of treatment. For example before you undergo anesthesia you are informed the chance of death. Or when you get any medical procedure done they tell you chance of death and other possible side effects. Did your chiropractor tell you your percent chance of death from treatment? Did they even tell you there was a chance of death? There is! People have DIED from chiropractic treatment. Chiropractic treatment is associated with stroke. See Spinal manipulative therapy is an independent risk factor for vertebral artery dissection, Smith et al. Neurology. 2003 May 13;60(9):1424-8. This is not a high chance of death. However, neither is chance of death from anesthesia, but you are still informed of this before you undergo the procedure. Why? because a "qualified medical professional" is treating you. Which is not the case when you go to a chiropractor.
Second, I think you should be aware that there is no actual university gives degrees in chiropractic treatment. FSU may open one and they are being highly criticized for it. (note: bringing in a chiropractic program would make the university lots of money and this is why they may open it. The faculty and medical professionals did not want it on ethical grounds. The university did not seek to get the chiropractic program. Rather a Florida Senator who is a chiropractor passed a bill to start one and FSU doesn't want to pass up on the money).
"Some FSU faculty members are upset, too, fearing the school will shatter FSU's academic reputation. The list of critics include FSU's two Nobel laureates - Robert Schreiffer, a physicist, and Harold Walter Kroto, a chemist - and Robert Holton, the chemistry professor who developed the cancer-fighting drug Taxol. In recent weeks, more than 500 faculty members have signed petitions against the chiropractic school, including about 70 in the medical college, said Dr. Raymond Bellamy, an assistant professor who is leading the charge against the proposal. The medical college has more than 100 faculty members. "It should come as no surprise that no major medical institution in this country, public or private, has embraced chiropractic medicine," wrote Dr. Henry Ho, a Winter Park physician and FSU assistant professor, in another e-mail. "If Florida State University were to do so, its fledgling attempt for credibility as a medical institution of stature would be severely jeopardized."" (Source St. Petersburg Times. Note: under most circumstances I do not consider a newspaper a valid source. i.e. when citing facts a newspaper is not a valid source. However, when simply giving quotes a newspaper is a valid source)
Third, statements you have made that you feel better or that it "makes sense" to align your back are what the scientific community calls anecdotal evidence. This is not valid evidence. Just because someone feels better immediately after treatment does not mean that they are healthier. For example the placebo effect will make one feel better if they think they are receiving treatment. Additionally, there are many illegal drugs which make you feel good but are unhealthy for your body.
Finally, although under most circumstances chiropractic treatment is not effective, there are circumstances where spinal manipulative therapy (SMT) is actually effective at treating certain conditions. However, one would be much better off going to a physical therapist for treatment. Someone who has gone to an actual accredited University. And has had to go through rigorous biology, medical, anatomy, etc classes. A chiropractic program is not a real university. The admission standards at these places are almost nonexistent (Doxey TT, Phillips RB. Comparison of entrance requirements for health care professions. Journal of Manipulative and Physiological Therapeutics 20:86-91, 1997).
I have listed a few articles stating that under most cases chiropractic treatment is not effective. Also, note that for a few conditions SMT (spinal manipulative therapy) is effective. However, it would be much better going to a medical professional.
Spinal manipulative therapy is an independent risk factor for vertebral artery dissection, Smith et al. Neurology. 2003 May 13;60(9):1424-8.
Spinal manipulative therapy for low back pain. Annals of Internal Medicine 138:871-881, 2003.
Spinal manipulation in the treatment of episodic tension-type headache: A randomized controlled trial. JAMA 280:1576-1579, 1998.
Treatment of Hypertension with Alternative Therapies (THAT) study: A randomized clinical trial. Journal of Hypertension 20:2063-2068, 2002.
A comparison of active and simulated chiropractic manipulation as adjunctive treatment for childhood asthma. New England Journal of Medicine 339:1013-1020, 1998.
Randomized controlled trial of infantile colic treated with chiropractic spinal manipulation. Archives of Diseases in Childhood 84:138-141, 2001. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2004
Posts: 4413
| Chiropractors are quacks. Did NOTHING for me.
You would achieve a million times more if you went to an Alexander technique practitioner or a Qi Gung Master. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7247
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Also keep in mind with what everyone has said that chiropractics vary from state to state. As example here in Washington, ANY message therapy requires training and a license. For chiropractors, they aren't even supposed to touch you without getting a medical history, and taking xrays.
Like anything else, there are good one, and there are quacks. I search for good ones. Ones that are doctors, and ones that specialize in "Sports Medicine" or physical therapy are usually reliable. Those are ones who if you need to see a traditional doctor will send you to one.
I have dealt with back issues and other joint issues for most of my life. My experience leads me to go to a homeopath or chiropractor first. 99% of the time that's all need. In fact, now that I think about it, the only time I've gone to a doctor in adult life for an actual illness, they couldn't even do anything to make me feel better, but that was a long time ago.
I haven't seen a "real" doctor for more than a physical (like for insurance or diving) for 20+ years. I've only been to non-traditional doctors regarding 3 incidents in that 20+ years. I've only been sick about 6 times in 20+ years.
I don't takes meds, I don't take vitamins, I eat more than I should, and I don't exercise. I've had arthritis for probably 30 years and in pain, pretty much 24/7, but at this point I don't even notice it unless I have a good day and don't feel it.
I figure I got one thing wrong, I know what it is, I deal with it. |
|
| |
OT: Chiropractic: Yay or Nay?
