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OT.FRANK ZAPPA GENIUS OR GARBAGE ???
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| Forums Archive -> The Vault: 2007 | Message format | |
| Jeff |
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Joined: June 2002 Posts: 863 Location: Central Florida | Zappa: A genius who put out a lot of garbage. | ||
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| cliff |
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Joined: March 2002 Posts: 14842 Location: NJ | . . on Sunday and Thursday nights. | ||
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| Tupperware |
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Joined: January 2005 Posts: 4903 Location: Phoenix AZ | Originally posted by alpep: No. I mean vietnam. Eisenhower sent existing troops in to vietnam not calling it a war yet, kennedy was the first to request (and get) from congress war funding for vietnam. huh? you mean bay of pigs? eisenhower got us into vietnam I did a book report in this in 12th grade. I know my stuff. | ||
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| cliff |
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Joined: March 2002 Posts: 14842 Location: NJ | (notice - he doesn't mention the C-minus) | ||
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| alpep |
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Joined: December 2001 Posts: 10583 Location: NJ | sounds like a word semantic game to me. how is this one my name is paul and I ain't with y'all | ||
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| fillhixx |
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Joined: November 2005 Posts: 4833 Location: Campbell River, British Columbia | I'll go with the genius. Lower than Mozart, higher than......hmmm, me! (and who's to say it can't be genius AND garbage at the same time? Eg: Andy Kaufman) | ||
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| bauerhillboy |
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Joined: February 2004 Posts: 1634 Location: Warren,Pa. | These are all just opinions, so... My college music prof. gave us an example of a musical genius setting up radios on a stage all playing different stations, along-side alarm clocks going off at different times. He asked what would make this man's work worthwhile. The answer is...it's not the ONLY thing he can do. IMHO, it's the ONLY thing Zappa did. Maybe not all he COULD do, but all he did. John <>{ | ||
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| lanaki |
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Joined: October 2006 Posts: 5575 Location: big island | youtube has a couple zappa clips when he was on the steve allen show back in the early sixties. zappa is playing the bicycle and gets steve to play on another one. steve allen was quite comical but zappa's feathers didn't get ruffled. here's part one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGPPBwDBJDs part two: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufgn__85q9E | ||
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| guitarwannabee |
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Joined: January 2006 Posts: 1486 Location: Michigan | OH SHIT I am trying to keep an open mind on this thread , but on the Steve Allen Show ( click on Lanaki's last post on this thread)Zappa did not come across to me as a musical genuis that played the bicycle,he came across as the Village Idiot who made some very strange Television entertainment for a TV show.IMHO that was GARBAGE not GENUIS.Maybe he was just way to ahead of his time. I have a very hard time watching the two parts of him on the Steve Allen Show.GWB | ||
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| Jason_S |
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Joined: August 2006 Posts: 2804 Location: ranson,wva | those vids were removed...i just tried t ocheck them out....jason | ||
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| saccaguea |
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Joined: April 2007 Posts: 143 Location: Colorado Springs, CO | Yeah with songs like this one. Billy the mountain Billy the mountain A regular picturesque Postcardy mountain Residing between lovely Rosamond and gorman With his stunning wife ethel A tree, a tree. Billy was a mountain Ethel was a tree growing off of his shoulder Billy was a mountain Billy was a mountain Ethel was a tree growing off of his shoulder Ethel was a tree growing off of his shoulder ( hey, hey, hey! ) Billy had two big Caves for eyes With a cliff for a jaw That would go up or down And whenever it did Hed puff out some dust And hack up a boulder, hack. Hack up a boulder, hack, hack. Hack up a boulder, hack, hack. Hack up a boulder. Now, one day, and I believe it was on tuesday, a man in checkered double-knit suit drove up in large el dorado cadillac leased from bob spreene ( where the freeways meet in downey! ) He laid a huge bulging envelope right at the corner of billy the mountain, that was right where his foot was supposed to be. now billy the mountain, he couldnt believe it: all those postcards h Osed for, for all of those years, and finally, now at last, his royalties! royalties, royalties, royalties! the royalty check is in, honey! ... yes, billy the mountain was rich! yes, His eyeball caves, they widened in amazement... and his jaw, which was a cliff, well it ... it dropped thirty feet! a bunch of dust puffed out ... rocks and boulders hacked up, hack! hack! ... c Ng the lincoln ... I gave him the money He acted real funny He hacked up a rock and It totaled my car Oh do you Know any trucks Might be bound for the valley I dont wanna stand here All night in this bar ( dear lord ) I dont wanna stand here All night in this bar ( no shit ) I dont wanna stand here All night in this bar By two oclock, when bars had already closed down, billy had broken the big news to ethel, ahhhh, and with dust and boulders everywhere, billy, choked with exitement, announced: ethel, we Ing on a vacation!... yes, and they were going on a vacation, oh, and ethel, ethel, ethel, like any little woman, she of course was very excited ... she creaked a little bit, and some old Flew off of her. billy told ethel they were going to... yes, they where going to new york! ethel, were going to... new york! but first they were gonna stop in las vegas... Its off to las vegas to check out the lounges, Pull a few handles and drink a few beers, oh ethel, Ethel, my darling, you know that I love you, Im glad we could have a vacation this year, Oh neat-o, glad we could have a vacation this year. They left that night, crunchin across the mojave desert, their voices echoing thru the canyons of your minds... ethel, wanna get a cuppa cawfee? howard johnsons, ahhh theres a howard jo s! ... wanna eat some clams? ... The first noteworhty piece of real estate they destroyed was edwards air force base. and to this very day, wing-nuts and data reduction clerks alike speak in reverent whispers about that fateful T when test stand number one and the rocket sled itself got lunched, I said lunched, by a famous mountain and his small wooden wife ... Word just in to the kttv news service undeniably links this mountain and his wife to drug abuse and payoffs as part of san joaquin valley smut ring. however, we can assure parents in the s Rn california area that a recent narcotic crackdown in torrence ... hawthorne ... lomita ... westchester ... playa del rey ... santa monica ... tujunga ... sunland ... san fernando ... pacoima . Lmar ... newhall ... canoga park ... palmdale ... glendale ... irwindale ... rolling hills ... granada hills ... shadow hills ... cheviot hills ... will provide the secret evidence the palmdale Jury has needed to seek a criminal indictement and pave the way for stiffer legislation, increased federal aid, and avert a crippling strike of bartenders and veterinarians throughout the inlan Ire ... Within the week, jerry lewis had hosted a telethon ( la la la nice lady ) to raise funds for the injured, injured, and homeless, homeless in glendale, as billy had just l Ed it. and a few miles right outside of town billy caused a oh mine/my(? ) papa in the earths crust, right over the secret underground dumps, right near the jack in the box on glenoaks where t Eep the pools of old poison gas and obsolete germs bombs, just as a freak tornado cruised through ... yes, it was about three oclock in the afternoon when little howard kaplan was sitting on hi Ch ( toto...!) just playing ( come here, toto ...!) and having a nice time with his little accordion, (toto...!) and this weird wind came up, direct from glen Blowing those terrible germs in his direction ... and all this caused by huge mountain (aunty em) somewhere over the rainbow, blue birds fly, sucking up two-thirds of it ( suck, suc Ck) for an ultimetly dispersal over vast stretches of ... watts!!! Now, unless I misunderstood, it was right outside of columbus, ohio when billy received his notice to report for his induction physical. now lemme tell ya, ethel said, now ethel, ethel said she T gonna let him go ... Im not gonna let you go, billy ... thats right, we now have confirmed reports from an informed orange county minister that ethel is still an active communist It is this reporters opinion that she also practices covent witch-craft ... It was about this time that the telephone rang inside of the secret briefcase belonging to one mortal man who might be able to stop all of this senseless destruction and save america herself. an Sorry to disappoint some of you, it was not chief redden. this one man was studebacher hoch, fantastic new super hero of the current economic slump. now, some folks say he looked like zubin meh Ubin mehta); still others say bullshit, honey, it was just another greasy guy who happened to be born next to the frozen beef pies at boneys market...; still others say pshaw/ (? ), and piss on you, jack, hes just a crazy iatlian who drove a red car ... you see, nobody ever really knew for sure because studebacher was sooooo mysterious .... He was so ( he was so, he was so) mysterious He was so ( he was so, he was so) mysterious cuz when a person gets to be such a hero, folks And marvelouse beyond compute You can never really tell about a guy like that Whether hes really a nice person Or if he just smiles a lot Or if he has a son named pinocchio or what. Whether hes really a nice person Or if he has a son named pinocchio or what. Some men say he could fly Some men say he could swim Others say he could sing like neil sedaka, And all the girls in flushing would be amazed of him Two, three amazed of him ... amazed ... Time passed. january, february, march, july, wednesdey, august, irwindale, two-thirty in the afternoon, sunday, monday, funny cars, walnuts, city of industry, big john masamanian ... so when the E ring in the secret briefcase, a strong masculine hand with a dudley do-right wristwatch and flexy braclet grabbed it and answered in a deep, calmly assured voice: so... ah... yeah, yeah Already ... what? ... well, yeah? ... ah-are you kidding? ... youre not kidding ... a mountain ... with a tree growing off of its shoulder? aw, youre fulla shit, man... ah listen, by the way, Re you go on; did you get those white albums I sent ya with the pencil on the front, yeah? yeah, you should move some of those for me ... were having a lot of,...listen, so kiss little jakee on Head... and hows your wifes hemorrhoids? ...ah, thats too bad...listen...so youve got a mountain, with a tree, listen, causing...well, let me write this down... sorta take a few notes here... ...to el segundo, huh? ...causing Untold destruction..( my baby, my baby )...wanted for draft evasion? ... an expense account? ... and per diem, too? ... Some men say he could dance They said he could dance And of course they were right ... Ladies and gentelmen, this is it: the studebacher hoch dancing lesson & cosmic prayer for guidence, featuring aynsley dunbar! ... hit it! ... Twirly, twirly, twirly, twirly, twirly, fillmore ... Hey, right hand from a heart Left hand from a heart Right hand from a heart Left hand from a left shoulder To the heart. fillmore, fillmore ... Nobody can dance like studebacher hoch ... So many rumors have spread about studebacher hoch ... consider this rumor which was published about three weeks ago in rolling stone ( oh, its gotta be true! ) ... studebacher hoch can write th Ds prayer on the head of a pin! (no!) do-do-do do-do-doot doot do-do-do ... ... Im so hip ... beef pies ... he was born next to the beef pies, underneath joni mitchells autographed pict Right beside elliot roberts big bank book, next to the boat where crosby flushed away all his stash and the cops got him in the boat and drove away, to the can where neil young slipped another ... [ frozen ? ? ? pie Frozen ? ? ? pie Frozen ? ? ? pie And that was the main influence on him The influence of a frozen beef pie ] Boldly springing into action he phoned his wife who ran a modeling school, whereupon he... yes, he ran around the back of the broadway at hollywood boulevard and vine to see if he could find him Some big, large, unused cardboard boxes ( no shit! )... after which he hit up the ralphs on sunset for some aunt jemima syrup, some kaiser boiler foil and pair of blunt sissors, yeah! ... yes, N the parking lot of ralphs ... where no prices are lower prices than ralphs... in the parking lot of ralphs, in between a pair of customized trucks where nobody was looking, he cut out some Y, really, really nice wings and he covered them thoroughly with foil ... Then he took those wings and wedged one under each of his powerful arms and sneaked into a telephone booth ..yes,yes!! and then he shut the fucking door! ... and he pulled down his blue denim po An-type trouser pants, and he spread even amounts of aunt jemima maple syrup all over the inside of his legs! ... soon the booth was filling with flies ( help me! help me! help me! ) ... he held The legs of his boxer shorts so they could all get in, and when each and every one of those little cocksucking flies had gone into his pants and they were lapping up all that maple syrup, he be Er and he put his head between his legs and he said in a very clear, impressive, ron-hubbard-type voice: new york... and the booth and everything lifted up, out of parking lot, and i He sky. Studebacher hoch Yeah, yeah, Studebacher hoch Studebacher hoch Studebacher hoch Yeah, yeah, Studebacher hoch Studebacher hoch Hes coating his legs With aunt jemima syrup up and down His shorts will be filled with flies That will be buzzing all around Studebacher hoch is really outa sight Studebacher hoch, he does it every night Studebacher hoch, he treats the flies all right Studebacher hoch Thats why they never bite, hey! Hey please to new york Fly to new york He could be a dog Or a frog Or a lesbian queen (fly to new york) He could be a narc Or a lady marine Or he might play dirty Hes over thirty Getting old ... I dont know His peculiar attire And the flies he requires Keep leading him on cuz ethel is gone They keep leading him on cuz ethel is gone And the mountain shes on And speaking of mountains - - well join studebacher hoch on the edge of billy the mountains mouth .. take it away! ... Ah ... ya, ya, ya, hey-ah, billy, listen ... Ive come to reason with you ... our great country needs you in the armed forces ... your number came up ... ya cant go on running like this f R ... Ah, but ethel just shook her twigs angrily. but studebacher hoch, calm, cool, collected and unperturbed, continued: Ya, well listen ... listen you communist sonofabitch ... you better get your ass down there for your fuckin physical or Ill see to it that you get used for fill dirt in some impending ne Sey marsh reclamation ... and your girlfiend there will wind up disguised as series of brooms, primative ironing boards or a dog house ... get the ( cough, cough) get the picture? Ya, well billy just laughed: Ha, ha, ha. if they think theyre gonna draft me, theyre crazy. Unfortunately, because studebacher hoch was standing on the edge of billy the mountains mouth when the giant mountain laughed ... studebacher hoch lost his footing and fell screaming, two hundr Et into the rubble below ... ( aaahhhhh, oh fuck, Im gonna need a truss ...) Ah listen, that only goes to show you And itl show you once again that A mountain is something you dont wanna fuck with You dont wanna fuck with Dont fuck around Dont fuck around Dont fuck with billy, no And dont fuck with ethel You saw what just happened To the guy with the flies Dont fuck around Dont fuck around Dont fuck around Dont fuck around Dont fuck around Dont fuck around Dont fuck around With biddilly, biddilly Biddilly the mountain Eddie, are you kidding? Eddie, are you kidding? Oh I forgot to mention this is where we take our intermission. We will see you in a few minutes Thank you, well be back. | ||
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| rededdie |
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Joined: January 2006 Posts: 387 Location: Whitecourt, Ab | FZ was my musical hero in the 70's. I enticed many a young damsel with Dinah Moe Hum on 8 track. I even remember my Dad Quoting him..."Watch out where the huskies go, don't eat the yellow snow" | ||
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| guitarwannabee |
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Joined: January 2006 Posts: 1486 Location: Michigan | Holy Crap the You Tube Video of Frank on the Steve Allen Show has mystericly been removed ( But by Who ??? ) Frank is now doing things from the other side. Frank: Lanaki is the one who made me say things about your music being Garbage ,Please do not hold me responsible for the things that Lanaki made me print..Lanaki is the guilty one responsible for this,not me. I am Your biggest fan GWB. Way to go Lanaki now you really pissed Frank off and he is starting to send us some bad Ju-Ju from the dark side.GWB | ||
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| lanaki |
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Joined: October 2006 Posts: 5575 Location: big island | Originally posted by guitarwannabee: frankly speaking, if anyone could, it would be frank.... he is starting to send us some bad Ju-Ju from the dark side.GWB | ||
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| Michael Joseph Kramer |
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Joined: November 2003 Posts: 214 Location: Stratford, Connecticut | Anyone ever see the movie Amadeus? That's where I believe Frank Zappa... as well as a couple of his children.. fit into as far as a catagory goes. Steve Vai wishes to this day he could do what Frank could do musically. He can only aspire. Frank Zappa was a true talent and genuine prodigy. It's that simple. He was just more modern thinking because of the advent in musical technology. A HUGE loss to the musicians in this world. That's my opinion! Thanks and God bless... Michael Joseph Kramer | ||
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| alpep |
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Joined: December 2001 Posts: 10583 Location: NJ | funny till this day some folks call me alphonso as in st alphonso's pancake breakfast. btw they're stealing the TOWELS!!!!!!!!!!!! | ||
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| Jason_S |
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Joined: August 2006 Posts: 2804 Location: ranson,wva | Yes indeed, here we are! At Saint Alfonzo's Pancake Breakfast Where I stole the mar-juh-reen An' widdled on the Bingo Cards in lieu of the latrine I saw a handsome parish lady Make her entrance like a queen Why she was totally chenille And her old man was a Marine As she abused a sausage pattie And said why don't you treat me mean? (Hurt me, hurt me, hurt me, oooooh!) At Saint Alfonzo's Pancake Breakfast (Hah! Good God! Get off the bus!) Where I stole the mar-juh-reen . . . Saint Alfonzo Saint Alfonzo Saint Alfonzo Saint Alfonzo Ooo-ooo-WAH . . . jason | ||
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| fillhixx |
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Joined: November 2005 Posts: 4833 Location: Campbell River, British Columbia | Originally posted by saccaguea: Sacc, you ever read the lyrics to an Italian opera? Yeah with songs like this one. Billy the mountain etc.... Frank wrote very ambitious stuff. There are classical composers who were as demanding of their audience (Niel Young too, when you try to listen to everything.) but delivered the goods overall. | ||
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| Mr. Ovation |
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Joined: December 2001 Posts: 7247 Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Interesting that his lyrics are so often the topic when speaking of FZ, and he really only put lyrics in to sell records. The reason they are so bizarre is that he couldn't get into the whole "love me baby" or whatever else that people mostly write about. At the same time, he realized that people liked to listen to music with lyrics. This is paraphrased from a clip of Zappa in an interview on that VH1 Classic show. I had heard it said before that Zappa used such interesting textures on vocals cause he treated vocals as just other sounds. He'd rather they not be there, but if they had to be, than they needed to fit in. I also got a kick out of a comment by Dweezil on some tunes that I thought sounded "cartoony"... well I guess I got it. They were supposed to sound cartoony. I don't usually get stuff like that, so I was happy hearing that. | ||
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| alpep |
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Joined: December 2001 Posts: 10583 Location: NJ | hey Miles who you think you're jiving with that cosmic debris? | ||
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| Omaha |
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Joined: November 2005 Posts: 1126 Location: Omaha, NE | I always found Zappa far easier to listen to when speaking than when playing. Not that I didn't like his playing...I just thought he was a really interesting person. I remember fondly a panel discussion he participated in regarding music censorship. Of course, he had no patience for that sort of thing. The moderator was going around, introducing the panel of four participants, reading from note cards. When she gets to FZ, she says something like "And we also have with us musician Frank Zappa, who has asked to be introduced as the National Treasurer..." "No, 'A National Treasure'", FZ interrupts. "Um...ok...Frank Zappa, National Treasure", she responds. "But I don't know what that means". "I know", Frank replies. A lot of what you might loosely call 'hippie era, stick it to the man' stuff has not worn well (I recall an interview with John and Yoko on the Mike Douglas show that was just laughable 30 years after the fact). But Zappa's stuff holds. | ||
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| schroeder |
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Joined: November 2004 Posts: 4413 | If you mean genius as in Bach/Mozart/Beethoven, Schubert/Verdi/Wagner, Tchaikovsky/Puccini/Britten, or Armstrong/Ellington/Davis, then Zappa wasn't remotely a genius. If you mean was he way cleverer than The Monkees, The Rolling Stones and The Lovin' Spoonful then yes he was a genius. Just because someone can write orchestrations doesn't make him a genius. Any third year music student can do that. An orchestration isn't a great orchestration. Was he on a level with Gallileo/Newton/Einstein? No. Was he on a level with Fisher/Spassky/Kasparov? No. Was he on a level with Spenser/Shakespeare/Goethe? No. The guy was not a genius. There is a notable tendency in America to call everybody who is remotely above average a genius. I have heard/read it used with Bernstein/Springstein/Lennon and a million others. Great talent is not genius. Get a life. | ||
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| alpep |
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Joined: December 2001 Posts: 10583 Location: NJ | from the land of benny hill...... | ||
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| Waskel |
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Joined: February 2005 Posts: 11840 Location: closely held secret | Schroed, that's... brilliant. There's a great difference between ingenuity and genius. | ||
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| Waskel |
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Joined: February 2005 Posts: 11840 Location: closely held secret | Originally posted by alpep: He wasn't a genius either. from the land of benny hill...... Spike Milligan, on the other hand... | ||
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OT.FRANK ZAPPA GENIUS OR GARBAGE ???