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Location: Richmond, VA | Standing, that makes sense, although I'm not sure why they would not have been able to do other size/shape bowls. I have seen a picture of a parlor guitar sized prototype.
I have also seen somewhere a listing of bracing patterns and model numbers, I think it was from French marketing materials, but it did not say when the bracing patterns were introduced. So bracing certainly was a variable they could play with, and the Legend debuted with VT-11. I presume the Deluxe Balladeer it grew out of had X bracing. That certainly argues for bracing as a model differentiation. I also found an old Electric Legend with VT-11 bracing that sounded better unplugged than the Legend I've been grumbling about. That has made me wonder if VT-11 was engineered to give better unplugged sound in Legends with the under saddle pickup.
Wish there was someone still around who knew the engineering history, because I'm sure all this stuff was engineered, none of it just happened. |
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Location: Utah | Yes, they made a parlor. I have the 1997 Collector's edition, and they made a nearly identical non-collector's version. It is an excellent guitar, sounding much better than it should. They should bring it back, along with updated versions of the solid and semi-hollow electrics. I have a custom shop Adamas solid body with modern pickups and it can compete with anything else out there. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Different depth bowls were no problem. But different sized bodies (ie soundboards) were. Yes, they made some Parlor guitars. They even made a few (as in 1-2) dreadnaught sized guitars but these were never put into production. I think Alpep may still have one. |
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Location: Richmond, VA | Now an Ovation dread with red spruce, herringbone trim, scalloped X bracing and a contour bowl to fit (a Bubba Bowl) might just be a winner. I've sure had times at festivals I wished I'd had something less susceptible to the elements, but with a vintage bark. A pre war D-45 was the original guitar Ovation used for sound comparison testing. What should a guitar sound like? Break those old charts out and engineer up a Golden Era honker. Martin is getting big money for their Authentics these days. The difference between a D-28 and a D-45 is bling, and that is certainly something Ovation has experience with. I've also got a Custom Legend from the '90s that has as much abalone on it as a D-45, maybe more. Ovation could compete in that dread niche. Get folks like Molly Tuttle and Billy Strings to endorse them and have instruments that work both acoustically and plugged in for them. Recreate Ovations Golden Era.
ps, Why were different soundboards a problem?
Edited by Lefty665 2023-09-26 4:16 PM
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Location: Richmond, VA | Mold the top edge of the bowl on the lower bass bout in to knock off the sharp edge where your arm comes over (sort of like a strat), You'd have a lot of grateful players and a distinctive visual trademark. For playing comfort get yourself an Ovation Dreadbetter. Torrification, and or bowls molded from vintage helicopter blades (the equivalent of sinker mahogany) an upcharge We call this model Huey, and the parlor model Baby Huey. The model marketed for flat picking would have an enlarged soundhole (the Tony model) for enhanced mids and trebles, that vintage Martin sound with Ovation's volume, pop and presence, and on steroids with an Adamas carbon fiber sandwich top option on the Winfield Champion Flatpicking model. Talk about a reimagined line of guitars. Martin got the better part of a century out of dreads, now it's time for the next generation.... Ovation.
20 years ago Martin made some aluminum topped guitars with synthetic molded sides and backs. Chris said he didn't want his daughter going to a guitar show wearing a T shirt that said "My Daddy cut down the last tree". They sounded surprisingly good, but Martin's traditional fans hated them so they were quickly dropped.. Ovation might have more acceptance combined with a Lyrachord bowl back. An Ovation Alumination.
Edited by Lefty665 2023-09-26 5:46 PM
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Location: Utah | Ovation/Adamas have a unique problem in the market. They represent an older generation. Newer brands have concocted all manner of alternative ways to do things, such as a single sound port not in the middle. Never mind that Adamas and then the Ovation Elite had multiple holes first. Some brands have quite different headstocks which appear to simply be different for the sake of being different. The Ovation headstock relaxes the lateral bend the strings have to make from the nut to the tuner, especially the D and G strings, so it has a purpose.
Some of these newer brands have changed the body shape somewhat, especially in the area of the treble cutout. They have stylish bridge shapes. Again, seemingly just to look different.
Meanwhile, Ovation and Adamas retain the same shapes because they work. In the arena of young newcomers, say in the preteen through college age, appearance is overwhelmingly important. The guitar has to look cool, hip, modern. Not Grandpa's guitar. My teen daughter immediately chose the Red Flame Ovation 1778T on the wall at Guitar Center, and she was definitely an influencer on stage with numerous other high schoolers buying Ovations after seeing her perform. But that's an anomaly when most Ovations are "boring" finishes.
Some brands such as Martin get away with "classic" designs because they are so old. Like a '57 Chevy, classic is cool, unlike an '87 minivan which is anything but cool!
Many of Ovation's innovations are more under the hood than in your face. Neck construction. Neck to body attachment. Changes to the fiberglass bowl. The preamps and their features.
Ovation definitely failed in marketing from the Fender era. Beancounters more interested in ROI and Market Share have followed the cost cutting and off-shoring modern management theory. I think we are seeing some positive changes with some of the new models and online marketing recently with the new owners. If they'd get a few young popular performers playing some not-boring Ovations it would certainly help. |
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Location: Richmond, VA | Seems like it could be a marketing opportunity for Ovation. We were not your grandpa's guitar company before your grandpa was your grandpa. We know how to do it!
Martin is peddling around 100k guitars in some recent years. That's a lot of instruments, and a majority of them are dreads. I outlined a line of dreads Ovation could sell into that market, and with a Not your grandpa's dread cachet. Some of the new makers are peddling carbon guitars that are two pieces snapped together. Ovation could have a piece of that low price market too with their previous experience using molded bowls with aluminum/poly necks as the starting point. Ovation's electronics have been good all along, that spins into more options for today too. Non traditional guitar making in a growing world wide market. Martin is pushing models at about every $100 point starting at around $500 using their Mexican plant for the lower end models. Ovation has provided multiple price points through off shore mfg for 50 years. It can do that as well as anyone else and better than some.
In all it seems like an opportunity for Ovation to capitalize on their history and have a resurgence in this wonderful world of the future.
Edited by Lefty665 2023-09-27 4:59 PM
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Location: When?? | @Lefty665 - >>>In all it seems like an opportunity for Ovation to capitalize on their history and have a resurgence in this wonderful world of the future.<<<
You'd think. But still waiting. And it's not like they would have to ditch their traditional, but merely to expand. The only case I recall was the square-edge body they developed a few years back, and that was the end of that (at least so far). |
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Location: Utah | Imho, fwiw, ymmv....
Some products are mundane. Toothpaste, for example. Or garden hoses. If you're manufacturing toothpaste, you care about profit. The stockholders want high ROI. Managers track their market share to be sure they are not falling behind the competition. If the numbers aren't good enough, stockholders may switch to owning garden hose manufacturers.
But other products are very personal to the owner, who buys it with the intent to bond with it and keep it a long time. Musical instruments for example. Especially those above the cheap not-much-more-than-a-toy entry level instruments. Craftsmen put pride and effort into building the instrument. There is nothing logical about putting more human effort into making a finer instrument, nor is it a logical expenditure of the buyer's resources to acquire it. Profit, ROI, and market share are incidental to the enterprise.
Profit is very good but not the only measure of value to the world. Trying to flood the world with cheap crap so that one can claim slightly improved market share, or cutting quality to claim higher margins, only serve the money while ignoring the human factors.
Painting a guitar flashy colors while cutting corners on the build and compromising the tone seemed to be the strategy a few years ago. Cheapening the brand seems a bad long term strategy, but, well, Fender. The present owners look to be on a better path. I am hopeful.
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Location: Richmond, VA | FlySig. you say some interesting things, but your basic premises are sketchy.
"Profit, ROI, and market share are incidental to the enterprise" All manufactured products, whether tooth paste or good guitars must return enough income to support their continued manufacture or manufacture ceases. Manufacturers are in business to build things to make money. It is pretty simple, no sales, no money, no product. If you look at the churn in the musical instruments business over the years it is stark. No sales leads to no products (out of business) or company sales to new owners who think they can make money.
"Craftsmen put pride and effort into building the instrument". They do, but craftsmen do that with everything they work on, that is how we can tell they are craftsmen. If they do their jobs well and the product is successful they get to come back tomorrow and do it again and get paid again.
"There is nothing logical about putting more human effort into making a finer instrument, nor is it a logical expenditure of the buyer's resources to acquire it." To the contrary, finer instruments sell for more money. In a factory price on finer instruments goes up faster than costs of production. Finer instruments are more profitable. Some people buy the best sounding instruments they can afford, I certainly have over the years. Sound is worth money to me and to many others, that is pretty logical. With Ovation the equation is clear with the Elite and Adamas guitars. The manufacture is similar. There is not a lot of difference in cost between AAA spruce and a carbon fiber birch sandwich top. The selling price varies considerably.
"Profit is very good but not the only measure of value to the world." Absolutely.
"Painting a guitar flashy colors while cutting corners on the build and compromising the tone seemed to be the strategy a few years ago." You know more there than I do, I wasn't paying much attention. It did seem that Ovation maintained some higher quality instruments in their domestic operations while the mix to cheaper and flashier offshore guitars increased. Dunno how it worked for Ovation, but an interesting trend in the instrument business has been the dramatic increase in quality of entry level instruments over the last couple of decades. It has squeezed manufacturers and pushed them to up the quality of their higher end instruments.
"The present owners look to be on a better path. I am hopeful." I hope so too. Envisioning how that process might unfold was what drove the little marketing exercises I indulged in. First a sizeable market segment Ovation has not directly addressed (dreads), and second a market position as a non traditional manufacturer of long standing and stature.
It is interesting to explore this stuff. Thx for playing.
Edited by Lefty665 2023-09-28 1:55 PM
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Location: Richmond, VA | Love O Fair. Interesting. I knew that the very first prototype ca '66 was a square edged guitar, and that they immediately dumped it. I did not know they revisited the topic. Anyplace I can look to find out a little more? Did the contour back come out of that experiment?
Edited by Lefty665 2023-09-28 2:10 PM
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Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire | I think they (Ovation marketing crew) dipped their toes back into the mainstream (square-back bodies), and it was pretty cold. Haven't seen a lot of reviews of those models, either. Just the announcement from the NAMM show a few years ago.
Edited by seesquare 2023-09-28 2:37 PM
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Location: When?? | @Lefty665 - >>>Anyplace I can look to find out a little more?<<<
Here on the OFC was the only place I saw anything about it, and it was only one thread with a video from NAMM. I browsed the old postings and cannot [easily] locate it since I have no idea what the thread title was (Arthur could have found it in a hot second. I miss him.) Like Seesquare said, it was pretty cold. Likely a proto of only one or a few produced to test the waters. The thing I first recall was some type of way-funky configuration with the electronics to where you had to actually noodle your finger inside of the sound hole to adjust the volume (or something like that). Just a weird duck all around on may aspects, and much like something you remember from a strange dream for the first two minutes after waking up. And no, the contour bowl had been around for eons prior. The square box was just a few years back (being a DW-era invention, I think). I cannot recall the sound of it, but it was obviously nothing that shattered the competition, and the only "cool" part about it was seeing a square-edge body with an Ovation headstock.
Edited by Love O Fair 2023-09-28 7:25 PM
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Location: Phoenix AZ | I think Kim has one. Larrivee built it out in California ... Basically an Elite neck and epaulets on a Larrivee body. If you want a wooden box guitar, then I would say the best Ovation wooden guitars were the New Hartford Guilds. I own several of these.
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Here you go ...
http://www.ovationfanclub.com/megabbs/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=49...
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Location: Utah | Lefty665 - 2023-09-28 12:25 PM
FlySig. you say some interesting things, but your basic premises are sketchy.
"Profit, ROI, and market share are incidental to the enterprise" All manufactured products, whether tooth paste or good guitars must return enough income to support their continued manufacture or manufacture ceases.
...
It is interesting to explore this stuff. Thx for playing.
My view is a bit different. Which I say as an avowed free market capitalist who is working hard to create income in our retirement. Profit is good!
Profit is not everything. It depends on the individual and the circumstances. My son, for example, works for a master violin maker. They make very high end instruments (violin, viola, cello, bass). They sell very high end bows, and deal in interesting (old) used instruments. They do make profit on all of those. The craftsmen do get paid a decent wage. Absent some profit they, of course, would not make anything.
They pay a lot of the bills with student level instruments. These are a titch nicer than the robot made mass market stuff, and cost just a bit more, but the maker's name brings in buyers. It is analogous to Celebrity guitars. All good value for the money for learners or those who aren't nuts like us. Not as much personal joy to the makers as the finer instruments, but it balances against the $ needed to stay in business.
The staff at the shop get a lot of personal satisfaction making and repairing fine instruments. They could all make more money doing something else if they simply wanted to accumulate dollars.
If ROI is one's only goal, investing in musical instrument makers is not the best idea!
Regarding Ovation, when the venture capitalists bought them it wasn't to build the brand or to build ever better instruments, it was to raid the $ and leave the carcass in the gutter. Fancy MBA managers chased ROI, squashed costs, and intentionally blurred the differentiation between the levels (Applause, Celebrity, Ovation). They made it impossible for mom & pop stores to stock a small selection. The only instruments one could try were lower tier but with the Ovation logo on the headstock, usually with old grimy strings, and at a punishingly loud Guitar Center.
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Location: Richmond, VA | Thanks guys for the link and the info. I've heard a couple of stunning Larrivees over the years and more that were more ho hum. Interesting that Ovation teamed up with them for a demo guitar. My recollection from early Ovation days was that the braces and angles required for a square back guitar so compromised getting sound out that it was quickly rejected. Certainly Ovations have a liveliness and projection that are distinctive. I like the idea of New Haven Guilds being wooden Ovations.
FlySig Glad to see we are not so far apart. FWIW I found that creating profit in retirement started decades before. At least that makes it a lot easier. Although I was a product of B schools, before it was fashionable, I have despised the MBA dorks who trash long term thriving for short term gain and ROI. They know the price of everything and the value of nothing as the saying goes. We're reaping the cost of 30+ years of deindustrialization and short term profit taking. It is going to get uglier if we manage to really p* the Chinese off. America can't flush toilets or fix tractors without Chinese parts. In running my own operation I found that the first thing I had to do was keep the place working. Product mix and pricing varied with how busy we were. Nothing can be profitable without enough volume to spread overhead over units. Those more utilitarian products kept the doors open while the more esoteric things were more fulfilling. The good stuff also carried wider margins, but the higher the price the smaller the market, so they couldn't carry keeping the doors open by themselves. It was a really interesting equation, especially when we screwed up and were either sitting around looking at each other because the shop was empty or busier than one armed paper hangers. We got better at forecasting and managing to hang at a controlled level of chaos.
Martin seems to have done a remarkable job of transforming itself. These days they are doing high volume that spreads overhead over a lot of units while their high end lines and custom shop products are back ordered a year to two years. Chris certainly created profits for his retirement. If they're smart they will expand the high end production to take advantage of the demand while it is there.
Edited by Lefty665 2023-09-29 11:52 AM
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Location: Richmond, VA | What do y'all like? I've run on about how much I like the Balladeer I got in 1972 and a newer Glen Campbell that has many similar characteristics, the early Legend that I'm not so fond of, a slightly newer electric Legend that sounds better, and a 2010 Custom Elite that projects well but is not as inspiring as it's price when new would have predicted. I've never played an Adamas, what do they sound like? Are they worth the startling premium they command? My ear is shaped by Martin dreads, especially the cleaner focused tone of D-18s and playing Bluegrass, older country and (cough) Americana I've run into over the years. Josh White was my first musical idol and who turned me on to Ovation in the first place. I grew up around D.C. so Charlie Byrd was another early Ovation influence.
What trips you guys triggers? Are there different Ovations I should be thinking about?
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Location: When?? | On the business topic, my credentials have been self-employed an entire working lifetime. Beyond a dozen-plus solid ventures over 47 years, and across an array of endeavors which the balance of confounds any straight line. Mostly small (25 or less people), none of which ever failed to run at profit. But I’m also willing to work the primary function and to eat lean in order to maintain black ink-- all the while watching competitors fall around our feet for some of the most ridiculous reasons. Show-offs mostly among them. A handful of philanthropic projects, too. At least enough that my working “papers” from such are now featured in the permanent archive of a major university (Syracuse). Frankly, those are the most valuable to me.
But be it large or small.. capital or not.. the same dynamics and principles apply. A willingness to find reasons for reasoning, and as few hands as possible in the orchestration while trusting experienced over “educated” management. It is the ilk of those who ‘dreamed up’ their ultimate empire before they ever left school that will cripple or kill a company or project in quick order-- hence, Charlie’s guts vs. Fender’s weenies. Most of those Fender foons wouldn’t know the tone of an A-minor guitar chord from the sound of a skidding tire screech.. but seem to know everything about brands of scotch. Charlie knew about helicopters and guitars for profit.. but he also knew about raising guide dogs for humans in need. I strongly believe that such a blend of tenacity spread throughout a company is what ultimately shows up on the ledger and longevity. Charlie Kaman, Herb Kelleher and J.B. Hunt wrote that book.
As for guitar preferences, let’s face it-- they have been, and always will be, a Coke-Pepsi, Chevy-Ford thing. None are superior to others on the same level of build and cost. I’ve owned maybe 20 Ovations in life, and just recently settled on which ones to retire with on my wall. Carefully choosing one from each decade produced in the USA.. and there they hang. But that’s only because it’s the brand I cut my teeth on and grew up with before the years of actually ‘buying’ the damn things. It’s my personal go-to.. but there still remains a wide space between brand devotion and musical perception. I play a friend’s Taylor 914 and practically propose marriage to it-- though sometimes pick up a $15 yard sale guitar and discover magic. It’s all about the personal ear and touch if you’re talking music. Respect for the instrument and what it does for you, not the brand and model. In fact, I know a guy with a classic ’72 Ovation Legend that he just can’t seem to.. well.. you know.
And so be the gospel according to LOF. Meantime, I’m batching it this weekend and need to go get the party started.. so I’ll shut up now.
Edited by Love O Fair 2023-09-29 3:27 PM
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Location: Utah | Lefty665 - 2023-09-29 10:34 AM
FWIW I found that creating profit in retirement started decades before. At least that makes it a lot easier. Although I was a product of B schools, before it was fashionable, I have despised the MBA dorks who trash long term thriving for short term gain and ROI. They know the price of everything and the value of nothing as the saying goes. We're reaping the cost of 30+ years of deindustrialization and short term profit taking.
If the stock market would return to pre-pandemic growth I would be quite happy! Also it would be nice if the tax man would leave us alone for a while. And if inflation would reduce, yeah that would be great too.
My long term employer that I retired from was originally a family business. Though they had gone public decades prior to my starting there, the CEO was from that family. Many of the old timers when I started had grown up with him. There were a lot of long term friends across the operation. Management was astute, but they also had a pride in the company name and pride in their family reputation.
The employees really took pride in working for that company, and it showed in our customer satisfaction surveys. People stayed rather than go to other employers because of the fun atmosphere and the quality of life, despite a lower pay scale than some other choices.
Then when the CEO retired a new guy came in who was an ivy league MBA. It was the race to the bottom on costs. People described it as the Walmart-ization of the company. Even to this day they look at employees as a cost not an asset. Today, employee morale is low, attrition is high. |
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Location: Utah | Which O/A guitars do I like?
In the Ovation line I like the mid 1970's A-braced legends. I own two of them, one a 1976 Patriot and the other a 1979 model 1619. Both are deep bowl. The Patriot is acoustic only, so it has a bone saddle. It is the best sounding wood top acoustic I've played across any brand. Definitely a bit unrefined and 1970's vibe to the tone. The 1619 is a really close second. The other Ovation I really loved was the 2007 BCS, which is a deep contour bowl LX era Elite style but with only bass side sound holes. Plugged in it was better than the older A-Braced 1619. Unplugged it was a bigger bolder sound and a bit more modern or balanced, maybe a bit cleaner. Every bit as satisfying as the Patriot. Any of those 3 are outstanding for a solo living room performance or playing in an ensemble in an auditorium.
The 2007BCS was nearly as good as the Adamas 2080, so when I had to thin the herd I kept the Adamas. But it was a close call, so that is how good the 2007 BCS was. There was something about those 2007s that everybody loves. I never played the equivalent 2778LX or the less bling but otherwise the same 2078LX but would expect those to be darned good.
I own 3 Adamas guitars and have played a few others. The tops are more responsive to right hand technique than the wood topped Ovations, which is wasted on me. When playing a chord, each string is individually identifiable. (This is where the 2007BCS lost out by a hair to the 2080). Playing a chord on an Ovation you hear a blending of the notes, whereas the Adamas has the individual notes more easily heard. The Adamas is a more even, balanced response, which might be called more refined. I think a good contrast would be Tracy Chapman's guitar which has a definite wood resonance.
The Adamas 1687GT is just a do-everything-great guitar. A gut rumbling, clean, beautiful sound. It is just a few years old and was one of the last guitars out of the custom shop before they shut down New Hartford. The workmanship is top notch, the electronics are fantastic. If I could only have one guitar, this is probably the one.
The Adamas 2080 is a beast. Bold and in your face. Currently strung with mediums and tuned a whole step down. Probably the best stage Adamas if you want to stand out in the crowd.
The 1198AV40 is elegant and refined. 12 frets to the body, so a mellower tone. No electronics. This is my wife's favorite.
I currently also own a 1997 Collector's edition parlor and a 1537 Elite from 1983. Both are excellent in their own way with nothing bad to say about them. Pre-pandemic I played a lot of medieval and renaissance music on the 1537. Clear, clean, not brash or bold. The parlor is fun, sounds great. For a younger player or an adult with smaller hands it would be perfection with the slim neck and smaller body.
In general, I have always been impressed with the USA made LX era guitars more so than the 1990's era equivalents. I've never played an Adamas from any era that didn't seriously impress. |
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Location: Richmond, VA | Tks guys. First a quick pass at who I am. As noted before, I stumbled into the B school and my first real jobs were in production and marketing management. I dove into the small computer revolution and formed an IT company that exists today. We ended up as a miniature version of Perot's Electronic Data Systems. We did hardware, OS, networking, software and ran back office accounting operations. I wrote a fund balance accounting system that we both vended and operated. Wish I was young and could do it all over again with today's tools, but I'm happily retired and enjoying playing with guitars, Oh, and I'm fond of smoky peaty Islay scotches.
I've had good fortune with guitars. The one in my avatar is an early '50s D-18 I got out of a pawn shop in '68. It is home to me, easy to gig with and a sound that sometimes is described as "that's what a guitar is supposed to sound like". I have liked post war Martin Dreads. They have reverse shifted straight braces that give excellent note definition, clarity and balance from low E to octave 1st string without a big boom on the bass even in rosewood. When combined with mahogany the clarity of sound focused around the note is exceptional. The Balladeer I got in '72 was attractive in having similar qualities and a "liveness" that was and is attractive. Neither the D-18 or Balladeer were as grown up then as they are now.
25 years later came an early '90s Custom Legend, also a pawn shop guitar. The guys I was picking with at the time were getting new Martins and Taylors that had pearl rings around the soundhole. The CL had more abalone than a D-45 so I had more than pearl parity. Although a deep bowl it had just OK sound, even with A bracing it was not as good as the old Balladeer, That CL may have the nicest neck I have ever played. About 5 years ago an early Glen Campbell jumped off the wall at a guitar store. It was nominally late '60s, with an old label and M xxx serial number. However, it had a story. In the early '90s it had gone back to Ovation for a face crack. They replaced the top and maybe the bowl. It is A braced, artist depth bowl and sounds very much like my old Balladeer, but with a little more mids and trebles. It is a very nice sounding guitar. The two of those together are a fine combination flat picking fiddle tunes. They remind me that Tony Rice used an Ovation on his Manzanita CD, specifically the title tune.
Recently I rediscovered my infatuation with Ovations and got a little out of control with several inexpensive Ovations off Ebay. First was a 2010 Custom Elite LX. with the scalloped X braces It sounds pretty good, has a lot of projection, nice tone and very nice electronics. It satisfied my curiosity about guitars with "those" sound holes. Second was the early Legend that is the subject of my posts here. It was pretty but disappointing. Last is a mid '70s Deluxe Balladeer that has not gotten here yet. It should be X braced and I'm hoping it will match the sound of the old Balladeer and GC. Plus it's red and I have not had a gaudy guitar since I sold a mid '60s J-45 with gawdawful put your eyes out cherry sunburst.
Think my last Ovation itch is Adamas. What am I looking for? What will the sound be? What kind of cost? All the ones on Ebay seem to be coming from Japan with price tags that parallel the inflated prices they're asking for Martins. Are some model numbers more attractive than others? All I really care about is sound (and playability). Nothing else really matters to me. I mostly flatpick and all acoustic, so that's what one needs to do. FlySig where does that fit with your descriptions? What do you you think I'd like to pick?
Edited by Lefty665 2023-10-02 6:45 PM
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Location: Utah | Either the 1687GT or the 2080 would be my suggestion. The 1687 is the round deep bowl, whereas the 2080 is the deep contour which is also a cutaway. The 2080 is out of production.
There are some other interesting options, depending on what exactly you're looking for in tone, but I am inferring you are looking for a bit of zing and good full bottom end like the Martin dreds. That suggests deep or deep contour bowls.
The 2087GT is current production and is pretty darned close to the 2080. The 2080 did not have the suspension ring, and perhaps that gives it a bit more of a bolder tone, so I would expect the 2087GT to be a bit more refined than the 2080. The 2080 has the NWT carbon fiber top which is different than the 1687GT top but I don't know how that affects tone. Aesthetically the two tops do have a different mood.
There was a 2080SR version made for a while, fwiw.
There is a new model MD80-NWT which is a mid depth contour bowl. Perhaps better for standing than the deep contour. ? I hear good things about this guitar.
The current production Adamas are shipping with the OpPro Studio preamp. It is a great preamp but I actually prefer the VIP in the Adamas. The 2080 came with a VIP. If you play plugged in, I would prefer the VIP in the Adamas and the Studio in wood topped Ovations. All else being equal.
The current production are all hand laid bowls, but the 2080 is the molded glass bead bowl. I think the new bowls are slightly lighter. The pre-LX era bowls are a lot heavier than either glass bead or the modern hand laid.
Damon at Red Blanket Guitars has a bunch of new Adamas in stock. He has been my go-to dealer for a few years now, and will give you honest answers about the different models. He is a life-long Ovation/Adamas fan.
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Joined:
December 2018
Posts: 38
Location: Richmond, VA | Thank you very much. That is good and specific info for me to chew on. Looks like around $5k on the Adamas. What is there in negotiation room on those these days?
Edited by Lefty665 2023-10-03 6:42 PM
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Joined:
December 2018
Posts: 38
Location: Richmond, VA | Any idea when Ovation switched from brown to black cases? FWIW, '72 had brown and '76 that just showed up has a black case. I initially thought that was a newer case until I realized it has several chips that look like they come from being old and brittle. That makes me think that by '76 Ovation had changed to black cases. |
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VT-11 bracing improvements
