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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | I think that you have the concept of "partnership" and "sub-contractor" confused.
As to Old Farts and collectors...
There are people that collect old Martins, Washburns, old Fenders.
Those people are not buying HPL Martins, Chinese Washburns, or anything new by Fender.
I like Ovations.
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| Old Man Arthur - 2016-01-07 11:37 AM
I think that you have the concept of "partnership" and "sub-contractor" confused.
As to Old Farts and collectors...
There are people that collect old Martins, Washburns, old Fenders.
Those people are not buying HPL Martins, Chinese Washburns, or anything new by Fender.
I like Ovations.
I don't know what the current relationship is. I do know that Spax owns the patent on the woven wooden composite bowl, and that Ovation seems to be pursuing that with them.
You might not realize this, but your dislike of this work with Spax has come through loud and clear yet again. I just reminds me of a topic from another forum (not a runner's forum) on long distance running, where one member entered to let everyone else know how little the member liked running, with nothing constructive to add to the conversation. It's hilarious to find echoes of it in this topic.
jay - 2016-01-07 11:05 AM
"older collectors who cannot sustain the company as a viable commercial venture"
Yep...this board did not and will not save Ovation from market insignificance. They have to come up with a product that is different...but the same...much like Chevy and Ford did with the Mustang and Camaro.
Problem is, DW doesn’t have the pockets of F or GM. And cars are not guitars. Ovation does not have the perfect storm of Campbell, developing a killer piezo for acoustic amplification, an exciting new guitar design and a kajillion artists wanting that on stage. Those days are gone. Making guitars out of "plastic" isn't earth shattering...yes, Ovation came up with it first, but that means nothing today in the market.
DW has its work cut out. It is exciting to see them trying to get the roundback design to evolve in this millennium... hopefully they can find a niche, in an already saturated market.
I've been thinking about the whole artist angle recently, thinking specifically about two artists appearances:
The first was a strange bump in hurdy gurdy sales, caused by Sting playing hurdy gurdy to accompany his duet with Allison Kraus on the Academy Awards. It struck a chord with some young players, and I occasionally hear people in their 20s pulling out this instrument. It seems so odd to me, as they're not cheap, but it's this weird placemarker which might grow into someone using the hurdy gurdy more in the future.
The second was Taylor Swift and her use of the six-string banjo on her song Mean, with the instrument being visible in the music video, and also in her appearance in (I think) the Grammies. That led to a bump in interest in six-string banjos among not just younger players, but specifically girls and young women. It was interesting to see the contrast between my friends in retail noting that they were selling a surprising number of such instruments, and the traditionalists on a banjo forum who were hating on Taylor Swift for not following the totally hip example of playing like Earl Scruggs. For some reason, the banjo forum just wasn't interested in promoting banjo playing as a whole, but just wanted one tradition to represent banjo, even though that one tradition doesn't even garner enough interest to keep the bluegrass channel up on satellite radio over the holidays. (It was bumped for Hannukah music, because it has lower numbers than even the lowest rated stations among various popular musics.)
This is the model of gear placement used by many manufacturers, and I'm hopeful Ovation will again be able to get gear into the hands of artists who are relevant to the music-listening and -playing public. I'm in favor of Ovation doing so without any caveats, whether it be with the new ideas, with a resurgence of older lines, or whatever. I think that if Ovation survives, Ovation will continue innovating, following in the footsteps first laid down by Charlie Kaman. |
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Location: Upper Left USA | 
Copying for fun is OK. Copying for profit, not so much.
Edited by MWoody 2016-01-08 8:07 AM
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Location: Hot Springs, S.D. | Six string banjo's are bogus. If you want it to SOUND like a banjo, you need it to be TUNED like a banjo. Those E and A bass strings sound awful, and without the fifth string you can never get a decent-sounding roll.
If you want to play banjo, get a real banjo. As far as I'm concerned, those fake six strings banjo's are the equivalent of guitar hero. |
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Location: south east Michigan | Yer right.... I'd say the same thing about uke/guitars. |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | Slipkid - 2016-01-08 1:27 PM
Yer right.... I'd say the same thing about uke/guitars.
So I guess that means you don't want to hear my cover of Over the Rainbow/Wonderful World on guitar, capoed to sound like a uke. |
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Location: south east Michigan | Mark...If you're doin' it, ... yes I do. |
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| CanterburyStrings - 2016-01-08 11:30 AM
Six string banjo's are bogus. If you want it to SOUND like a banjo, you need it to be TUNED like a banjo. Those E and A bass strings sound awful, and without the fifth string you can never get a decent-sounding roll.
If you want to play banjo, get a real banjo. As far as I'm concerned, those fake six strings banjo's are the equivalent of guitar hero.
Yes, because Johnny St. Cyr and Django Reinhardt didn't understand that they had to sound like Scruggs.
Really? Your argument is that all banjo has to sound like a Scruggs roll?
That's seems like arguing that a guitar has to have a wooden back and sides like a Martin.
I always find it interesting when people involved in a creative endeavor like music can't muster enough imagination to broaden their perspective. |
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Location: Thredbo, NSW, Australia | CanterburyStrings - 2016-01-09 6:30 AM
Six string banjo's are bogus. If you want it to SOUND like a banjo, you need it to be TUNED like a banjo. Those E and A bass strings sound awful, and without the fifth string you can never get a decent-sounding roll.
If you want to play banjo, get a real banjo. As far as I'm concerned, those fake six strings banjo's are the equivalent of guitar hero.
+1
A 5 string banjo tuned to G is so close to a guitar for a guitarist that it's very easy to learn the minor variations in the chords.
But I guess it's just a bit too difficult for some.
To each their own.
Edited by BanjoJ 2016-01-09 2:31 AM
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | CanterburyStrings - 2016-01-08 11:30 AM
If you want it to SOUND like a banjo........
Really? That's a thing? |
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Location: Frozen Tundra of Minnesota | Explorer - 2016-01-09 1:46 AM
CanterburyStrings - 2016-01-08 11:30 AM
Six string banjo's are bogus. If you want it to SOUND like a banjo, you need it to be TUNED like a banjo. Those E and A bass strings sound awful, and without the fifth string you can never get a decent-sounding roll.
If you want to play banjo, get a real banjo. As far as I'm concerned, those fake six strings banjo's are the equivalent of guitar hero.
Yes, because Johnny St. Cyr and Django Reinhardt didn't understand that they had to sound like Scruggs.
Really? Your argument is that all banjo has to sound like a Scruggs roll?
That's seems like arguing that a guitar has to have a wooden back and sides like a Martin.
I always find it interesting when people involved in a creative endeavor like music can't muster enough imagination to broaden their perspective.
That was rude and uncalled for. You might want to get to know some of these people before you start labeling and insulting them. |
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Location: Northwest Arkansas | CanterburyStrings - 2016-01-08 1:30 PM
Six string banjo's are bogus. If you want it to SOUND like a banjo, you need it to be TUNED like a banjo. Those E and A bass strings sound awful, and without the fifth string you can never get a decent-sounding roll.
If you want to play banjo, get a real banjo. As far as I'm concerned, those fake six strings banjo's are the equivalent of guitar hero.
+1 Buy a banjo. There are very few banjitar (gitjo) songs. 5-string is a lot of fun to play. Like anything else it's work, but well worth it. |
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Location: Hot Springs, S.D. | That's OK, Explorer. Some folks are too lazy to do anything but cheat. If that's the kind of person you are you ought to get yourself one of these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/CHORD-BUDDY-Guitar-Learning-Teaching-System...
It'll make your banjitar and guitar playing both so much better. You won't even need callouses! |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | Slipkid - 2016-01-08 8:15 PM
Mark...If you're doin' it, ... yes I do.
I'm a bit worried that I might derail this thread just when it was getting into some banjo bashing, but yes, I did Izzy's cover or medley, by capoing up and just playing the top 4 strings. It was close to how he played it on a uke. Like most things, I haven't played it in years and I'd have to find the tab I used and work on it a bunch to do it again.
Getting way off track, I was working on other versions of Wonderful World or Over the Rainbow back then and bought a tab book from Eva Cassidy's family to start on her version of Rainbow. I really like that version and it works good in the same key and if I sing it down an octave it fits my range well.
Back on track, I suspect Explorer is doing a bit of baiting here, or perhaps is just arguing. I get enough of that at work.
I am concerned about the loss of the brand recognition that trademarks and patents are designed to protect. That is a real risk, particularly in China. There seems to be a fuzzy line between innovation and patent infringement and I wonder if Fender did as much to protect the brand as Ovation did back when Charlie and Bill were running the show. |
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Location: Hot Springs, S.D. | Back on track, I suspect Explorer is doing a bit of baiting here, or perhaps is just arguing. I get enough of that at work.
You're right, but I'm feeling like a wrung-out dishrag today and it just hit me wrong. And of course you know how much I love my banjo. Scruggs style, clawhammer, Fleck style, or even Alison style which is a cross between traditional and jazz. But always, always, ALWAYS on a five-string, which brings so many new possibilities into play that in a lot of ways it is far easier to play than guitar. |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Ok you's guys... knock it off. Why? Cause you got me thinking about Banjo's today.... and I don't understand them, nor do I care to, and I certainly don't like thinking about them. No offense intended to Banjo players... But for perspective I'd rather listen to Country music or RAP, or chalk on a blackboard if I'm being honest.  Well that's an exaggeration, I can listen to a little bit of Banjo... I'd just rather not. |
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Location: Hot Springs, S.D. | That's OK Miles. If there weren't people who hated banjo's I wouldn't have been able to add to my collection the way I did last summer. All I had to do was leave a banjo in my unlocked car and before long, people had put 2 more in it. |
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Location: Frozen Tundra of Minnesota | CanterburyStrings - 2016-01-09 4:57 PM
That's OK Miles. If there weren't people who hated banjo's I wouldn't have been able to add to my collection the way I did last summer. All I had to do was leave a banjo in my unlocked car and before long, people had put 2 more in it.
LOL!!!!!!!!!! Excellent!!! LOL!!!!  |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | CanterburyStrings - 2016-01-09 2:57 PM
That's OK Miles. If there weren't people who hated banjo's I wouldn't have been able to add to my collection the way I did last summer. All I had to do was leave a banjo in my unlocked car and before long, people had put 2 more in it.
Now that's funny !!! LOL |
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| Nancy - 2016-01-09 6:14 AM
Explorer - 2016-01-09 1:46 AM
CanterburyStrings - 2016-01-08 11:30 AM
Six string banjo's are bogus. If you want it to SOUND like a banjo, you need it to be TUNED like a banjo. Those E and A bass strings sound awful, and without the fifth string you can never get a decent-sounding roll.
If you want to play banjo, get a real banjo. As far as I'm concerned, those fake six strings banjo's are the equivalent of guitar hero.
Yes, because Johnny St. Cyr and Django Reinhardt didn't understand that they had to sound like Scruggs.
Really? Your argument is that all banjo has to sound like a Scruggs roll?
That's seems like arguing that a guitar has to have a wooden back and sides like a Martin.
I always find it interesting when people involved in a creative endeavor like music can't muster enough imagination to broaden their perspective.
That was rude and uncalled for. You might want to get to know some of these people before you start labeling and insulting them.
Nancy, I just had a hard time imagining that someone was defining the whole world of banjos by usage of a roll. That seemed rather limiting, in the same way as I noted that Martin doesn't define the world of guitars.
I do like that there were then comments about laziness and such. I don't mind learning more about a person, especially through their comments and what they reveal.
But now, back to my hopes for more information on Ovation expanding beyond the current lines, already much further outside the limits of the Martin-only mindset. |
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Location: Frozen Tundra of Minnesota | I have apologized to Mr Ovation for my comments, this is his and Al's House, and I am a Guest here too.
You seem like a very intelligent person Explorer, so you already know that sometimes you can garner more insight with a kinder, more gentle approach when inquiring about someone's thought process.
I ask more questions here than a 2 year old to it's mother, and everyone here has always been extremely kind and patient in sharing their time, insight and knowledge with me. And I ask some doozies!
Edited by Nancy 2016-01-09 8:40 PM
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | No... No need to apologize Nancy.
Don't back down. Explorer is a Troll.
He even sez so himself in the Welcome Center.
Yeah, and I meant it too.
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Location: SoCal | Nancy, IMHO your questions are an innocent and sincere attempt to gain desired information, without sarcasm or reflective of a bias (other than support of Ovation and the efforts of the Ovation staff).
Unfortunately, some log on with a bias rather that a desire to seek advice or information concerning a specific subject.
These are the individuals that act like they have been hurt or abused...as if they are a victim. Fortunately, many of us recognize them as the perpetrator.
The strength of the OFC in the past was that even though to some the answer may be obvious, the archive or forum responses are helpful to newer members. As many of the "older folks" have stopped or reduced their posting, many of the questions are necessary and valid to newer members. |
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Location: Frozen Tundra of Minnesota | Tony Calman - 2016-01-09 11:45 PM
... The strength of the OFC in the past was that even though to some the answer may be obvious, the archive or forum responses are helpful to newer members. As many of the "older folks" have stopped or reduced their posting, many of the questions are necessary and valid to newer members.
That is very true, and very insightful Tony! I am sure that a ton of people have already asked the same questions I am, and have answered them over and over again. That is what also makes this Group so Special, they still take the time to share their knowledge, or direct you to where you can find it. They are Good People who honestly want to share what they know!
Thank You very much Tony!
Now to go back on topic, has Ovation said anything about the Spax backs on their guitars? They had that very simple answer of "It's Wood" and then the WINK , has Ovation confirmed anything that anyone has seen?? They are showing some VERY nice pieces on their FB page! |
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Location: Flahdaw | I give OMA a lot of credit. He seems always happy to answer the same old newbie's questions over and over again, with never an edge or sarcastic barb attached. For an old veteran of the OFC, he has lots of patience.
But enter a troll, and all niceties vanish. It's fun to witness the sudden transformation...from helpful old codger, to abrasive old bastard. |
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Ovation and Spax partnership?
