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Location: Boise, Idaho | I remember seeing that ad now, too. I had a Patriot that I bought from another OFC member who ended up with 2 accidentally. The one he sold me had a couple of minor finish cracks right below the bridge and he considered having it refinished by the Mothership. That would have necessitated the removal of the decal, for which there were no replacements. Probably the best sounding Ovation I have owned and I've owned I lot. I sold it to another member in a moment of weakness. I hope that you are able to rescue this one from the torture that this guy put it and you through. I have a 1537 that Noah and the adoption agency rescued from a similar, though less extreme, situation and all came out well in the end. I wish you the same good luck. |
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Location: Frozen Tundra of Minnesota | George Frey - 2015-03-01 12:17 PM
Look at my avatar - I am deeply offended! man I can't believe....never mind. The guys are right, naellis - take no prisoners. Keep your communications brief and to the point. Stay calm...I'll flip out for you.
This is one of the top guitars Ovation ever produced, definitely a top 10. I saw the ad and the confederate flag reference on ebay a while back...it made me wary.
Hi George! It is an Honor!
I wish I had been wary, I was just so darned excited to find a Patriot at such a good price, I jumped in with both feet! Everyone here speaks of Patriots with with such awe and respect, I was just excited and stupid... I *really* don't like getting pissy with people, but this guy has been writing me all day wanting me do do more and more for him. He even asked me to take it outside and try to get better pictures for him - Come On!!! This is what cracked it in the first place! it is 10 degrees out there with -15 windchills, I am not going out there, or taking my poor old camera out there! When I asked him if he had told ebay to refund my money, he said that he had until March 4th.... He also said that he knew about the mold, and was allergic to it... But failed to mention that in his ad, I have asthma, and cannot be around it at all! I am getting REALLY ticked off now, and am about to go all Irish on his butt! |
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Location: Frozen Tundra of Minnesota | Mark in Boise - 2015-03-01 1:55 PM
... The one he sold me had a couple of minor finish cracks right below the bridge and he considered having it refinished by the Mothership. That would have necessitated the removal of the decal, for which there were no replacements.
I told him that too, that it was not repairable to it's Original Condition because only 1776 of the decals were created, and when the 1776th Patriot was made, the decal mold was destroyed, thus - Limited Edition! I don't know if John would want to touch this with all the mold and mildew, it is really, really bad....  |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | naellis58 - 2015-03-01 1:20 PM
When I asked him if he had told ebay to refund my money, he said that he had until March 4th.... He also said that he knew about the mold, and was allergic to it... But failed to mention that in his ad, I have asthma, and cannot be around it at all! I am getting REALLY ticked off now, and am about to go all Irish on his butt!
That is all you need.
Go to Customer Service.
Click all appropriate boxes to escalate to the Resolution Center.
They will eventually show you a tab that say "Call" with a phone icon.
Click that tab and the will give you their phone number and a Code Number.
With that code number you can contact eBay.
(you can either wait on hold, or have them call you back. I do the Call Back)
Refer them to the email where he states that he Knew about the Mold.
Also refer them to where he wants you to take the guitar out into -8° weather.
They will just take the money from him.
Like I said, they might send you a shipping label.
(Just slap that on top of his shipping label and send it back)
Maybe he CAN wait until the 4th, but you don't have to wait.
Escalate your dispute to the Resolution Center.
Before he empties his bank account.
(eBay will still return your money)
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Location: Frozen Tundra of Minnesota | It is not letting me get a phone number, it just keeps saying that an existing return is active on this.
This is what he wrote me:
"I just spoke to eBay. They can arrange for the Post Office to come to your house if it's hard to take a picture..."
So here is what I have written back to the Seller: (I am really mad now...)
"Jeff, I understand your wanting to get your Claim processed through the Post Office asap, but I have sent pictures, I have given you all the information I have, and you have not returned my payment through ebay as of yet.
If you want the guitar back, ebay says that you just need to pay for the shipping back, I will most gladly put it in a proper box, and ship it back to you. I can't be around it because of the mold and mildew, and I can't get it repaired as it is a Limited Edition, and it can never be made whole again as a "Patriot", which is why I bought it, and I seriously doubt that anyone would try to work on it with the mold and mildew inside the guitar. I do not have a problem, per se, with the neck, it is the cracks, lifting of the face, damage, divots, rubs and the mold and mildew.
I cannot go outside in this weather, 10 degrees -15 windchills, and try to take outside pictures of it, if you want someone to come over here and take pictures of that, fine, if they will come here. I am trying to follow ebay's rules, and have done everything you asked, but I am not going outside to take pictures of it, nor am I going to go to a Guitar Repair place (there is nothing within 2 hours of me), and try to get documentation for you. Have the guitar shipped back to you, and you can take it into a repair place in Chicago so that they can see it in person.
I have no intention of defrauding you, and if you want the guitar back, I have absolutely NO problem with that, as long as you pay the shipping, I will even put it in a proper box for you, and then it can be shipped in it's existing case without further cost to you of buying a new case, and shipping that up to me, to ship you back the guitar.
I just want this resolved Now.
Thank You Jeff,
Sincerely,
Nancy
Edited by naellis58 2015-03-01 4:47 PM
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| You need to get a message from EBAY, not from this guy, that tells you to return the guitar. The problem here is that sending him the guitar without Ebay asking you to do so could easily constitute some sort of side deal with him that can invalidate the process. I wouldn't return the guitar to him even if he sends you the money to return it. Ebay has not ruled on this. If you send back the guitar, you are currently out the money AND the guitar without knowing if a refund is coming.
Ebay will send the USPS to pick it up? Did EBAY directly tell you that in an email? Follow EBAY WRITTEN instructions. I hope you are only communicating with this guy on EBAY messaging, so everything can be tracked and followed. Hang in there. I wouldn't do anything with this guy without a full refund in your account. In fact, at this point, I probably wouldn't communicate with this guy anymore unless a refund occurs. Then, if he wants the guitar back, he can pay you the money for shipping, or arrange for some service to pick it up at his charge. Just a few thoughts. |
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Location: Frozen Tundra of Minnesota | Englishplayer - 2015-03-01 5:10 PM
You need to get a message from EBAY, not from this guy, that tells you to return the guitar. The problem here is that sending him the guitar without Ebay asking you to do so could easily constitute some sort of side deal with him that can invalidate the process. I wouldn't return the guitar to him even if he sends you the money to return it. Ebay has not ruled on this. If you send back the guitar, you are currently out the money AND the guitar without knowing if a refund is coming.
Ebay will send the USPS to pick it up? Did EBAY directly tell you that in an email? Follow EBAY WRITTEN instructions. I hope you are only communicating with this guy on EBAY messaging, so everything can be tracked and followed. Hang in there. I wouldn't do anything with this guy without a full refund in your account. In fact, at this point, I probably wouldn't communicate with this guy anymore unless a refund occurs. Then, if he wants the guitar back, he can pay you the money for shipping, or arrange for some service to pick it up at his charge. Just a few thoughts.
That makes perfect sense Englishplayer - Thank you for sharing! You are right, I assumed since we were communicating through the ebay message center, and eBay was waiting for us to work it out until March 4th, before they would step in, that this would be considered working with the Seller, but you are right! In my attempt to work it out, it could be misconstrued very easily! Thank You for the advice!!! 
So far, I have heard NOTHING from eBay other than an acknowledgement of them Starting a Return Claim and that they would step in on March 4th, if we did not resolve it ourselves.... |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | As far as I know there is NO SUCH THING as a "return claim".
A seller cannot request you to return an item, nor file a dispute to get you to return an item.
The is NO way for eBay to force you to return an item, so I think this is cattle manure.
This guy is scamming you.
Try calling this number... 866-643-1587
It will ask you for your a code, but it will give you a choice to say that you don't have one.
They will be able to identify you by your phone number if you call from the same number that you have registered with eBay.
I believe that Customer Service closes at 7:00PM PST... if you want to talk to a real person.
So you will have to call tomorrow.
Edited by Old Man Arthur 2015-03-01 8:31 PM
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Location: Frozen Tundra of Minnesota | Thank you Arthur, he wrote me again saying that eBay froze the money, so he could not return it if he wanted to. He also said that eBay told him it would cost him $150 to get the guitar back, so he has to decide if he wants to pay that or not, as he would have to buy a new case and ship it to me, then have to pay for shipping them both back. THAT is hooey, I told him that I would send it in a proper box so it could go back in the existing case.
I am not writing him anymore per everyone's good advice. I am getting all stressed out, and don't need that. I will call the number you gave me tomorrow, and get the scoop from eBay themselves, instead of someone I am now sure is pulling some sort of doo-doo!  |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | First, eBay froze his money because it is YOUR money.
Second, he does not get to choose. He stated "No Returns".
If eBay wants you to return the item, they will send you a shipping label.
When you call eBay, inform them that you want a refund pursuant to the eBay Money Back Guarantee.
If they ask... No, you don't want a "Partial Refund".
I have been given a Partial "courtesy" refund before.
As far as I can tell, a "courtesy" refund come outta eBay's pocket.
But since this guitar stinks and it is damaged, no Partial Refund will make it usable for you.
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Location: Always beautiful canyon country of Utah | OMA knows everything. And it is obvious that this misguided soul neglected his guitar for years -- probably stored it in some mildewed shed somewhere. Whereupon he pulled it out and tried to make some money from it using deceit as his modus operandi. This sometime gentleman merits compassion but not tolerance of his misdeeds. You are correct in pursuing all that OMA suggested and refusing whatever side offers this gentleman attempts to offer you along the way. And you are also correct that we are indeed fortunate in having so much experience here in the club to assist those of us who occasionally need such assistance!! |
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Location: Frozen Tundra of Minnesota | I just got off the phone with eBay (Thank You Arthur!)
I told them everything, and they said that they can not step in until the 4th, and once I escalate the Claim on the 4th, they will step in, send me a label to send the guitar back (I promised to put it in a box - the guy I talked to was horrified that he just sent it in the case, and said he did not think that USPS would honor his claim when he shipped it in just the case) plus that the case was part of the sale, and that he intentionally did damage when he shipped it without proper protection. He said that the Mold & Mildew was enough to get my money back, he couldn't believe that he had called it "his Baby" in the description, then sold it with mold & mildew, AND without a box to protect the case and the guitar!
All in all he was very nice, but they will not step in until the 4th. At which time, they will send me a shipping label, and once I send out the guitar, they will refund my money. So it might be a while.
He also told me that you are able to cancel your bid anytime up to 12 hours Before the Auction ends with no problem, and when there was less than 12 hours left, you would contact the Seller to cancel your bid. It was my understanding that your bid was a Binding Contract, and you could not cancel, and were bound by your bid. Apparently I was wrong about allot of things, but Thanks to everyone here, I am learning!!!
I think from here on out, I will only Adopt my Babies from my OFC Brothers. Much safer, more trustworthy!
I want to Thank You All for your help, advice and for helping me to stand up for myself for once. You have been invaluable to me! Thank You SO Much!!! Huge Hug to you ALL!!! |
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Location: Thredbo, NSW, Australia | FWIW. I recently had a claim on eBay, and once the required date had arrived they refunded the money into my Paypal account very quickly. I think it was a couple of emails and one or two days.
I could have then transferred the money from Paypal back into my bank account, but as I was buying something else I didn't bother.
All in all, I feel I was well looked after by eBay. |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Now for the rest of the story......
While Ebay does a great job of protecting the buyer the seller can certainly be screwed by an unscrupulous buyer with little recourse.
I listed a very nice Martin guitar with a buy it now.
The potential buyer contacted me and asked if I could do an overnight shipment if he purchased it.
I said sure and provided him with the cost of shipment. He used the BIN and I invoiced him for the guitar and the additional shipping charges. He paid immediately and everything was fine
The next morning I sent the guitar out. Later that night I received an email saying his wife found out about the purchase and went ballistic so he could not purchase it. I told him fine, no problem but he would be responsible for the shipping. When the package arrived the next day he refused shipment and the guitar was on its way back to me. I promptly refunded his money minus the shipping charges.
The following day I received notice from ebay that a claim had been filed against me for the shipping charges and they froze/took the funds. I contested and provided them with all the emails and information. After about a week, Ebay sided with me and released the funds.
The buyer then filed a complaint with his credit card company who promptly took the money back from ebay who then took the money back from me. I went to the credit card company who informed me that since the package was refused, the money was not owed to me....which we know is BS because somebody was going to pay the shipper.
Well, long story short, I got hosed for overnight shipping and return costs to the tune of over $200.
I guess the moral of this story is ALWAYS pay with a credit card cause then it doesn't really matter what ebay or paypal says. Your credit card company will do what they want and the seller will ultimately get screwed. |
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Location: Canada | stephent28 - 2015-03-02 3:54 PM I guess the moral of this story is ALWAYS pay with a credit card cause then it doesn't really matter what ebay or paypal says. Your credit card company will do what they want and the seller will ultimately get screwed. I have never sold anything on ebay but have done a few purchases, and so far I think had only one merchant who accepted a credit card for payment. |
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Location: Frozen Tundra of Minnesota | BanjoJ - 2015-03-02 2:51 PM
FWIW. I recently had a claim on eBay, and once the required date had arrived they refunded the money into my Paypal account very quickly. I think it was a couple of emails and one or two days.
I could have then transferred the money from Paypal back into my bank account, but as I was buying something else I didn't bother.
All in all, I feel I was well looked after by eBay.
Thank You Banjo! That is really good to hear! It gives me hope that it will be over soon!
I just want this over with! I have the guitar all ready to go out - I hate to let a Patriot go, but this poor thing is beyond repair or saving. It is a shame too, the area around the decal is the only area without cracks or gouges. |
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Location: Frozen Tundra of Minnesota | stephent28 - 2015-03-02 4:54 PM
...... Well, long story short, I got hosed for overnight shipping and return costs to the tune of over $200.
I am sorry that happened to you Stephent28, there are always just a few bad apples that ruin it for everyone. I have always had really good luck on ebay, but I have learned a valuable lesson now. Just one bad apple... |
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Location: Jet City | I hate selling on eBay. There are next to no protections for the seller. I'd give you some of my stories, but my blood'll start boilin' |
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Location: closely held secret | naellis58 - 2015-03-02 7:45 AM
I think from here on out, I will only Adopt my Babies from my OFC Brothers. Much safer, more trustworthy!
Not always the case, but usually. Even here there have been incidents.
It's always a good idea to get 2 or 3 opinions from other members before making a private purchase here if you've never dealt with the seller before.
Sorry about your bad experience on ebay. There are good and bad everywhere. Personally, I've had many more problems with buyers than sellers.
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | merlin666 - 2015-03-02 4:01 PM stephent28 - 2015-03-02 3:54 PM I guess the moral of this story is ALWAYS pay with a credit card cause then it doesn't really matter what ebay or paypal says. Your credit card company will do what they want and the seller will ultimately get screwed. I have never sold anything on ebay but have done a few purchases, and so far I think had only one merchant who accepted a credit card for payment. you can pay through paypal using a credit card. Much better than letting them have access to your bank account. |
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Location: Always beautiful canyon country of Utah | I have bought many antique popsicle sticks on ebay with nary a problem!! |
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Location: Frozen Tundra of Minnesota | No email from eBay today, so as per Arthur's advice, I called them.
Spent allot of time on hold, but that is okay, I was looking at Ovation pictures!
Finally after being switched around a couple of times, I got the "Escalation Department", who made a decision in my Favor, and emailed me the return address label to ship it back to the Seller.
She said that as soon as they showed the Tracking Number had been delivered, they would refund my money. So I have it all boxed up (PROPERLY!) and have scheduled a USPS pick up for tomorrow.
Thank You ALL for your help and guidance! I had no idea what to do, you guys are THE BEST!!!  |
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Location: Fitzwilliam, New Hampshire | I had an issue with a purchase on E-Bay and thanks to PayPal got my money back from a non-responsive seller! They get 2.9% +.30 of the sale (on the seller) but they can protect both buyer and seller in various situations. I've been a small volume but frequent E-Bay'er for some time and have not had any issues BUT the Caveat Emptor is knowing what danger signs to look for such as bad feedback, lacking details in the description, no pictures or good ones that represent the description, knowing what you're buying, and of course those that send you emails to skirt the process E-Bay has set up. E-Bay also had a lot of useful info on what you should do to protect yourself. |
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Location: Indiana | It's to your credit that you have insisted on boxing up this return correctly. I can't say I would have gone through that much care in this circumstance.
And, by the way, my mother's name is Nancy... so you already were high on my list. |
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Location: Frozen Tundra of Minnesota | Jonmark Stone - 2015-03-04 8:38 PM
It's to your credit that you have insisted on boxing up this return correctly. I can't say I would have gone through that much care in this circumstance.
And, by the way, my mother's name is Nancy... so you already were high on my list.
<3 <3 <3
Thank You Jonmark! I didn't do it for the fool, I did it for the Patriot, and the Respect it deserves, regardless of how that moron treated it. |
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Can I Vent????
