The doubler(s) on my 2078TX-5 is only under the immediate area around the epaulet holes.

This may be because the neck is glued on and doesn't need to be self-supporting like the bolt-on neck models.

Whoa! You don't waste much time, do you? (heh heh heh...)

The masking tape was probably a shim to make the neck fit right.

The routed bridge saddle slot was probably an attempt to lower the saddle height in response to the change in neck geometry that was raising the height of the action. This solution is not uncommon.

Personally, I would not attempt to re-use the old top. Besides being old and warped, it will be difficult to get it aligned which will make it harder to put in new purfling and binding.

I would guess that the excess epoxy on the kerfing was a result of a botched restoration rather than something done at the factory. The amount of epoxy between the top wood and kerfing has been pretty consistent on all three of the guitars I've got in my shop.

The US factory wasn't shy about using a lot of glue, which translated into excessive amounts of squeeze-out. But the actual glue joint thickness has been fairly consistent.

In contrast, the Chinese always seem to pay bonuses to their workers based on how little glue they use. The inside of my 2078TX-5 has little to no squeeze-out along the edge of the kerfing and binding. When I was building/flying model airplanes, this as a running joke. One of the things that always needed attention first was to reinforce the glue joints. Otherwise the model could and often did, disassemble itself in the air.

Like I say, personally, I would just plan to re-top the guitar using fresh wood and save the old top for reference for bracing & epaulet hole size/location.

Hi Arumako,

I don't think yours has a floating fretboard. Someone (OMA?) posted pics of one of his Elites with a floating fretboard a while ago after he'd taken off the neck and there's a pocket in the top and the fretboard extension sits on an extended support block that extends almost to the end of the fretboard extension. I don't see either one on your guitar. There's an article in Guitar Player magazine from 2005 that talks about it and the other new features of the LX series guitars. (See: Ovation LX Series)

Edit: I found a thread here on OFC that shows the floating fretboard. See: Tension Rod question

Elmer's glue dries clear or slightly translucent, so if the glue you're seeing on the braces is white, it's probably some sort of epoxy, like Hysol or possibly, polyurethane glue like Gorilla Glue.

I agree. I would use G-10 and Hysol to build up the sides of the bowl rather than try to take the high spots down. These two materials will give you something that's as strong and stable as the original material used. I think trying to take the sides down will be pretty difficult and will cause other problems, such as too big of a gap where the fretboard joins the top. Also, lowering the top will, in effect, raise the neck, which will also raise the action.

In looking at the pics of the cross-grain reinforcement, I don't think it's balsa. Balsa, like spruce, has a tight grain structure. The cross-grain wood looks to me like either basswood or maybe soft pine. One way to check if it's balsa is to try to make a splinter of a piece of it and see if it wants to pierce your skin. (gently, please... LOL!) Balsa is used in the entertainment industry for visual effects exposions because it won't splinter and break the skin like pine, etc.

You don't want to glue the heel to the body. Bolting it is plenty strong. If someone tried to glue the heel to the body, then they didn't know what they were doing. Hysol 9462 will bond all of those materials, but like I say, you don't want to glue the heel. The only part that should be glued is the fretboard extension to the top and even then, you only want to apply a thin bead around the edge to keep it stable. If you leave it unglued, the strings will have a dead sound when you fret them above the 14th fret.

Dan

It actually took a pretty long time to do, but the work was actually pretty easy...just needed patience. And the next pic might just make you want to kill me!

I know, I know, "O-Abuser"...please forgive me! So since she was bone dry and curling up at the sides, I decided to put her in an 80% humidity room. She's been there for 12 hours and...

She's flattening out! Whoa Cool! But alas, I've decided to take everybody's advice and go with a top change. One more dry spell and this top is going to crack like so many acoustic tops do...

My daughter made me promise to re-store this to the original black condition. She really likes the 1868 "-5" finish, and seems to be intent on using this guitar when I'm done so...

The original 1868-5 specs say the soundboard is made from AA Spruce. So, I checked out Stewmac's website and dreadnought size AA Spruce is going for a mind-boggling 20 bucks! No wonder why you all were saying, "Swap the top!" I must say, I am learning so much from this project, and I am just addicted to guitar restoration!

I thought GAS was the abyss, but the BFLG is the abyss within the abyss!

Howdy!

That's one of the great things about working on guitars, with a few exceptions, nothing is permanent. Most mistakes can be fixed, albeit with a certain amount of effort.

When I was gathering materials for my 1619, I bought Stewmac's cheap sound board to practice on. It's actually pretty nice wood, with good tap tones.

What I've learned about grading is that it has more to do with appearance than with acoustic qualities. The higher grades have grain that is tighter, straighter and is evenly spaced across the entire piece.

If you're going to paint your black, then you may as well get the cheap wood. In fact, if you're going to buy the cheap wood, order two sets while you're at it. This will give you something to practice on.

Here's a good site that shows step-by-step guitar building. While a lot of it is about building a wood box, the parts about joining the top wood, making and gluing the braces are applicable to the job at hand. (See: Hoffman Guitar Building)

Keep up the good work!

Dan

Thanks a bunch DanSavage. I will definitely get two sets of the AA Spruce StewMac soundboards to practice on. Actually, I was thinking of trying out the bearclaw spruce that you used on the 1619, or redwood (like Patch's or DVD's) beauties. The exotic woods are very tempting, but my daughter was unusually insistent; and this being my first complete guitar top build, I figured, I'd better take the conservative approach, and try more exotic stuff as I build experience!

@FlySig, yup, two tone wood suppliers around here. Gave them a call and found out they get their stuff from, guess who...? StewMac, and their imported AA spruce tops are 4 times the price! Ouch! I haven't read any bad reviews on those AA spruce tops; so I think, I'm going to go ahead and take the plunge.

Now, to order all the parts and wait...I'm hoping to finish the project before the year is out...

Anyway, thanks for all the valuable advice! I pray a very happy Thanksgiving for all of the BFLG and OFC folks out there!

I also wet the back a bit and put the sound board between some weights...

I learned that the paper towel and air pockets above and below the weighed down sound board was essential to ensure the wood dried out sufficiently. Since this top is now 26 years-old, I suspect it might be a little like DanSavage's torrefied tops. The thing is the top came out completely flat! So, since I had nothing to lose, I sanded the black residue from the top of the sound board as best I can, and used some Japanese Calligraphy ink called "sumi" (which is filled with minerals) to see if I can get a bit of a black wash effect on the sound board...

If I darken the edges with a solid black color , add the standard epis and clear coat it with polyurethane, this might turn out kinda nice! The neat thing is, now that the top is flat, it seems to fit the bowl much better than before! My daughter originally wanted this guitar when it was fixed, and asked that it stay black, but the long wait seems to have waned her interest; so I kinda have my sights set on a blackwash finish. Anyway, a little mishap has steered this 1868 Project in an interesting direction. Being a 26 year vintage, the sound board has excellent tap tone, and would certainly be worth re-using! Need to experiment more on blank wood to find the right black washing technique. Thanks for the tip FlySig!

No fancy balsa cauls for this 1868, but some shims and pads do nicely when the top is seperate from the bowl. Waited 48 hours and glued the sound board back to the bowl! YES!

For lack of wisdom intelligence or both, I'm resorting to some strange assembly techniques...a hybrid of rubber bands, clamps, weights and straps...

So far, things seem to be lining up really nicely; Since my daughter's lost interest in the color of this guitar (previously demanded the "-5" black finish), I've decided to try some ebonizing using Iron Acetate as a stain (often used when finishing furniture). The batch of iron acetate is about 2-weeks old now, and is a deep red rust color. When applied to the spruce, it should have a deep, deep interesting hue.

Wanted the epi's to be under the clear coat; so I'm planning on shallow routes to glue the epi's in place before a final rub on lacquer finish. The routed epi slots need to be completely flat; hence, the sound board was glued to the bowl before installing the epis. A lot of work left, but am very pleased with the progress made in the minimal time spent! Thanks for the inspiration Dan!

And 24 hours later, the Hysol is secure! Now is the time to trim the flashing! After 48 hrs. the glue is very hard and can be difficult to trim...

Everything is lined-up perfectly! Woohoo! Iron Acetate ebonizing in 24 hours!

Thanks Dan! So....this is what ebonized spruce looks like!

I really like it. As I'm sure most of you all in the BFLG know, ebonizing is basically iron acetate reacting with "tannins" that are naturally found in wood. Spruce is not really known for its tannin content, so treating the wood with super concetrated coffee or tea helps to darken the wood. It gives the wood that nice rustic "faux" look. One of the reasons for returning to the original sound board for this project is the tap tone. The two sets of new AA Sitka that I purchased from Stewmac were actually nice pieces, but the tap tone was just not the same - probably because this sound board from 1990 is 26 years-old and fully seasoned. Maybe similar to Dans torrefied sound boards?

However, because the spruce is 26 years-old, there is practically very little tannin content in the wood. For this project I brewed some super concentrated espresso and applied it to the sound board. After the espresso dried, the iron acetate was applied and the reaction was immediate. In the photo above, the sound board is still wet, and it should be a fair representation of what the guitar will look like after the final finish is applied. I'll let the sound board dry out completely for a week or more, then seal the stain before proceeding...

Was worried that mixing concentrated espresso with iron acetate (essentially steel wool melted in vinegar) would cause an unbearable odor; but alas, after keeping both in a sealed container for over two weeks, the odor was practically non-existent. Cool! 

Ken,

Thanks for the info about the staining process. It's always good to learn about new techniques. I'll give it a try on some scrap pieces of spruce I've got in the shop.

WRT the tap tones of the new wood, keep in mind that until the wood is jointed and thickness sanded you don't really get an idea of how it's going to sound. It changes again once the braces are glued to it.

No doubt the older wood is going to sound better than the new wood. But, until you've actually built the top, it's difficult to make a comparison between a fully-built top and bare stock.

Re-topping the few guitars I have done has given me a little (and only just a little bit) of insight into how much the tap tone can change as the top building process continues.

Thanks Dan & great question BCam. I'll closely monitor tap-tone changes in the build of each of the two AA Sitka bare stock that I bought. Interestingly enough, they both have different tap tones. This is my first time really even considering "tap-tone"; but it is a mysterious and wonderful component of guitar voicing. One of them will be used to re-top my work horse 12-string, and the other will be used to re-top my Kramer Ferrington fretless bass.

Gives me a deep appreciation for the folks at the Mother Ship who've consistently selected excellent sound board material. Even my 1861 (grade A Sitka) sounds amazing!

Thanks for mentioning that Dan, I didn't document the various samples that I practiced on, but it's really important. You could easily spill some iron acetate into the soundhole of the guitar and ruin the label forever. FWIW, I practiced ebonizing on rosewood, spruce, pine and maple BEFORE I took to the 1868!

I probably don't need to mention this, but my iron acetate is made from "000" grade steel wool placed in a jar of vinegar. Since, I'm in Japan, I use rice vinegar, but distilled vinegar is probably better for most applications because it is colorless. The chemical reaction between the steel wool and the acids in the vinegar create the acetate, but the reaction requires that the top of the jar be "Unsealed" to allow the gases to release; otherwise...EXPLOSION! I sealed the jar after the reactions settled and waited about two-weeks. Oh yeah, you should also wash your steel wool with unscented plain dish washing soap thoroughly before combining with vinegar. I don't know about the States, but in Japan most brands of steel wool have lots of oil residue.

Depending on the wood (tannin content) and the intensity of the stain desired, some folks dilute the acetate with water before application. Some of my sample woods turned deep amber (because of the rust particles and no coffee) while others just turned black...still others hardly changed colors or had different shades of black. Some came out splochy and messy. In any case, experimenting with this stuff is great fun!

Here's the top after drying over night...

I think I'm going to keep the epis on this 1868, but some variation in binding and purfling might be in order here! Woohoo!