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Posts: 2120
Location: Chicago | On the upside: In the entire wood forest, nothing comes close to Old Legends and Balladeers in volume, richness, and that special acoutic "O" magic. So if that's what you seek, keep the old gal and send her off to the SPA. I was blown away at what JB and the gang did for my 1117 ('74) a few years ago. They even did things I had not noticed or asked for (no charge). I got back from Mother a brand new guitar with just a bit of the old battle scars to prove it was the same axe. |
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April 2004
Posts: 13303
Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | File with Paypal...they give great protection to the buyer without requiring much if any proof. You will get your money back almost immediately.
Then let the seller pay you in advance to return the guitar. You should not be out a nickel for this kind of deception. |
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April 2006
Posts: 848
Location: Munich, Germany | Sorry to read, Serge.
One thing I see after reading the listing and answers of the seller: Honesty can be seen in different ways. He spoke of "perfect working condition", not perfect condition. Second, he did not answer the question for repairs/cracks. Might be a well trained PR-man.
So, you can't say he lied with words, he just held back the truth - and tricked you that way. But that's unworthy as well.
If it was me, I would send it back and get a refund. 450 USD is way too much for a guitar in that condition, and I wouldn't even think about sending it to the mothership. You would have rewarded the cheap seller then for his tricks and cheats.
I hope i made myself clear: Man, that was very hard to say in english, and after rereading my post twice it is still not perfectly said.
Kurt |
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November 2006
Posts: 3969
| Again, many thanks to all of you for your concern and advice. I've decided to pursue a refund rather than trying to restore this once beautiful beast. Here's the text of the message I sent to the seller:
Gus - I received the guitar yesterday, and I must say that I am shocked and disappointed at the condition. This item is significantly not as described in the listing; to wit: "It has very few scratches" - there are numerous deep gouges that penetrate the finish all the way to the wood; "Fret, Bridge, Neck etc. are perfect." - the neck binding is separating & part of the peghead (a part of the neck) was broken off and haphazardly re-glued, both of which are hardly "perfect"; the rosette is unglued and missing large sections of abalone underneath.
The only resolution for this issue is for you to refund the price and accept return of this guitar. Failing that, I will file a dispute with both eBay and PayPal. I await your response.
Sergio Caballero We'll see what happens, and I'll update here. Meanwhile, SWMBO says to go for this one . Another member here has already contacted me and offered me a spare electronics package should I wind up winning it.
Again, thank you all. This is really a great community. |
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July 2002
Posts: 1900
| Sergio,
Good decision, and excellent wording in your text. (But, I wonder if the seller is intelligent enough to understand it. :rolleyes: ) It's also very good advice to make him pay for returning it. He's already lost the sale and it will be his only chance to get his guitar back and avoid negative feedback. |
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March 2005
Posts: 12758
Location: Boise, Idaho | If your wife says to go for the other one, do what she says. That's one of the times when you have to respect the title of SWMBO.
I thought your response was appropriate. I agree with Kurt that the guy seemed to be very clever in his misleading responses. Hope it works out well for you. |
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Posts: 848
Location: Munich, Germany | Serge, sorry for a quick OT, but while I meet Mark in this post:
Mark, did you get my weather forecast?
Kurt |
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Posts: 863
Location: Central Florida | Wow, Serge, I'm so sorry this worked out the way it did. I was eagerly anticipating a glowing report from you (and I'm sure you were anticipating giving one) only to have it turn out like this. I feel for you bro. It's obvious your seller's objective was to deceive from the get-go, whether by comission or omission. Your wife's got the right idea: go for the other one and persue a refund on this one. For what the restoration would cost it's not worth it, IMO.
I'm bummed for ya... |
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July 2005
Posts: 3410
Location: GA USA | That's the kind of She that you don't mind obeying. And she makes a mean burger. Keep her. |
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November 2006
Posts: 3969
| Hey Jeff! Thanks for the sentiment, but now I'm more angry than bummed. Something will work out.
Best-case scenario is that numb-nuts seller refuses to refund, PayPal reimburses me anyway (which seems likely given some of the others' posts here) and goes after him, and I get to keep this one for my very first luthiery project. As an amateur wood-worker for many years I've always wanted to try my hand at luthiery.
I see your Black Beauty is still pretty reasonable, and it looks to be in really fine shape. Gawd, I hate those 9-day auctions tho! I'm pullin' for ya on this one, bro. |
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November 2006
Posts: 3969
| Originally posted by Captain_Lovehandles:
That's the kind of She that you don't mind obeying. And she makes a mean burger. Keep her. :D I intend to, Jas! |
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Posts: 7307
Location: South of most, North of few | MMMMMMMmmmmm, burgers! |
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December 2003
Posts: 1071
Location: Carle Place, NY | I disagree with seeking a full refund. As an owner of a factory re-furbished 1619 that started out a lot worse than this one, I am fairly certain that the top only needs to be re-finished. That should be about $400. Included in the price will be a new bridge and abalone rosette. Mine was sunburst, but I had the re-finish done in New England Burst and I couldn't be happier with the result.
The old 1619 CL's with the original truss rod necks are very special guitars. The other one that you're looking at has a Kamar bar neck. I'd keep this one but try to get a partial refund to compensate for the inaccurate description. The guitar is still worth $350-$400 as it is. Demand $100 back and if you get $50-$75, be happy.
It took the factory 3 1/2 months to fix mine, but that also included upgrading the electronics to the OP-Pro. That was two years ago and it cost $600. I've never regretted it and my 1619 is the one guitar that I would never sell.
I know I've posted these pics before but here they are again.
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March 2005
Posts: 12758
Location: Boise, Idaho | Kurt, I just caught your sidetrack. Yes, I got your weather forcast. Thanks. |
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Posts: 3410
Location: GA USA | But, Mitch, to me the broken ear is a near fatal flaw. |
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December 2003
Posts: 1071
Location: Carle Place, NY | Originally posted by Captain_Lovehandles:
But, Mitch, to me the broken ear is a near fatal flaw. My 1619 had a large ding on the edge of the headstock where the finish was gone and some of the wood was also. The factory fixed it and it is visible only on very close inspection. I'm sure that the factory can fix that wing and make it look fine. |
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June 2003
Posts: 1792
Location: Rego Park, NY, | g8r,
You could tell this person that you are going to send the case back with the guitar to him for a refund. But, instead of the guitar send him a gator from your neck of the woods and let the gator do the rest when he opens the case. ;) |
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January 2006
Posts: 2120
Location: Chicago | War story: In 1978 I lent my Legend to a friend. At a party someone STEPPED on the headstock and cracked it clean off (1117 was on a bed). The Mothership fixed that with such astonishing woodcraft that I could hardly find the glue-seam. I agree with Mitch: the SAP option is not to be understimated.... |
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March 2002
Posts: 15664
Location: SoCal | Mitch keeps posting those pics and I keep drooling on my keyboard. What a beautiful guitar..... |
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Joined:
November 2006
Posts: 3969
| Here's numb-nuts' reply to my request for a refund and return of the guitar:
The description on this guitar was in no way deceptive. I specifically quoted that it had scratches. This is why the reserve price was set so low ($75). There were 10 bids on this item and I gave everyone who asked any questions regarding the guitar feedback. The guitar (as I said in one comment) is in perfect working condition. I used it for studio work for many years as is.
With that being said, I will not issue any refunds. You are free to complain to ebay, however you will see that my selling history with them has no negatives, and bidders who have won have always had positive feedbacks about me. Guess it's off to PayPal dispute resolution next. Unfortunately, eBay won't let me file a dispute until 10 days after the close of the auction (next Tuesday). |
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February 2005
Posts: 11840
Location: closely held secret | He didn't just say it had scratches. He said "It has very few scratches". Totally different intent, definitely deceptive. |
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Joined:
November 2006
Posts: 3969
| Let's see how this one works out. I just won the auction. It can't be any worse than the one I have now. I was still waffling about putting in a bid up to half an hour ago, and SWMBO (bless her heart) insisted I try for it. She says I can always try to get a carved TRC from Mother and fake it.
Right now I'm almost breaking even with the impending sale of my 1617 . I filed a claim with PayPal, so we'll see how that goes.
Wish me luck, guys! |
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April 2004
Posts: 13303
Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Good luck! |
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May 2003
Posts: 4389
Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | Good Luck.
The guy's a cr@phead. |
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May 2003
Posts: 4389
Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | Moreover, he lied. It is not perfect. Therefore, immediately freeze the payment to him, file a dispute, do not wait the 30 days since it's obvious it's a waste of time. |
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1619 Arrived Today - Caveat Emptor!
