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Location: Des Moines, Iowa | Right on, StandingO - everyone should think and believe that their guitar IS the WORLD'S BEST GUITAR, because it is... the world's best guitar for them right now. I know my new Elite 1868 is the WORLD'S BEST GUITAR for me right now.
FYI - Parts of my reply here involves the same users, but one additional thread (1617-1 Legend). So, thanks for sharing GAS or what the A and S stand for, since I knew what it meant and what the G stood for, though I do think that replacing Guitar with Gear can insure even greater obsessive acquisitional endeavors.
Some of you long time members might get a kick out of this from me, the SillyLittleBoy newbie (I mean, what is age? Cause I'm not like into time, man) - I just figured out what OHSC stands for... I got the O right away, cause I noticed it was listed in the description for a lot of older Ovations, so I though... "Original" and for a few minutes (okay... weeks) I thought it had something to do with the electronics....maybe? Then one day it just clicked, OOOOOO.... "Original Hard Shell Case," duh!
Oh and Tony, that's not bragging, dude... that's awesome and if I had that collection of guitars, I'd most definitely be desireth of speaking about it in places where doing so would not put my home at risk for a home invasion. I'm not sure why I never got GAS before, but it would seem that I've been like some gypsy musician or a travelling minstrel or balladeer (if you will) with room for only one axe on his back. I often wish I still had a few of the blades I've played and traded over the years.
Ironically right now with my Ovation acoustics acquisition obsession (loved the Ovation acoustics since the first time I saw someone play one)... the one guitar from my past I kind of wish I still had is actually a vintage Matrix 1837 12-string that I thought was a cheap Ovation knock-off and it wasn't until years into this thing called "The Internet" that Ovation's own website revealed to me it's pedigree. So, I guess you could say that was my first Ovation and I didn't even know it WAS one, though I was drawn to it's pretensions of such. It would just be an interesting vintage piece of more sentimental and variation of models type than true value. I think someone once said when asked about price of an Ovation, "It's worth what someone who wants it bad enough will pay for it."
I've begun a slow but steady obsessive pursuit that appears to be picking up GAS as I gather more gear, which does include a couple of keyboards on a stacked stand, a Casio CTK700 that was given to me by a good friend who never used it (like new) and a vintage Technics PCM Synth SX-KN470 that I traded some cheap (but good) one-channel tube mic preamp and a couple of cheap mics to some guy who answered my Craig's List ad trying to see the pre-amp for like $40. Then I found the 2001 USA-made Legend 1867 (black) at a pawn shop and it was in PRIMO condition. I read the marked price wrong, so ended up negotiating a great price cause I was low balling him based on what I thought said $425 when it was actually $475. I got it for $425 - no case.
Well, since my 1867 Legend ssb acquisition last fall, I've now gotten my first Elite - a 1991 year 1868 model sunburst that is in excellent shape and is THE WORLD'S BEST GUITAR for me... right now. It was just delivered from a shop down in Florida last Thursday and I've already got my sights on a vintage Pacemaker 1615 12-string for only $200 with only finish cracks according to the description, which also mentions that it comes with OHSC, but I think I've got some spray that'll clear that right up.
Of course I do have to blame most of you here in this group, because listening to you, checking out your fine collections and specific guitars AND your very helpful nature with imparting the wisdom of Ovation that you've acquired over the years, well... it's only putting GAS on my GAS or firing up my GAS or something like that.
So.. THANKS!
Edited by SillyLittleBoy 2014-02-23 12:03 AM
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Location: Phoenix AZ | 
The 12-String is SOLD. Thanks |
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Location: Muenster/Germany | Is the wonderful 1681 still available? |
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Location: Muenster/Germany | ...and if so, do you send to Germany? Do you accept paypal? |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Yes, the 1681 is available. Please check your PM for details. THANKS |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | 
The 1681WT 6-string and the 2085 12-string are both SOLD.
2081 cutaway 6-string is still available.
THANKS |
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Location: Muenster/Germany | I am the *PROUD* owner of the gorgeous 1681 WT now and I must say that the whole transaction was perfect, thank you for all.
I already have 2 Adamii but the woodtop model sounds completely different, very smooth, not so aggressive and ridiculously easy to play. The sound projection of this guitar makes you believe that the notes appear not inside but shortly on front of the guitar, amazing. I wish I had the chance to play the 12string one day...
Greetings from Germany. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | OK folks, let's make a deal on the cutaway and close this thread once and for all !!!
$2399. + S/H. Email or PM me and let's get this done. |
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Location: Muenster/Germany | AstroDan - 2014-02-17 2:18 PM
Oh. My. God!
Why, oh why do I come in here?
That top HB is the Adamas of my dreams.
How do these wood-topped A's compare with a "standard" A?
Sound, playability, timbre, depth etc?
I needed 7 breaths to decide, now the 1681 WT is mine.Now I can answer your questions.
I have an Adamas 2081 and an Adamas 1688 12string to compare, but the nearest model concerning construction is the 1718 Elite.
The carbon top Adamas has more power, more bass but must be played with concentration, if you play too hard, the guitar gets..I don´t know how to say..angry, like bad solidstate overdrive.
Both of them do so.
The Elite and the WT feel and play like any Ovation woodtop-guitar, with little lower power but more dynamics towards the high end.
The WT has a very unique sound. Imagine the tone itself not coming from inside the bowl but from shortly outside the soundports. Take the Elite and add more midrange, cut a little high frequencies and turn up gain about 10%, that´s the WT. The single Notes are very smooth and clear like a piano, the lack of basses is no problem, because the voice of the instrument all in all is nicely balanced, and you can easily emphasize single notes within playing along.
It´s not love at first play, I had to approach the guitar slowly to value the great potential.
Worth every penny!
The only thing I have to complain about both of my newer Adamas ist the flat neck angle.The older models have a slight negative neck angle and thus the string pressure on the bridge is higher and the dynamics of the instrument is much better. Is is a great difference between a string angle of 45 degrees or 20.
The second is that in so many Ovation guitars the drilling hole for the pickup cable is very big and sometimes halfsize under the contact point of the low E string, so was it on the WT guitar and the 2081.The fix: Remove the plastic shims and build a complete exact matching shim of the top-wood, then drilling a smaller hole just exact like the cables.The response of the low E was absolutely better after that, but this should not be my business but the one of the guitar builder, I think.
Anyway, my Ovation guitars are highly appreciated implements for my musical expression and if not the best, the best playable guitars of all times.
I had quite a number of them, some sold time after time...I should have kept them all. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Glad you like the guitar !!! I had no doubts that you would.
The WT Adamas is a very unique instrument. Not quite a typical wood top guitar and not quite a carbon topped adamas guitar. I guess with the recent Fender announcements we will not see many more of these and the WT Adamas will go down as a wonderful and unique product that was a fleeting moment in Ovations history. Glad this one ended up in good hands.
Interesting info about the PU hole in the bridge. I never considered such a thing but it makes perfect sense how this would effect the tonality. Thanks for sharing that great tip. On the string break angle I am in total agreement with you. Unfortunately this is pretty common on Ovations and in part due to the string through bridge design which by its very nature forces the string to a straighter angle with the saddle. The carved Adamas bridge is even worse. Most Ovation fans don't want to hear it, but this is the very reason that pinned bridges are superior and used on virtually every top end guitar. I was glad to see Ovation finally go with a pinned pridge on the LT-60.
Any, I do hope that this WT Adamas brings you much joy !!!! |
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Location: Muenster/Germany | Any experience with the LT 60? Looks phantastic. Every now and then there´s one one ebay...but no model to test in Germany.Ok, I didn´t test the WT either... |
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Location: Jet City | I don't understand how bridge pins can help with the Ovation saddle as is. Like lipstick on a pig. Pins with a nice bone saddle, now I can see that making a difference.
But, i haven't tried one so I'm just speculating.
I do know I like the pinned Taks over the non-pinned ones. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | It's simple geometry ... No Ovation string through bridge can do THIS:
This kind of break angle puts a tremendous downwards force on the saddle and efficiently transmits the string vibrations to the guitar top. This example photo happens to be a Collings. Hmmm ... think maybe the break angle has a little bit to do with how it sounds?
Contrast that to a typical Ovation with very shallow break angle, so less pressure on the saddle. Couple that with the fact that 97% likely it's an acoustic electric with the saddles bedded in silicone and sitting on plastic shims and you start to wonder how does any vibration get to the soundboard at all. Throw in a Celebrity plywood top and, well ... the whole thing just goes to hell.
Not trying to disrespect Ovation, and there is a LOT more to a great guitar than just break angle. But certain aspects of geometry and physics are simply not debatable.
Edited by Standingovation 2014-04-26 5:16 PM
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Location: SoCal | Ovations were designed as a working man's guitar, for the guy with the gig. Changing a string easily was probably a priority. What's amazing to me is how well Ovations (and Adamii) do work with the shallow angle...... |
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Location: Canada | Standingovation - 2014-04-26 5:13 PM
It's simple geometry ... No Ovation string through bridge can do THIS:
This kind of break angle puts a tremendous downwards force on the saddle and efficiently transmits the string vibrations to the guitar top.
I am not an engineer or physicist, but a picture alone does nothing to convince me that a "break angle" has anything to do with force exerted on the saddle. If the string behaved like a spring, it would actually tend to straighten out more at higher angles and exert LESS force on the saddle and particularly would be more lose at the nut! Do you have any references to substantiate your assertions? |
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Location: Hot Springs, S.D. | I've always wondered about that myself. While the break angle does put more downward pressure on the saddle, the ball end underneath the bridge is putting tremendous UPWARD pressure on the bridge. I would think the two would cancel each other out. Don't know because I'm not an engineer or physicist either so maybe I'm wrong. |
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Location: Jet City | I guess my point isn't about the break angle, it's about the fact that the saddles are still plastic, sitting on top of gushy silicone type stuff. I think it would have made a more significant impact had they changed the saddle and done a more traditional piezo style under saddle pickup. |
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Location: Canada | CanterburyStrings - 2014-04-26 7:55 PM
the ball end underneath the bridge is putting tremendous UPWARD pressure on the bridge.
Well the ball end also goes through the soundboard, so there would actually be less pressure on the bridge than with an ovation where bridge has to take ALL the pull, and therefore we see the detached O bridge (which I had to experience myself). The myth really is that the acute angle causes more contact between the string and the saddle which then results in more effective transmission of vibrations and more resonance of the soundboard. |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Wow... And we have been fooled by Ovation all of this time?
I don't like bridge pins because I have had them pop-out on me.
(I understand that is my own fault for poor installation)
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Location: Phoenix AZ | merlin666 - 2014-04-26 6:37 PM
I am not an engineer or physicist, but a picture alone does nothing to convince me
Well said.
merlin666 - 2014-04-26 6:37 PM
Do you have any references to substantiate your assertions?
Approximately F^2 = 2(w^2)cos(180-a)+2(w^2)
where:
F = the downward force on the saddle (which also equals the upward force causing the deflection)
w = string tension
a = break angle, where 0 equals no break
w (tension) is actually a nasty little equation which includes string gauge. For for all practical purposes you can use the equation above and be pretty darn close.
As an example, here's a break angle of 20 degrees. The force F (the vector going upwards and to the left) is 34Kg
Here's a break angle of 45 degrees. You can see that the force F is now 76Kg
Again, there is a LOT more to a guitar than break angle. But it would be hard to argue that steeper isn't better (within reason). As always, that's just my opinion and everyone is welcome to have theirs.
Dave
Edited by Standingovation 2014-04-26 10:05 PM
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Location: Sydney, Australia | The issue as I see it (struggling to remember Physics A01 from 1978) is that beyond a certain amount of force which is needed to make good contact, more is unnecessary. For a string to have poor connection with the bridge it would almost jump off the saddle while vibrating. As long as the break angle exerts enough force to keep the downward pressure high enough during an attempted jump, I would expect no difference at higher pressures.
One way to test this would be to press down on top of the string, directly above the saddle, with a hard object like a screwdriver and see if the tone/pickup response improves. |
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Location: SoCal | Could always use dict tape over the saddle, replace the shims, or go to mediums...ignore anything I said if you like how your Ovation plays (I do). |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Tony sums it up well: No need to defend your guitars sound, looks, playability, price, etc. to anyone other than yourself. |
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Location: Steeler Nation, Hudson Valley Contingent | Hm, this thread didn't take a hard left so much as a complete u-turn eh? Similar to what Dave said, break angle to me is just another one of those countless details that CONTIBUTE to the overall tone of the guitar. It's neither worse nor better, just different. Years back on another forum, I explained that to me, the materials for the bowls on Ovations are yet another variation of hard, dense, sonically-appropriate material for the soundboard to bounce soundwaves off of; which is the exact same function as any other soundwood used in backs. And just like personal preferences in any brand for using rosewood, mahogany, etc., some people like the tone and others don't. I can appreciate that break angle makes a difference, although sometimes I wish I didn't. If all these design aspects led to guitars that all sounded the same, I wouldn't own so many guitars, my checking account would probably look somewhat more robust, and my wife wouldn't roll here eyes in such a patient, resigned fashion every time she caught me looking at for sale ads online.  |
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Location: Utah | Regardless of break angle, the string tension creates torque within the bridge structure. This torque creates a downforce on the front of the bridge and an upforce on the rear of the bridge. The top of the saddle becomes the fulcrum point as far as the string forces are concerned, with the height of the saddle from the bottom of the bridge becoming the lever arm.
Strings vibrate in 3 dimensions. Up, down, sideways, and length (tension). There is energy in the waves of vibration, all of which must be absorbed either by the air or by the guitar structure. If by the air, the energy becomes sound. If by the guitar, it becomes mechanical vibrations which either move air or are absorbed within the material of the guitar (becoming heat?). Ergo, the sound depends on the efficiency of the body of the guitar, not on the attachment method of the strings to the guitar.
I think there is a very complex mechanical system at play with the bridge, saddle, strings, materials, and geometry all involved in transmitting vibrational energy to the guitar top.
Might a taller saddle, regardless of break angle, create a longer lever arm to transmit energy to the top? Might the perceived difference in tone with a taller saddle be a result of installing a taller saddle, not the result of the change in break angle?
What if the strings were attache to the top of a bridge with only a screw driven tightly down through the ball end? Thus there would be zero break angle, yet the firm attachment of the string would result in all the vibrational energy being transmitted through the bridge to the top of the guitar.
Having played one of the Wood Top Adamas cutaway guitars at the roadshow a few years ago, it seemed that the engineers at the factory calculated the right vectors and masses to come up with a GREAT guitar! It was the ultimate wood topped O/A in terms of tone, playability, and craftsmanship.
Edited by FlySig 2014-04-27 8:54 AM
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FS: ADAMAS WOODTOP GUITAR COLLECTION
