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Location: undisclosed | Yes I learned early on that finger picking works on anything with strings...didn't know Jerry used it till I saw video of him sitting in with the Dregs. For any instrument I'd suggest listening to other instruments for ideas on phrasing. As a violinist it can help prevent the Ponty/Goodman clone syndrome or favorite guitar player reflex approach.
One thing I've heard in some new jazz players over the last few years is a careful assimilation of traditional jazz language , played with careful execution. I'm not hearing a new approach but a sanitized rendering of old ideas packaged in a "traditional" format.. For me what is missing there is the development of their own phrasing and note choices. Scripted versus spontaneous....Marketing a historical approach can be easier because of the defined boundaries but the great stuff is timeless.....Now to chain up my inner music nerd and practice....Zappa had it right, "Shut up and play your....."
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Location: Chicago | By the way, Cavalier, where can I hear your music? I first took notice of David LaFlamme on the classic "It's a Beautiful Day" LP. Then in 1970 "My Goal's Beyond" blew my mind: the combination of Liebman, Goodman, Haden, Cobham and McLaughlin was cosmic. I've been a great fan of jazz-rock-bg fiddle ever since. Zack Brock, of course, has made quite an impression lately, but Jerry Goodman will always be my favorite violin soul. I feel so grateful to have met him and worked with him. It helped that he's local (Highland Park) and is a friend of our studio guru, Craig Williams (Dr. Caw). And as for pizzicato, you might like this video of his: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDy7mf4hAOM
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Location: undisclosed | You'll have to wait for the spring 2014 release for current music.....The most known person I've played with was Scott Cossu towards the end of his Windham Hill days. All that was live, I really think he wanted a sparing partner for practicing. Lots of progressive rock, R&B, Jazz fusion, reggae,folk,celtic, country and hippy rock in Seattle and the NW and Bluegrass in Canada up into the 1990s. Pre internet really so nothing much on digital. In this easy age people forget how expensive a top line tape studio was.Since 1999 I've been a single Dad without the time to get out and play but have kept playing and done private shows I can schedule. I've opened for lots of people in the NW while playing in bands including Robin Trower, Blue Oyster Cult, Flock of Seagulls, Night Ranger , April Wine etc.....
I've never heard of Zack Brock and didn't hear any La Flamme till really late. I've listened to most of the fusion and jazz players including the guys like Venuti from way back but there are probably many current people I've never heard of. Like I mentioned though, as a violinist I don't really listen much to violinists! I try to play avoiding the stereo types and found it easier to find my own way.
I'd ask how much Jerry charges but that would be rude....I'll have to watch the video when I get around high speed internet but I'm pretty decent. I avoid the awkward classical technique. Really though violin and my bona fides seem out of place on a Ovation forum (I rescued a nylon string) and I don't usually post a bio. I enjoy playing Music for the Moment, improvising and layering instruments, after all every day is a new one so why not the tunes? I'd have more than I could ever play back if I recorded it all. Condensing such a approach into a commercial format is challenging. It is great to encounter someone who likes electric violin, I'm glad Jerry is playing and that you've gotten to work with him, its always a blast to be able to play with people you've been a fan of. |
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Location: Chicago | A fascinating journey, Cav, thanks. As a father of two girls, I can relate to the constraints of parenting: music has been a joy but NOT a career for me. And you're certainly right about the "easy" digital age in terms of recording. We did the entire CD for under 10K and Jerry was a small fraction of that. He joined us more out of friendship for Craig than any obvious gain. (He put a lot of time and heart into it: the charts I prepared were literally re-written.) Biography and bona fides? All in all, I think a little along those lines is good: the human touch, beyond mere shop-talk and banter. |
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Location: undisclosed | When I was playing with Scott Cossu we mainly played private parties and shows in homes and bed and breakfasts etc....Not only was the food better but the people seemed more in tune. Around then I worked with Improv theater groups playing improved preshow, show and sound effects and set change music. I'd invite musician friends to participate and we'd have a blast. I also worked for art gallery shows and openings as performance art. These things helped generate ideas for performing off the beaten track playing outside conventional formats.
One thing I'd like to mention to people developing their skills is not to be scared or intimidated about playing or being compared to other players. Music should be about self expression. Only you can play for yourself, even if it is one note. Music is art and communication though people tend to stage competitions around it. In Classical and traditional contests the results can be judged like the moves in a skating competition because they are renderings of set pieces. In learning to solo you are learning to express yourself-nobody can do it for you, interchangeability doesn't work here.
I once knew someone who purported to be Mark O'Connor's cousin who thought I'd be freaked out to jam with him. I'd hand him my schedule, smile and tell him Mark could sit in whenever he wanted. Of course he never came but if he had I would have had fun. What better way to get more experience? Playing bluegrass they introduced me as a jazz fiddler to allow for my at times unconventional approach.
You can learn something from everything and everyone. Once I was warming up for a Seattle show by playing to some homeless people on the street outside a dive downtown. I was playing hot, esoteric noodling when a old bag lady came up to me and asked if I could play any real violin! For her that meant Bach and damned if I didn't do my best to make her happy before the band dragged me in worried I'd get mugged before the show.
Moral of the soloing story?...... Fear not, fun will follow. |
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Location: undisclosed | Update. I watched the video and there is no doubt. Jerry Goodman sounds more like Jerry Goodman than I do. This is as it should be....There is also no doubt that I "pizzacato" far more complicated things than that but I suspect Jerry can too. I started years ago when as a violin playing kid I started teaching myself guitar on a old Stella. I applied things back and forth and suspect Jerry started the same way. I almost drove my High School orchestra teacher nuts playing that way.... I also use distortion and wolf tones at times but do sound like myself. That is as it should be too.....
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Location: Chicago | What are "wolf tones"? Never heard that one... |
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Location: Chicago | Pizzicato: I had no idea as a kid that there was a place for it in rock. Then I heard this (at the 1:50 mark). You know it well, I'm sure, but it still sounds great to me: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8Fboivna0o
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Location: undisclosed | Wolf tones are the sound you get playing near the bridge. Digging deep with the bow helps. You know, this stuff works both ways, for those who don't remember watch Led Zeppelin and get a bow and Les Paul.....
I'll have to watch the post later, yes I live in the sticks....but I play with one too so it all works out....
I play a midi violin and found Pizzcato convenient for some triggering so I have additional incentive. |
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Location: undisclosed | You should ask Jerry about that solo, it almost sounds like he is using a pick which would be another transfered technique. Mark Woods does 2 hand stuff, hammer ons etc...on his fretted "violins". Technically they would be considered electric viols because of the frets. To me that loses the great things you can do being fretless. If I want fretted techniques and picking in a violin range I pull out the mandocaster. |
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Location: undisclosed | Tried to post a picture....
Edited by Cavalier 2013-05-18 10:03 AM
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Location: undisclosed | To bring the thread back to guitars and soloing would be to call Jerry's approach finger picking which it is. The last example could have been done that way using left hand pull offs (Violinists might say left hand pizzacato). Hammer ons don't work well on violins because there are no frets to ring out the notes.
So does the technique dictate the notes? If you are fingerpicking and comping would you choose different notes than when soloing with a pick? How about 2 handed? Kaki's wild slap and scratch moves? I think for most people the answer is technique does influence note choices and is a valid approach to taking things in different directions. |
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Location: Chicago | Good point. Hiromi (DownBeat cover a few months ago) makes exactly the same point. She says she listens intently to other instruments because their physical layout leads the player to very different lines. That's why guitar players who ONLY listen to guitar, only really LIKE guitar music tend to be pretty limited in what they do. Or violin players who ONLY listen to violin players etc. It creates a "ghetto" of sorts limited by what is easy and immediately accessible on your particular axe. I recall playing with a pianist and asking him to rapidly "slide" a static chord "shape" around various roots (like we do easily on guitar). He said it was very hard for him! Gotta think about it for a minute.... |
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Location: Chicago | PS "Who is Hiromi?" Simply... a phenomenon! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfAqWdxSJ9Q
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Location: undisclosed | If she chewed a toothpick she could cut down on the open mouth flying insect hazard. Sort of stage presence thing that can help when gigging past the age of 40......I hadn't heard of her before, be good to see her take the synth farther.
Edited by Cavalier 2013-05-19 4:03 PM
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Location: undisclosed | Pianos are a challenging instrument. They are designed to produce a uniform sound regardless of the skill of the player. When you hit a key, the sound is the same whether you can play at all or are a virtuoso. Elements of soloing include note selection-harmonic and melodic,dynamics, tone-including sounds, pitch, rhythm and meter and timing-including rests. With a guitar you can use all of the elements but a piano gives up tone and pitch right off the top. To achieve a expressive performance (not counting stage visuals) the other elements must be used to compensate. Hiromi in the clip I watched has really impressive technique and speed.. She hits the notes with the precision of a Swiss watch and the speed of the Autobahn. Right in the center of the beat showing the results of years of practice. Interestingly though, timing in jazz rewards playing with the beat, hitting before or after creates syncopation and can heighten expression of a line. A valuable tool of the pianist or other soloist trying to create lyrical lines. Everybody needs to watch this one , flatpicking champions can learn from Charlie Christian "breathing" like a horn.
For the pianist/keyboardist a synthesizer allows you to add the missing elements to emulate the way other instruments can change the tone and pitch. There are the obvious pitch and modulation controls but after those are touch sensitive keys that can have parameters set to velocity and after touch, varying a sound by changing how you lean on key after striking can add subtle expression. Sometimes people from other than piano trained backgrounds can take advantage of these features more easily because they are already used to shaking and shimmying the notes. Guitar synths have come a long way...
To play like a horn or sing like a voice you still need to approach the beat in an elastic manner. Note choice is a easy way to get out of the "box" letting you define a line by the sounds as well as the "rules". All good fun, the learning never stops and your ears should be the first thing to use. Stage moves can emphasize "events" but the sonic connection should speak for itself. Like breaking the eggs for the omelet taking risks can be rewarded. Whenever I really crash and burn I remind myself there are no wrong notes, just ones waaay outside and try to bring things home next time.
Edited by Cavalier 2013-05-21 10:36 AM
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Location: Chicago | Then there is the overall "design" of a solo. Are you gonna just shred for excitement and rhythmic impression, be methodical, or tell a story? Early McLaughlin was an example of he former (Jerry too). Oliver Nelson ("Stolen Moments" is a cool method player, while players like Trane or Derek Trucks can really tell a story. A solo really reveals about the spirit behind the instrument. |
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| I'm lead guitar in my band, so I'll attempt to answer. For years I was trying to be flashy,'plugging in as many notes as possible. Now that I've grown up, I approach soloing on a song-to-song basis. I play what I think fits. Fortunately, most people in our audience agree. I know that's kind of vague, but that'sthe best way I can describe it. |
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Location: undisclosed | That's a great answer paulramon. Every song is different so why should you approach the solo the same way? There is no right or wrong answer for any of these questions, some reflect on the spirit behind them more than anything else. Sticking to any one approach can lead to a paint by numbers feel. Flash can be useful and exciting too, used well to add contrast. It is easy to start over thinking what comes down adding feeling. All the notes in the world can't add soul but one note can let you express yours.
Edited by Cavalier 2013-05-23 9:25 PM
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Location: Chicago | I'll find that a cool chord will suggest a direction for "noodling around." Here I strum a basic B (with added notes that give an "altered sound" This created a mood which was fun to follow: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3G3zVAqwW8
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Location: Fort Worth, TX | All I can offer came from a recent GC experience. There was just me and one other guy in the acoustic room. He told me a $300 Alvarez hanging on the wall at my knees was the best sounding guitar in the place. When I began strumming chord progressions he would instantly add a blistering lead to what I was playing. After a few progressions I stopped and asked him "how do you get to a point of bring able to do what you're doing?". He said "learn your scales inside out". I gave dwgpreacher a copy of an obscure but highly sought after early manual on everything there is to know about scales. I'm expecting the next time he comes to stay at my house for a visit that he will be capable of doing what the guy in GC did! The manual is a magazine format that I can't remember the name of but dwgpreacher could tell ya. There is an updated version of it that is still available and I think has a dvd accompaniment tracks for practice. |
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Location: Orlando, FL | 50% of my lead playing comes from trying to play what I hear in my head. I seem to have a running soundtrack most of the time there, so I obviously don't do much thinking! A lot of times I'll realize a melody, or even just a run or lick, is spinning through my head. If I'm lucky, I have a guitar handy and I'll pull the music out of my head. I usually record my ideas on my zoom H3 if it's handy, or my cell phone, so I can remember it and add it to my vocabulary, or use it as a basis or part of a song. Fortunately, I work at home and have a guitar handy most of the time, but if I don't, I'll pull out my phone and record myself singing the melody so I can remember it.
The other 50% of the time I use the old trusty pentatonic minor scale as a starting place, then look for ways to add notes from other scales, neighbor tones, finding unusual intervalic movements, or outlining cool voicing of chords that fit.
I love to listen to horn sections and try to pick out the chordal movement and harmonies they are creating. Although I find it very hard, I also love to try to figure out what a piano player is doing sometimes. I love listening to Billy Payne of Little Feat, Check Level from the Allman Brothers and Lyle Mays who is Pat Metheny's cohort. They are amazingly inspiring!
If I am recording I really try to build a lead that I can repeat every time. That's hard for me, because almost every time I play something, I think to myself, "hey, this part might be cooler if I did this instead of that!" It's really hard for me to stick to one version of a solo, because I always want to try variations to see if i can improve it.
Another thing I really enjoy doing is, every time I pick up my guitar, I try to empty my head (an alarmingly easy task for me!) and play some combination of notes or chords I have never played before. The trick here is to not think too much, just play. This really helps push me in new directions.
This has been a great thread, thanks for bringing it up dobro! |
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Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | I agree with Designzillla about hearing what is in your head. One of Matt Smith's excellent tips was to sing what you want to play. If you can hear a lead riff or line in your head, then you can sing it, and if you can sing it, you should be able to play it (according to Matt). That made a lot of sense to me, so I worked hard on this and finally reached the point where I knew the fret board well enough to play just about whatever I could sing. I didn't purposely attempt to learn the scales, but it happened somewhere along the way. My next test is to learn multiple note lead lines. I marvel how some can do this so effortlessly. The trick seems to be to play multiple lower strings in the upper frets. So much to learn, so little time. |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | I have little to contribute to this thread, but something the Professor just said was similar to what my guitar teacher has been saying. I have learned a bunch of little licks or phrases, but now the task is to take phrases and make them into sentences. Then I assume we will take the sentences and turn them into a story, but I'm a long way from that yet. |
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Location: Chicago | Though not great Zappa fan, I find his lead playing lyrical and soulful. Like a cool drink of water in a desert of meaningless shred:
From "SHUT UP AND PLAY YER GUITAR (II)":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zE-yb8dCLo |
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How do YOU play a lead?
