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Location: Flahdaw | Fender probably doesn't (and shouldn't) care what 98% of us on this forum think. They need to care what 15 to 30 year olds think. |
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Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | I agree with Dave to some extent. Bring back the EA Viper line with modern upgrades, maybe add a magnetic pick-up with the VXT blend control. Another area where Ovation/Adamas tends to corner the market is in their SSB acoustic electrics. Has any other manufacturer produced shallow bodied acoustic electrics in the volume and over the years like Ovation? Of course, the problem with this is that they're really best for live performers which may limit their appeal to strictly home players. |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | darkbarguitar - 2012-10-10 7:46 AM
Fender probably doesn't (and shouldn't) care what 98% of us on this forum think. They need to care what 15 to 30 year olds think.
Maybe the scariest thing Bob has ever said. Fender would need to get into the acne medicine, smart phone or video game business.
You guys were really working on this when I was listening to Ben Stein last night. I don't have a lot of faith in what 15 to 30 year olds think, if anything, but they do seem to stand in line to spend money on the latest toy. I don't have any good ideas for Fender to sell to that market. Miles' ideas might be the closest, but when Ovation came out with the iDea, I thought it was something the kids would love, but my kid and her friends were totally bored with it. They didn't like the guitar, but probably would have liked the preamp in a traditional Ovation, like a sunburst Balladeer.
I also loved the VXT, but it died fast. It was poorly marketed and might not have fit the market. It's a great tool for someone who wants one guitar to do two things. But no stage performer would use it to show off to the market, because performers always have more than one guitar. They don't need a hybrid. So no kid is going to see a VXT being used on stage and decide he needs one like that guy.
OK. I've got nothing positive so far. Here's more--stop making Fender acoustics. They did nothing for the company. Focus on Guilds and Ovations. Stick with the lower end Celebrities to get the kids started on some branding. You have to change the idea that a kid with a Celebrity is going to save money to upgrade to some other brand like a Taylor. Get the Custom Legends, Elites and Adamases into some performers hands, even if they're Country performers, so the kids start thinking they'll trade up their Celebrities for a Custom Legend. Unfortunately, like Slipkid said, people spend more time listening to stuff on their phones than they watch concerts. Get some Ovations out on the talent shows before they die off.
Glen Campbell is still hugely popular, by the way, but probably not with guitar buyers. Sad to say that rap and hip hop are still popular and those people don't sell guitars. Do something to put them out to pasture.
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Location: Texas | "Glen Campbell is still hugely popular, by the way, but probably not with guitar buyers." Mark, although you will see Glen knoodling on an ovation acoustic when interviewed around the house, he certainly did not use one in his last two video's and in concert uses a EA68, which visually doesnt represent Ovation acoustics. I think it was a great relationship early on and both benefited from it. Paul probably can chime in here, but it seems like the last Ovation acoustic Glen really wanted to be seen with was his 1537 or 87C and that was 20+ some odd years ago. " hip hop are still popular and those people don't sell guitars. Do something to put them out to pasture." LOL...there goes the (pasture) neighborhood.
Edited by jay 2012-10-10 10:39 AM
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Location: Upper Left USA | I have honestly never met a Fender acoustic that I have liked. There are plenty of 80's Yamaha entry level acoustics that are actually coming into their own. |
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Location: Hot Springs, S.D. | darkbarguitar - 2012-10-11 5:16 AM
Ovation (Fender) should just spend 90% of it's marketing and development $'s on getting the right, POPULAR, celebrity endorsements. From country to pop to rock and roll. They need to be seen at the MTV and the CMT music awards, and on Youtube. That's all it would take to generate sales and traffic. And speaking of endorsers, the guitar must be affordable to their particular target market. A $2500+ "signature" guitar is not going to be bought by young people working at vintage clothing stores, Richard's Whole Foods, or Starbucks. Besides that, the target market has to be bigger than 173 people.
There's really nothing wrong with the product they are producing, Asian OR domestic.
I agree. I think the reason Ovations are so popular here is because so many people play them on stage here. I started playing open mics, weddings, fundraisers, and even an occasional paid performance  when I moved here eight years ago. People started asking me about my guitar. Then when I opened the shop and started hosting Saturday jam sessions, all of my regulars asked me to find Ovations for them. Now on a typical Saturday there are about ten Ovation/Adamas players to two Martin players and a couple of Yamahas.
All of the O players also play shows in the area, and people ask about their guitars. The next thing I know, a customer drives up from Nebraska saying he saw "so-and-so" in a performance in their area and they told him they got their Ovation from me. They are sincerely looking to buy one just based on hearing/seeing one on stage.
Get them out there and they will sell on their own merits. |
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Location: closely held secret | Moody, p.i. - 2012-10-09 6:23 PM
Time to put Campbell out to pasture and find the new up and comers......
The Fourth Horseman has just appeared...
Edited by Waskel 2012-10-10 11:38 AM
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Location: Flahdaw | Mark in Boise - 2012-10-10 11:03 AM
Maybe the scariest thing Bob has ever said.
I truly believe that Ovation will not survive trying to market to OUR demographic. That's what they HAVE been doing and it is no longer working (and hasn't been working for quite some time). Keep in mind, Ovation is now owned by a large public corporation that is losing millions of dollars, and is millions of dollars in debt. They are probably in board meetings trying to decide whether to shut Ovation down, sell the brand, or give it one last big time marketing push. They HAVE to go after the younger market to sell NEW guitars to. For the most part, we here on the OFC are all bottom feeding for super deals on pre-owned USA O's. THAT'S not going to keep them in business. |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | amosmoses - 2012-10-10 9:37 AM
"Glen Campbell is still hugely popular, by the way, but probably not with guitar buyers." Mark, although you will see Glen knoodling on an ovation acoustic when interviewed around the house, he certainly did not use one in his last two video's and in concert uses a EA68, which visually doesnt represent Ovation acoustics. I think it was a great relationship early on and both benefited from it. Paul probably can chime in here, but it seems like the last Ovation acoustic Glen really wanted to be seen with was his 1537 or 87C and that was 20+ some odd years ago. " hip hop are still popular and those people don't sell guitars. Do something to put them out to pasture." LOL...there goes the (pasture) neighborhood.
When I saw Glen in concert in Phoenix, there were 2 or 3 Ovations being used throughout, but I don't recall Glen ever playing anything other than an electric of a different brand. Ovations are instantly identifiable on stage, unlike most other brands, which has to be useful for marketing if they'd get them in the hands of the performers.
Anyone have any idea if the Guitar Hero fad ever led to sales of real guitars? Fender has to know the demographics of who buys guitars these days and we assume it's the young kids, but I'm not so sure. I was at a Chamber of Commerce banquet last night and started talking to someone about guitars. A 70 year old just traded in his American Tele that he bought new a couple years ago for an American Strat. I have bought 5 or 6 new guitars in the last 5 years or so. I bet young kids aren't buying that many. There are a ton of baby boomers like me that played in high school or college and are getting back in the market now that we're empty nesters or on the eve of retirement. |
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Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire | "For the most part, we here on the OFC are all bottom feeding for super deals on pre-owned USA O's. THAT'S not going to keep them in business."
#1- I resemble that remark,
AND
#2- You are absitively right.
We are not the future-oriented demographic, but are more in the enviable position of having the money, & having the time. Well, that's my delusion, and I'm stickin' to it! |
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Location: NJ | well
I think endorsees are still valid. Jack White did a ton for old silvertone amps and gretsch guitars.
get some young hot shots playing ovation and it will look like the 80's when everyone had one.
I find it fascinating that most major studios will list an ovation guitar in their arsenal of acoustics or will have one sitting there.
these guitars are a staple of the industry just like salsa needs chips. the problem is getting everyone to admit that it is ok to like them |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Just look what the dude from Queens of the Stone Age did for the Ultra GP?
Just cuz of one dude on stage the value of an old guitar went-up 1000%.
As to getting people to admit that they like Ovations?...
I have people come-up to me every day an comment on my Ovations...
(admittedly I am out there everyday)
But it is Very Rare that I have had anyone disrespect the Ovation brand.
A few people who play Martins and such say that they don't like the round back...
(the same people who don't like undersaddle pickups and prefer soundboard transducers)
But no one has ever come-up to me to tell me that Ovations suck.
I do have many young'uns come-up to ask "What kind of guitar is That?"
Now I always look to see what brand of guitar someone is playing on TV.
Taylors, and the occasional Takamine. And some Telecasters.
So maybe it would help to get some Elites and Adamii out on the Tube.
(Roundhole Ovations just don't have that visual impact  ) |
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Location: Flahdaw | Seems to me that fancy-*** preamps may also soon be old news. When you can have eq, tuner, volume, any and all effects you want loaded on your iPad plus all your songs, backing tracks, and lyrics, who needs a big ol' preamp with wires and batteries and all. A passive pup direct to an iPad would be all you need, right?
Edited by BobG 2012-10-10 2:34 PM
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | darkbarguitar - A passive pup direct to an iPad would be all you need, right? If it was bluetooth....yeah, that would be pretty cool. |
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Location: NJ | preamps will evolve.
I think options of an mp3 style idea preamp along with a simple op pro studio preamp is what is needed. |
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Location: south east Michigan | As I post my son is using my VXT with a Roland Cube.
He loves it.
Given how well my 3 acoustic and 2 electric Ovations have held up over the years, he may never have to buy a new guitar.
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| As a simple suggestion, I think "finger style" stuff is gaining some popularity and often people like the softer woods, like Cedar and even Redwood. Would it be that hard to add some nice alternate wood tops to the Balladeer and above instruments ? It seems things beyond Spruce is very rare in the standard price ranges. Yes, the Adamas line has options and I think a very few Elites have as well. But sometimes, I think there is a market for a simple , but well made, guitar with nice alternate solid woods , under $1000 MSRP. |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | One 2080 in the hands of Lady Gaga in one of her commercials for her Fame perfume and they won't be able to hire people fast enough to fill all the orders for 2080's. And in case you think I'm joking... Search YouTube "Lada Gaga Guitar" and you get over 110,000 !!!! covers of Gaga tunes on guitar. I'm just say'n... Want perspective... there are only 276,000 results for "Beatles guitar" Oh, yeah... Beatles have how many Albums?? Gaga has ONLY THREE !!! Again.. I'm just say'n.. |
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Location: Pueblo West, CO | mileskb - 2012-10-10 11:47 PM
One 2080 in the hands of Lady Gaga in one of her commercials for her Fame perfume and they won't be able to hire people fast enough to fill all the orders for 2080's...
You bring up a good point. Advertisers in different sports, NASCAR for example, know that the loyalty of the fans for their sports figure is transferred to the company that sponsors them, which translates into sales dollars for the sponsor.
I've seen a lot of O ads featuring various artists over the years. Do you know, were these artists sponsored by O and paid to appear in the ads or were they big fans of the instruments and they agreed to appear in the ads out of loyalty to the brand?
Edited by DanSavage 2012-10-11 6:38 PM
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Location: Indiana | Some were just playing the newest free guitar given to them, yes. Some became infatuated with other free guitars, yes. Some of my friends genuinely fell in love with other makes. I respect that.
As a former endorser, I will say that some of us didn't want an improvement on the k-bar neck or other advancements over the old school O's and A's. However, it was known as a progressive company and in their quest to move forward, just moved to far away from the instruments that had made us fans in the first place... but made new fans in the process... Can't fault the company on that... especially when they'd built bullet proof guitars that last and don't need to be replaced every new model year if you're not a collector. I am certainly guilty of having a working stable of instruments and not being a buyer of new product.
Interestingly, I have one old friend, who's name would flow much easily off your tongues than mine... who played my A at a show we did in Texas a few years back, perked up and told me fondly how many he still had in a closet at home... and the next time I saw him on TV, he was playing one of his old 1681's. Life goes on, and Miles (and others) are right, gotta go for the new blood endorsers. That, and keeping (getting) the product in the stores will keep the brand alive, not necessarily the opinions of old farts like me.
Just 2 cents.
Edited by Jonmark Stone 2012-10-11 11:41 PM
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| So, why AREN'T they in brick and mortar stores these days ? You can't buy them if you don't see them and get to play them. Yeah, there is online, but how many new players are going to take a flyer on an Ovation, with no experience with them ?
Do you know why I bought an Ovation, back in about 1979 ? I was trying to save up for a Guild D-55 and went to the music store to buy a songbook for a new record I had and saw this Legend on the wall. I gave it a try, for grins, and the NECK stood out. This thing seemed so easy to play, compared to my old Kay guitar with a wider neck. It sounded good and was a used one, going for about half what I would have to save for that D-55. So, I borrowed the money from my Grandmother ( $400 ) and took it home. Still have it. But the point was that it played so nice. You can't tell that from an online seller, unless all the reviews make a point of it, I guess.
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | JohnW63 - 2012-10-11 10:23 PM
but how many new players are going to take a flyer on an Ovation, with no experience with them ?
Actually... most. There are more guitars sold online, including eBay then anywhere else, hand down. While I haven't found any data... it's likely on the order of 100 online sales to one in-store sale or more. Just think about it... How many stores are there any more? One number I came up with is 18,000 Musical Instrument Stores. Seems high, but I'll go with it as it's the only number I came up with from a reasonable source. Now, how many 1000's of guitars are sold each year? Obviously people are buying them someplace besides stores.
So how does the young musician decide? They see one someplace (likely TV or Movie or Concert) that appeals to them.
It is my understanding that most of the Ovation endorsers purchased their guitars. Maybe at a discount, or for some trade of using it in photos and such, but they seemed to have taken pride that if you saw them on the list of endorsers... they actually played the guitar and on the part of Ovation, they put it in hands of some great players.
I'm not sure that model works anymore mainly because some of the greatest guitar players these days are never or rarely seen by the public. You can count the stadium tours on one hand these days. There are however a lot of "pop" musicians on all the charts that are good players that are seen playing guitars. They are not guitar legends, they are just people who play. Those artists should be the target, and they are the target of folks like Taylor who it seems will give a guitar to anyone who can spell Taylor. But, like it or not, they end up generating a lot of sales that way.
Ovation has to somehow find a way to walk that line of getting guitars into peoples hands and still be recognized as the company with integrity. I think they can do it. I think Fender is actually in a better position to do it than Ovation by itself was for the last bunch of years.
As they say... we shall see. |
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Location: NJ | JohnW63 - 2012-10-10 6:53 PM
As a simple suggestion, I think "finger style" stuff is gaining some popularity and often people like the softer woods, like Cedar and even Redwood. Would it be that hard to add some nice alternate wood tops to the Balladeer and above instruments ? It seems things beyond Spruce is very rare in the standard price ranges. Yes, the Adamas line has options and I think a very few Elites have as well. But sometimes, I think there is a market for a simple , but well made, guitar with nice alternate solid woods , under $1000 MSRP.
this is truly the unrealistic response I was hoping I would not get on this thread.
you want a USA made guitar with a premium top for under 1K msrp
maybe in the 80's but tell me one yes ONE manufacturer that makes guitar in the usa that can offer that?
the cost of materials alone is prohibited.
let's put this in perspective. the last usa built elite t guitars were something like 1199 list.
now these guitars were able to use lesser grade cosmetic tops because of the finish.
sorry to jump over your post but this will NEVER happen.
if you want a rolls royce you have to pay for it if you want transportation to and from work you can wait at the bus station or buy a kia |
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Location: Utah | JohnW63 - 2012-10-12 12:23 AM
So, why AREN'T they in brick and mortar stores these days ? You can't buy them if you don't see them and get to play them. Yeah, there is online, but how many new players are going to take a flyer on an Ovation, with no experience with them ?
My 20 yr old daughter Sara has approached me twice in the past month for info to help someone who wants to buy an Ovation. One of those is an employee at the local mom-pop store where they have a couple of Applause on display but he knows he wants something much better. People see her playing a show or in this case they are jamming at the store and they fall in love with Ovation and Adamas.
As Alison said, when people see and hear an O or A even at a coffee shop they want one for themselves.
mileskb - 2012-10-11 1:47 AM
One 2080 in the hands of Lady Gaga in one of her commercials for her Fame perfume and they won't be able to hire people fast enough to fill all the orders for 2080's. And in case you think I'm joking... Search YouTube "Lada Gaga Guitar" and you get over 110,000 !!!! covers of Gaga tunes on guitar.
How about Gaga covered on a UTE?
http://youtu.be/INzBsYHEfw8 |
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Location: SoCal | John, there are other tops but usually in the Collectors series...a couple are Redwood in 2001, Koa in 2009...Al is right, I really don't expect that you will find non-standard, quality wood unless it is not wood but laminate.
I would sell my redwood 2001C but not anywhere near $1,000. Try $2,000 and I might negotiate a little.
So, we might find guitars below $1,000 with killer looking tops but with laminate which will never (at least as an acoustic) compete with the USA Ovation, Martin, Taylor, etc. If acoustic sound is secondary but appearance and amped sound is important, the Celebrity line is great.
Fender has now converted the factory to primarily make Guilds. From what I have seen and been told, the Guild line is as good or better than it has ever been. Yet, I have not seen a Connecticut Guild in a mass marketing store (i.e., Guitar Center) or a upscale store like Buffalo Brothers. So much for Fender's marketing ability.
Unfortunately, I don't expect that we will see future Connecticut Ovations/Adamas (other than a few customs). I don't believe the profit margin is there for Fender to make it part of their product line. Fender is having enough problems with its primary lines (Fender, Squire, amps, etc.)
as well as receivables such as Guitar Center's $11 million owed (as of 7/20/2012).
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New guitars from New Hartford?
