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Posts: 13997
Location: Upper Left USA | Just don't ask Dave what he did for a Klondike Bar...
I am so glad that Dave has some strong opininions and though some are wrong I like having the independence supported. |
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Posts: 4996
Location: Phoenix AZ | Alison, I didn't say I was RIGHT, just that it was my opinion. That's the beauty to these discussions, nobody is right and nobody is wrong. Interesting thing about sound, it all comes down to some little hairs tickling the insides of our ears and moving a few really small bones that triggers an electrical signal to flash in our brain and we interpret it as deep, mellow, woody, balanced, etc. It should surprise nobody that we hear things differently. Actually it's amazing that we hear this as similar as we do! |
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Posts: 2241
Location: Simpsonville, SC | Well, unfortunately my first NEW O was an LX, I agree with Gall, it was lifeless, maybe soulless, bland. (probably a bad apple).
I sold it and went old O. Thanks be to going to an O getagether I was able to witness (taste) many flavors.
BTW....I have a vanilla, chocolate, strawberry, smurfy and double chocolate now.
FWIW...I hope Ovation stays around awhile. |
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Posts: 795
Location: Texas | I also agree with Gallerinski on all his points.
And by the way, for your information, if there is anyone on this board that has owned and experienced over 100 plus Ovations and Adamases models from all eras is Dave. (Gallerinski).
(yes muddy pie, I said Adamases) :)
So I agree that the key is to experience various brands/flavors for all our different moods in order to appreciate each one.
And as far as Ovation guitars, unfortunately the writing has been on the wall for sometime.
:cool: |
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Posts: 10583
Location: NJ | I gig with my Adamas every week. sometimes twice a week.
I do not forsee giving that up in the near future |
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Posts: 4996
Location: Phoenix AZ | Guys, it's not a contest who's right/wrong.
Your mileage will vary. |
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March 2009
Posts: 715
| Originally posted by moody, p.i.:
I went into a Guitar Center yesterday that I'm not normally in. I looked at the Ovations there and probably would have chosen a Taylor over what I saw. And I hate Taylors.
Gotta get good guitars into stores where people can see and play them. Don't know if that's going to happen.
This is a discussion that comes up every 2-3 months on the board..... How true! At the Daddy's I was at, they only had Celebrities with cracked tops. The GC I was at had a used 12 string adamas, an iDEA guitar and celebrities.
To try the Ovation 2009 collector guitar I had to travel 1.5 hours each way. So it seems that I have to get far away from Albany NY if I want to try any Ovations other than Celebrities.
Michelle |
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April 2006
Posts: 2491
Location: Copenhagen Denmark | So much to say .. the Ovation guitar is an ICON,.. THE guitar innovation of the 19 hundrs` .. ACOUSTIC -wise .. Look -wise .. the FIRST Successful Amplified Acoustic .. and ,ADAMAS , the FIRST successful CONSISTENTLY made LAMINATE TOP .. none other git. mfg. comes close .. managed by the FINEST git. amp. mfg. around , OVATION has come to stay ... mark my words .. We`re Not done yet ..
Vic |
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March 2005
Posts: 5567
Location: Blue Ridge Mountains | My Guitar Albums (for the most part)
When all is said and done, they are, after all, just guitars folks...
We likes what we likes, and we buy and play what we likes...
I have liked Ovation/Adamas guitars as well as many other brands for nearly 45 years now...
Curmudgeon? Old Fart? Ancient? Well Sonny, (lol, always wanted to say that), I for one am proud of it...a lot of partying; gigging; string sets; guitar picks; beverages/etc. of choice; and personal relationships have gone under the bridge to earn me that title...
And guess what? I'M STILL HERE!
ymmv
MM |
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December 2004
Posts: 582
Location: Denmark | Originally posted by Country Artist:
... I ask what is the legacy of our beloved Ovations? ... I think the Ovation legacy lies in the succesful design of the first electro-acoustic guitar and in daring utilization of a bunch of innovative tecnologies (lyrachor bowl, epaulette tops, the Adamas soundboard, piezoceramic pickups) nicely integrated in a unique design that is appealing not only to the ears but also - and highly so - to the eyes and fingers. It has that magic not only identified as guitar - a musical instrument - but also as a lifestyle product expressing so many other things - at least in the eye of the owner :-) |
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Posts: 766
Location: New Hampsha | Perhaps my displomacy switch was set to "2", but the major point I'd like to make is this:
We want Ovation to improve quality, get new high-profile endorsees, come up with energized new US product; whatever. Be strong and successful.
All that takes money.
And Ovation doesn't get any revenue whatsoever from the resale of some old CL.
Dealers won't stock them if they can't sell them; that's why you don't see and O/A's on the wall.
And the product's fan club won't endorse the new products? With friends like that.....
I, like lots of others got started into O's with a Celebrity 12 string. I have moved on and upscale. But that's how products establish brand loyalty and repeat business. Even BMW has a "1" series. And it's not as good as a used "7" series, do BMW salesmen advise new customers shopping for a new BMW to go find a used "7"? The analogy goes on.
I respectfully suggest that when folks come looking for adice about what new Ovation to buy, we give them advice about selecting the best new "O". If they want used, then let 'em have it.
When we turn a "New" sale into a "used" sale we help to kill Ovation.
Hopefully more diplomatic? |
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Posts: 9301
Location: south east Michigan | get new high-profile endorsees Here's my opinion on this point.
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With the state of the music "industry" today, there just are no endorsers out there that would carry a fraction of the clout that a Glen, Jim, or Cat was able to generate. Seems like we are all listening to our owm little eclectic mix tape. We no longer gather around the TV on Tuesday night and watch someone like Glen play two or three songs on their favorite guitar.
Just to pick a name.... Dave Mathews. Sure, it would be great to see him play an Ovation in front of a crowd and in videos, but I don't think that even big name like his would generate a fraction of the influence that Glen did.
Maybe it's been proved that endorsements just don't offer the kind of return they used to.
Heck... I think Ovation is lucky to have one of their models featured on one of the top TV shows of the last 4 years. A character on "Lost" has been carted an Ovation case around with him all last season. |
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Posts: 4996
Location: Phoenix AZ | So, how about the other brands ... how do they do it?
Taylor and Martin seem to be as popular as ever.
I can't remember a concert that did NOT include a Takamine.
Actually Takamine is a good example. Both Takamine and Ovation are marketed in the US by the same company, so why the huge disparity in the (perceived) popularity between these two brands? The CMT channel is like a 7/24 rolling billboard for Takamine. Country Fest up in Wisc. last weekend could have passed as a Takamine festival. The American Idol house band. Last years Super Bowl. Etc. Etc. Kaman (now Fender) owns Ovation, so if anything between the two I would have thought they would have pushed their own product over just distributing the other. So what happened? |
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Posts: 8307
Location: Tennessee | You're watching old folks shows and they are targeting demographics. Ovations are the choice for the edgy crowd, and you're not watching edgy shows. If you were, you'd see Ovations. The Ovations you are buying are the ones from your youth when YOU were edgy, when your Pop was playing a dread. Same things with cars. You lust after the '69 Chevelle SS396 or a '57 BelAir, or '51 Mercury and will buy that if you can (but not a new Challenger or Camaro). And your daily driver is a freaking Camry or Accord.
(Note: You is a general term here).
Ovation did try to go back and make their "great" guitars from the past and had a marketing rollout and all that - about four years ago or so. Called it the traditional series. It failed miserably, probably because no one bought them. Pretty much the same thing happened with the 40th anniversary models.
Ovation has always been the cool new thing. It's still that way. And you can't be both the cool new thing and the old thing at the same time. Oldsmobile went out of business thinking that way. So Ovation should stick with being the cool new thing, even if that means old farts will forever complain about how it ain't the good old days anymore.
By the way, clearly my top 5 favorite Ovations have all been made in the last few years.
Ovation will not go out of business if they keep looking forward. If they try to make guitars for the old guys, they are gonna run out of market pretty fast. Long live the contour bowl. |
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Posts: 4996
Location: Phoenix AZ | Yup. Bobbo nailed it.
I'm off to drive my sedan and play my dreadnaught. Where the hell did the years go. Well, at least I'm still wear lace up shoes. |
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December 2001
Posts: 7247
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | +1 for MitzDawg, Slipkid and Gallerinski..
Nothing to add. but I would like to highlight..
"When we turn a "New" sale into a "used" sale we help to kill Ovation." Maybe kill is a harsh word, but we certainly aren't helping. |
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Posts: 10583
Location: NJ |
Ovation did try to go back and make their "great" guitars from the past and had a marketing rollout and all that - about four years ago or so. Called it the traditional series. It failed miserably, probably because no one bought them. Pretty much the same thing happened with the 40th anniversary models.
. [/QB] not so with the adamas guitars bobbo.
I wish I had more 47 ri's to sell and I sold about 25 of them aside from the OFC I guitars.
I get a request for these every coupld of weeks.
the adamas II reissue was not as successful as the adamas I but the Adamas I is certainly a top selling guitar
the u681t is still a favorite especially for the ofc bang for the buck crowd and it remains a great guitar (I still like the 1680 better)
as for the glenn campbell josh white etc they all were actual flops.
The 30 anniv CL was a hit and that guitar is still sought after.
throw enough feces at the wall and something is sure to stick |
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Posts: 4619
Location: SoCal | A few observations from someone who has sold and traded a few but still has 55 guitars (41 are O's and A's), not counting a two mandos, three ukes, and a banjo.
I know that there are far too many out there that have lost their jobs, are furloughed for two or three days, or are afraid of losing their job...however, there are a lot out there spending good money for instruments, appliances, cars, etc.
In several stores, I see the same Taylors hanging there for months (not the same models, the same guitars), yet the celebs and O's have been replaced due to sales.
We have an aggressive rep in this area even though there is a lack of advertisement. Not sure about the other areas but we have a good number of "chop shops" with Matt.
I have seen the eyes of a youngster with a beautiful Celeb, priced at less than $300, more concerned about how it sounds plugged in than acoustic. His dad was happy as it was a lot smaller "hit" on his credit card. Don't know if dad was happy because there was less surface to get chips or scratches on it but the bowl definitely makes it more durable.
I asked one youngster why he was considering the Celeb (he thought it was an O since it had an O headstock)...his friend had one. Let us not forget that the younger age group is heavily influenced by their peer group. |
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Posts: 11840
Location: closely held secret | Originally posted by Tony Calman:
Let us not forget that the younger age group is heavily influenced by their peer group. Good point, Tony.
...lucky we don't have that problem... :rolleyes: |
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Posts: 4081
Location: Utah | Originally posted by Tony Calman:
Let us not forget that the younger age group is heavily influenced by their peer group. Yup, that is true. My daughter has been the direct cause of at least two of her friends buying upscale O's. I see quite a few of her friends/fans on MySpace with good Ovations. Several local musicians in high school or college are playing Ovations.
Putting an Ovation in the hands of a middle aged or older star isn't going to influence the kids. Though it may well influence us older folks! I bough my Hamer after seeing Kaki in concert with three of them. Not that she is even within sight of middle age yet. Maybe that didn't really make my point, did it? |
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Posts: 15682
Location: SoCal | This has turned into one of the more interesting threads I've read. Al's comments were especially enlightening regarding the sale of the #47's and the 30th CL's. All I ever see or hear is what's in the stores or what's bought and sold here...... |
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Posts: 2683
Location: Hot Springs, S.D. | Well, when it comes to musicians, I don't think peer groups are defined so much by age as style of music. A lot of my younger students, in fact most of them, want to learn music from the 60's, 70's and 80's. And it occurs to me now that maybe the reason Ovations and Celebs are so popular here is because I get out there and play my Ovations on stage, and people fall in love with the sound. So, in my own small way, in my own small area, I am endorsing Ovations, and it works. |
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Posts: 8307
Location: Tennessee | Originally posted by stonebobbo:
Ovation did try to go back and make their "great" guitars from the past and had a marketing rollout and all that - about four years ago or so. Called it the traditional series. It failed miserably, probably because no one bought them. Pretty much the same thing happened with the 40th anniversary models. I was referring to the actual "Traditional Series" guitars that they brought out in 2005. There is a link to the brochure here on Jerome's site: 2005 Traditional Series Catalog . The point I did not make very well was that Ovation did indeed try to make the guitars people here seem to be pining over ... and nobody bought them. So they have now finally been put to rest. And to be honest, my opinion is that these guitars were brought back then because a relatively small group of vocal ovation lovers made a huge issue out of Ovation getting away from their "great" guitars and going to the LX series, forgetting their roots, blah blah blah.
I cede your point on the Adamas guitars Al, but then again there were only 47 of the #47s. Would they survive if they were not a very small batch of exclusive guitars but instead a regular item that people had to fork over $4K at their local retailer? I dunno ... they are great guitars but somehow I think it would be a stretch. Same thing for the 30th Anniversary CL ... they were a very limited number (and essentially the Collector's guitar for the year) but when they put the 1719 back onto the production chart it failed.
Coming back to Serge's original thread ... what is Ovation's legacy ... the point I was trying to make is that Ovation is the guitar company that keeps innovating and pushing forward into new things. And I like it like that. I think the new guitars are stellar - even the Ultra 2171 is better than probably 75% of the legacy Ovations I've played over time. There are plenty of people here who have been around a lot of Ovation guitars who feel the same way. Heck, Alison probably rejected more guitars than most people have ever held. And I agree with mitzdawg ... we've got to encourage people who come here to go out and buy the new guitars and quit telling them to go find a nice clean Delta 88. Because I want to be buying Ovation guitars 20 years from now ... whatever they may be like then because I know they will still be the coolest and within my reach. |
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Posts: 3969
| There's a young lady (I say young, she's probably mid-late 20's) who frequents the local open mic with an Applause. No one gives her grief about it (even the Taylor players), although she calls it the red-haired stepchild of Ovations.
Our local Best Buy moves a number of Celebs - there are always different ones in the acoustic room every time I drop in every couple weeks. |
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Posts: 3111
Location: Nashville TN. | The problem Ovation has a Marketing/dealer network problem. If you get the guitar in peoples hand they sell themself. It very hard to sell a guitar that people can't try. MTV, CMT GAC AND VH1 all offer
plenty of chances to see guitars. More than ever infact. Al points out something very interesting.
CL reissues and #47ri are both deep no cutaway.
Both appeal to the person who is full time acoustic player.
They don't made anything except 1680 in deep no cut. Thats real expensive you can't try one.
They did bring back the traditional 1711, 1717, 1719
& 1718 except no one seem to know it.
An OFC member did not 1719 made in 2006 untill he saw mine. Obviously none instores and little marketing did not work.
I never saw even 1 in a store.
How many of us cheris the Pacemaker?
They don't make them anymore.
The stuff the do make and endorcers are most acts who occasionally play acoustic guitars.
If its your only marketing in that dirrection
is not going to support you long term.
Slipnot a big act but not going to sell alot acoustic guitars.
While I understand for some people the deep
conture is the right guitar. But DC LX sitting next to A braced deeo no cut.
The deep no cut sounds substantually better.
Its why my standard Elite counture on loan to my niefew indeffinately.
When I bought the W598 I mail ordered it.
I put it tune and strummed an open E.
My first thought was I $2000 mistake.
It sounded awefull.
Then I remember coated strings.
Changed those for Adamas strings and sounded
wonderfull. Had I tried it in a store
I would not have bought it.
Interms of recommending a used instrument.
How many of us have just one?
Once you expirence a USA Ovation you tend to buy others or move on to Adamas.
How many started with used then purchased new?
Even though they sell tons of Celbs those are not
turning into high end O & A sales. Those are moving on to Taylor & Martin.
Dispite claims otherwise most people go to the store to buy a guitar. |
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Ovation Legacy
