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Location: Hot Springs, S.D. | I wonder if they could nail Esteban for illegal pressed board... |
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Posts: 3111
Location: Nashville TN. | doesn't its like expensive guitar??? |
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Posts: 3084
Location: Brisbane Australia | If they were going to run the gauntlet you'd think they'd at least import better timber for their necks
It might solve the snapping headstock problem on a Les Paul!!
AJ |
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Posts: 425
Location: SE Michigan | Fender, Taylor, Rickenbacker, Danelectro, Carvin, MusicMan, ESP, Spector, Martin, Guild, Ovation, Hamer, Alvarez, B.C. Rich, Washburn and Heritage all share a common trait not shared by Gibson. My understanding is that all those companies operate out of Union states.
Tennessee is a right-to-work state. Name another instrument company, targeted by the DOJ under the Lacey Act.
Could just be that the other manufacturers are simply following the rules. As I mentioned earlier, Gibson has been very aggressive lately in regards to how they run there business. |
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Posts: 11840
Location: closely held secret | That's not a warrant. It's an affidavit in support of a warrant.
Trust me, I'm not defending Gibson. I'm simply of the belief that there is no free society when governments are allowed to do as they please concerning peoples liberty with no accountability. |
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Posts: 5567
Location: Blue Ridge Mountains | The feds should stop worrying about illegal WOOD aliens, and work more on the HUMAN illegal aliens Well the first is something they can do: 1. It's an easy target and 2. they know they'll not face any defensive action during the raid...
The second is something entirely different: 1. they're everywhere and 2. it's easier to just ignore the problem and use children's TV to teach the next generation of Americans Spanish...after all: someone needs to fill the jobs a lot of Americans feel are beneath them...if it ain't broke, why fix it?
Play Adamas! |
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Location: south east Michigan | Wow... We obviously have vastly different opinions of what "broke" looks like. |
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Posts: 4535
Location: Flahdaw | Originally posted by Slipkid:
Wow... We obviously have vastly different opinions of what "broke" looks like. This is what "broke" looks like...
BROKE |
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December 2003
Posts: 13996
Location: Upper Left USA | Speaking of guitars... the issue as I see it is that no matter how big you are the reward for getting what you want regardless of what rules are broken is simply "you lose".
LMI appears to be in the middle of a Black Market trail to get unfinished product that should have been provided by local craftsman.
If I believe the affadavit then the right portion of our Government made a worthy case.
Sellers and Processors of exotic and marketable woods know what the rules are and what is off limits. This sends the message that the rules must be followed.
If you can't comply, do something else or pay to have the rules changed like the rest of the Industrial Brutes... |
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Location: south east Michigan | Parts / raw material must be finished by India's local craftsman????
Or else the American FBI raids your factory????
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I wish we had some of those restrictions that worked the other way around. |
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Posts: 13303
Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Originally posted by Slipkid:
Parts / raw material must be finished by India's local craftsman????
Or else the American FBI raids your factory????
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I wish we had some of those restrictions that worked the other way around. We probably do. The other countries most likely just choose to ignore them. |
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Posts: 698
Location: Cork, Ireland | How do I know where/when the ebony on my 30+ year-old Pacemaker was harvested and made? |
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Posts: 14127
Location: 6 String Ranch | "Gibson is run by a bunch of jerks....
no, just one. |
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October 2005
Posts: 4071
Location: Utah | Originally posted by Brian T:
On the other hand, if they do not enforce environmental laws, the laws are pointless and profiteers will rape our planet. Also I believe (and have sampled) many fine alternatives to endangered tropical hardwoods in guitars. I think as guitar players we need to open out minds a bit and give such alternatives a try. If reasonable laws are being violated, enforce those laws. I am not an expert in exotic endangered wood, but the laws seem reasonable.
What is not reasonable is the way they are being enforced with regards to obviously older instruments. It is asinine to be confiscating old pianos because the keys have real ivory on them. Or confiscating old guitars because the owner cannot document what kind of wood each part is made from and where that wood came from. Perhaps it is the issue of police state tactics, confiscating property before proving guilt. Who could have imagined a time when one would be afraid to take their vintage instrument across the border? |
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Posts: 4535
Location: Flahdaw | In the future, all intruments are to be made from a "wood-like substance". (usually a form of recycled medical waste) |
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November 2005
Posts: 4832
Location: Campbell River, British Columbia | In the future we'll all be dead.
In the meantime, we live in a complicated world that we made.
Just like any other game, all you can do is learn the rules,
play as best you can, and hope you get the right cards.
(unless it's Scrabble, then all bets are off!) |
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November 2005
Posts: 4832
Location: Campbell River, British Columbia | Stephen, make you a deal.
Don't make generalizations about 'other countries'
and I'll try not to make generalizations about Americans.... ;-p |
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May 2003
Posts: 4389
Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | I've come not to like the Gibson's. I find the fretboards too cramped ... and now, I know they are made from illegally harvested wood! I was down in Indonesia in 2009, and those guys don't give a darn what they chop down as long as it'll make a buck. Saw the same thing down in Costa Rica in the 90's. |
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Posts: 1227
Location: Connersville, Indiana | In my career I have fill out 1000's of request for search warrants. In reading the affidavit I see that they have found shipment of wood going back to 2009 I think. What I wonder is how long has the investigation being going on. If they knew way back when they should of done something then instead of waiting for more probable cause, One of my pet piss me offs. Because if they knew then, how many guitars have been made and sold. Now if in the investigation they just turned of the evidence then act now instead of waiting. Black Market items are everywhere, fake watches, endangered wood, endangered animals, I know there seems to be more pressing issues to address, but someone has to do something sometime or it just keeps going on. just my personal opinion. I just hope they don't stop at Gibson and continue the investigation into other music companies. Stringed instrument companies, piano companies, making high end pianos for the rich with Ivory keys and on and on and on. |
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Location: Massachusetts | I was thinking of bringing my custom legend with me to Florida, but now I'm concerned that it might get confiscated at the airport because of the ebony fretboard. |
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Posts: 1455
Location: Texas | Originally posted by javaman:
I was thinking of bringing my custom legend with me to Florida, but now I'm concerned that it might get confiscated at the airport because of the ebony fretboard. Presumably you are joking? I didn't think there was cause for concern with domestic flights, since the guitar and it's components either originated here, or are assumed to have been legally imported in the past. Returning to the U.S. on an international flight however, could potentially cause problems with customs, IF the rumors are true.
But don't take my (nor anyone else's) speculation for fact, do a little research before heading to the airport. |
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Posts: 137
Location: Massachusetts | Since I heard about the Gibson raid I've been trying to find out more about what's legal and not legal regarding the possession of guitars with endangered wood that were legally purchased here in the U.S..
So far it seems to refer to manufacturers and importers rather than individuals who own guitars that have these woods in them.
Has anyone heard of any incident where someone's personal guitar was confiscated? |
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September 2003
Posts: 9301
Location: south east Michigan | For I brief instance I was concerned about how we cross through Canada on our way out east.
Then I realized how silly & paranoid that was. |
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February 2002
Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | Originally posted by javaman:
Has anyone heard of any incident where someone's personal guitar was confiscated? I don't know of any actual cases, but it is perfectly within their remit, according to how they are interpreting the terms of the Lacey Act. If you don't have the relevant paperwork they can permanently confiscate any guitar containing endangered material, regardless of when it was made (even if it's just a Brazillian rosewood headstock veneer) and stick the owner with a hefty fine. Also the burden of proof regarding the origin and species of the material lies with the owner. If they decide your instrument is made with Brazillan R/W but it's actually say Jacaranda, tough, what they say goes. I was talking to Stan Jay at MandoBandits about this, and the paperwork is not difficult to get. So while it's a PITA, if you are travelling with an instrument containing species on the list then it's probably wise to jump through their hoops beforehand.
I did a gig a few weeks ago with Katy Moffatt who was touring with a '69 Brazillian D28 she'd had since she was a kid. She wasn't even remotely aware of the law or the risks when crossing international borders. |
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Posts: 13996
Location: Upper Left USA | They may have confiscated Pete Seeger's Banjo with the Lignum Vitae
neck? Seeger\'s Banjo missing |
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Bad Day for Gibson
