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Location: Boise, Idaho | I should probably make sure you stop on the way back so my wife can see how reasonable I am, relatively speaking. |
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Location: closely held secret | Depending on how early I can get out of Twin Falls, I'll try to do that. It's a long ride to Hermiston.
What time are you leaving for McCall? |
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Posts: 766
Location: New Hampsha | Nice discussion, and thanks to all who contributed. Can I suggest a gentleman's agreeement that everyone might be comfortable with?
1) If you really want the item to satisfy some deep seated GAS, go for it no matter who you are bidding against.
2) If you are considering something that would be a "nice-to-have" and you recognize another OFC'er is bidding, back off and let them have it.
Or is there no agreement at all and the devil take the hindmost? |
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Posts: 12759
Location: Boise, Idaho | What you suggested seems to be the practice, but I don't know if it would be good to make any sort of "agreement" and there wouldn't be any way to make it stick. |
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Location: south east Michigan | Leave it to the lawyer to find the loop holes. :D |
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Posts: 766
Location: New Hampsha | Gentlemen don't need cops (or lawyers)- they will abide by the agreement.
I'd like to have a clear understanding of what the brethren think. I've resisted bidding on items that I wanted because another OFC'er got there first. (MW pointed out two recent items in particular.) I'll abide by whatever the majority agrees to, but if there's no consensus then it's every man for himself! |
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Posts: 15678
Location: SoCal | If you really want something, then go for it. But there have been times when it's been known that a guitar is really important to somebody here, where everybody else has hung back..... It's a good group of people. |
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Posts: 604
Location: Tampa, FL | What I try to practice (although recently it didn't work out so well) is to establish in my mind how bad I 'want' something. This means I establish what my max bid would be. If I recognize another OFCer in the auction, I'll contact them and let them know I'm interested and how interested. If they indicate my bid would exceed theirs, then I go ahead and bid. I'm usually only going to bid once (the time spoken of recently I did infact bid more than once but that was the result of my interest level increasing after speaking to a fellow OFCer). This way I don't spuriously inflate a bid that I have no chance of winning. By the same token, I wouldn't feel bad if outbid. There's lots of things I can't afford, this particular item would have to get added to that list.
I borrowed this philosophy from some 'locals' and it seems to really keep the whole ebay insanity in perspective. |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | If this country had a few more gentlemen and women, we would have a lot fewer lawyers. |
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Posts: 1673
Location: SoCal | Many of us throw a minimal bid at items just to mark them for reference.
Usually if someone "needs it" or "really wants it", they'll email others about their intentions.
Your best approach is to initially decide what it is worth to you and how much you can afford. Otherwise, you're going to get caught up in bidding wars and overpay. |
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Posts: 9301
Location: south east Michigan | Mitzdawg..
If you out bid me on item I would have no problem with it. Even if I was actively bidding at the end, that's okay. On the other side I might confide what my max bid is with an OFC member a few day before, but I reserve the right to bid higher if I need to at the close of the auction.
There is aways another deal coming down the pike in a few weeks or a few months. |
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Posts: 202
Location: Orlando, Florida | I haven't posting for awhile, and I wouldn't want to offend, however...
To me, OFC members (or any public forum) agreeing on who bids, how much, etc. underminds the auction, and can rob the seller from the highest bid possible. I have also seen something else that's disturbing. It seems that some members just bid on anything Ovation just to push up the prices (could this be my imagination?). This would keep others from getting great deals (and possibly increase the value of your collections?). I could be wrong about this happening, but it sure seems like it sometimes.
Joe |
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Posts: 972
Location: PDX | Originally posted by Mark in Boise:
If this country had a few more gentlemen and women, we would have a lot fewer lawyers. Amen to that!!!
BTW i really, really want a 1-7/8" neck nylon string O -- so the next one that comes up --back off!!!!!!!!!! :) j/k (about backing off that is)
_____
gh1 |
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Posts: 4832
Location: Campbell River, British Columbia | Originally posted by jyam4:
I haven't posting for awhile, and I wouldn't want to offend, however... You're unlikely to offend here. I can't seem to... :rolleyes:
Thing about a truly free market is that it can't be controlled. Reference "The Hunt Brothers and Silver" for a more complete understanding. This group cannot artificially inflate the price of Ovations (and buy them undervalued at the same time!) for any length of time. |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Originally posted by jyam4:
It seems that some members just bid on anything Ovation just to push up the prices (could this be my imagination?). This would keep others from getting great deals Joe They are called bottom feeders (and I am one) and we place nominal bids of various ovations for the purpose of 1) marking the auction like Noah said and 2) hoping it slips by the radar and we pick up a great O at a remarkable price.
I have never placed a bid on a guitar that I would not gladly keep for the price I was willing to pay and I have scored several awesome guitars at ridiculous prices...an '05 collectoes and a 1581RI come to mind.
It was just recently that 2 members went into the stratesphere over an original slothead. The person who ultimately wanted it the most acquired it....as it should be. |
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Posts: 7237
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | "and we place nominal bids of various ovations for the purpose of 1) marking the auction like Noah said "
Why not use the "watching" feature. I prefer this as it doesn't add a bid to the item whereas bidding may cause others to "make a bid" just to mark it. |
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Posts: 79
Location: Minnesota | I tend to agree with Miles. I will generally watch an item rather than bid depending on my level of interest.
If your serious, then bid what your willing to pay!
The bottom feeders here(which I freely admit to being one of, due to budget constraints)are really not an issue because they are usually bidding well below market value! After all everyone likes a good deal :)
I think most here are very good about the communication issue and helping each other with pricing and market value. That being said, truth is any given item is only worth what someone else is willing to pay for it! You just never know what the market will be.
Sorry for being long winded :( , maybe I should go back to just lurking :confused:
I bought my last O on a great BIN :cool: |
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Posts: 1673
Location: SoCal | "Why not use the "watching" feature."
Miles, I do use the "watching" feature for auctions I want to watch.
If I know I'm going to bid on an item, I'll enter a minimal bid so it shows up under "Bidding" in My eBay. I usually already know what my maximum bid will ultimately be, but that happens later. Initially placing my maximum bid has worked against me in cases where a Bidder retracts their bid or a Seller cancels bids/auction revealing the high bidder's max. If eBay worked differently, so would I. |
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Posts: 202
Location: Orlando, Florida | I totally agree about getting a great deal. I've gotten great deals on eBay with guitars in general. That's never the problem. It's just that placing random bids on things that you don't really want would sometimes ruin it for someone else, who is serious about the item. But let me say that EVERYONE is free to bid on anything at any time. But at times there seems to be a pattern among some users. I guess it's up to the individual's conscience about what would be fair if they were in the serious buyer's (or seller's) shoes.
Joe |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Miles, ditto what Noah said plus I only place a bid (minimum or otherwise) on an item that I would be happy to win. If it is curiosity only, then I will use the watch feature but usually for me, if I have no interest in owning, I have no interest in watching.
A couple of months ago, I got a nice Rickenbacker amp for the opening bid of 9.95 because much to my surprise, after a week no one else had bid on it. Had I just marked it to watch, I would have missed out on a great deal. |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | lyam4,
the bids aren't random and if someone else "REALLY" wants it they will have no problems outbidding me.....and if they don't have the resources to outbid me then they really had no business looking at an item they could not afford.
I have had numerous members email at times to ask me if I am going "after" an item or not and I will always respond....usually with whatever my top bid will be. If they decide to back off, then fine. If they want it, they know how much they have to offer to outbid me.
Maybe I am one of the few who doesn't let emotions get in the way of my bids. It doesn't matter how much I want an item, I will figure out my maximum bid and that's the end of it. Later, when the auction is well over, I will check to see if I have adopted anything or not. If not, there is always something else just as facinating waiting behind door number 2.
I have lost many guitars to other members of the OFC who wanted it more than me. I may envy them but I never begrudge them. |
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Location: Orange County, California | :mad: Not me!!
:D :p :D :p |
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Posts: 10583
Location: NJ | Originally posted by Mitzdawg:
Let's get this on the table:
Is there or is there not a "gentleman's agreement" about competing for items on E-bay with other OFC members?
If you see something that interests you but another OFC'er is bidding, do you back off or not? let me make this PERFECTLY clear. This website will NOT be used for collusion of any form for e bay purchases. IF there is evidence of this (like there was last week) you will see threads locked or disappear. |
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Posts: 4619
Location: SoCal | I stayed out of the discussion both because I have been very busy and I really don't understand the basis of the question.
The OFC is a valuable forum...discussion of a guitar or item that is on eBay is enlightening whether I bid or not. Comments from those with more experience or comments by actual owners of the guitar model have either warned me away or increased my desire. Sometimes I have made a very low bid to "mark" it. However, whatever bid I make, I am happy if the auction ends and I am the winner.
A few times, I have been asked if I am serious about the item. I have been honest in saying that I am not going to continue. I have also been honest and say that if someone outbids me, it is going to be expensive. Even posted a couple of times on the OFC that I NEED THIS!! And, I was prepared to get it!
Fun part was the two times when I had an email saying "You are going to lose." Lost one, won one.
Anyone wants to bid against me, fine. It is an auction. I may be naive but I haven't seen any problem on the OFC. As a couple have previously stated, I determine what the item is worth to me. That predetermined limit is the basis for my final bid.
The only screwy thing that I have done is to allow another OFC'er to get the guitar AFTER I was the winning bidder. I have actually contacted the seller, paid for the item, and requested that it be sent to the other person. Then I was paid by the recipient. In each case, the other bidder wanted it but was unable to make his final bid. Didn't affect the final bid. Made everyone happy.
Bottom line...someone wants to contact me to see if I plan to continue the bidding - fine...I'll tell them what I had already decided. If someone has information about the item or seller (good or bad), it is appreciated if that is shared (such as last week). I have freely shared any pictures or answers to my questions that the seller has provided. We can work together without collusion affecting seller and bidding process.
I remember questions posted about roundback as a seller. Frankly, I was proud to be able to say his disclosure and service has always been great. This is an example of how the OFC may have enhanced the seller's position. I have purchased a number of guitars based on comments of OFC'ers who have the model (FD-14, 1537, Adamas I & II, etc.).
Yet, in recent history, I was able to avoid shill bidding in an auction that would have cost me additional dollars if the auction continued.
eBay can be a snake pit...incorrect or abreviated disclosure, guitar models we have never played, etc. |
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Posts: 1817
Location: Minden, Nebraska | I am one who bids on a lot of auctions. I watch the ones that I just want to watch, and bid on the ones on which I want to bid. Like Stephen, I bid what I am willing to pay. Does that drive the price up? Only if someone wants it more than me and is willing to pay more.
I do, however, usually avoid bidding against a known OFC member if the reserve has been met or there is no reserve. Apologies to anyone whose bid I've trampled on.
Every once in a while I will get an ebay message telling me that I am making people mad by keeping them from buying Ovations. I simply recommend they look up my winning bid record, which easily reveals that I bid on a lot of Ovations but win few of them. The market does work to determine pricing, and I really doubt the bottom-feeders among us are driving up prices. |
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E-Bay Etiquette
