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Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | Originally posted by briwilt:
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news here, but this is the oldest scam on the Internet. Also, this is one of the reasons most seasoned eBay sellers refuse to take International bids.
My company has Ebay powerseller status with feedback approaching 30,000, so we could be called "seasoned" ebay sellers. We have no problem with international transactions and I'd guess "most" professional sellers would feel the same. Lets stop the scaremongering here and use a little common sense. You said it best yourself. If it seems too good to be true, it generally will be. |
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January 2006
Posts: 1132
Location: NW Washington State | Originally posted by Paul Templeman:
My company has Ebay powerseller status with feedback approaching 30,000, so we could be called "seasoned" ebay sellers. We have no problem with international transactions and I'd guess "most" professional sellers would feel the same. Lets stop the scaremongering here and use a little common sense. You said it best yourself. If it seems too good to be true, it generally will be. Paul, I don't think it's scaremongering. A key point in your experience is that you are a professional seller who has completed many transactions. Your organization has experience and leverage that the average seller doesn't. You can probably afford a few losses as a cost of doing business. The average guy selling a guitar or two a year might not take a loss so easily. As an individual eBayer with only a thousand or so transactions under my belt, I won't ship outside the land of Dubya, even to the land of Poodles.
-Steve W. |
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Joined:
June 2006
Posts: 29
Location: Port Angeles, WA | Originally posted by Paul Templeman:
Originally posted by briwilt:
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news here, but this is the oldest scam on the Internet. Also, this is one of the reasons most seasoned eBay sellers refuse to take International bids.
My company has Ebay powerseller status with feedback approaching 30,000, so we could be called "seasoned" ebay sellers. We have no problem with international transactions and I'd guess "most" professional sellers would feel the same. Lets stop the scaremongering here and use a little common sense. You said it best yourself. If it seems too good to be true, it generally will be.
I'm sure if you dig deep enough into the facts that you'll find these scammers are US based. They use the International thing as part of the con. |
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March 2006
Posts: 1634
Location: Chehalis, Washington | The wierd part is, I've already had someone try something similar on the relisted item - regular bid by a new (as of today) bidder from Denmark, no transaction history, no contact prior to bidding. Needless to say, I've already cancelled his bids.
This guy did pick up the money transfer in Paris, France, but has a "brother" with an Pennsylvania address, and an Indiana address on his cancelled ebay account, with a Seattle phone number that actually rings to him!
I think that the best tactic is not necessarily who, but how. I should have denied this guy when he first clicked the BIN option with zero feedback without contacting me first. If a buyer can't follow simple instructions... |
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April 2006
Posts: 1138
Location: CT | I feel sorry for you, that sucks. There are some scary things going on out there with people who have too much time on their hands, and are too lazy to get a real job. I'm sure it's fine for seasoned eBayers out there to sell to whomever the see fit. I only have 60 feedbacks, so state I won't sell outside the US (for fear I won't recognize one of the many new scams coming by). After I'd sold a Les Paul, I found out it was a buyer in Italy! I emailed him back and said no way. Not to worry he said, and sent a W.U. money transfer(not a check of any kind, but cash) and the Name, address and phone of a friend in MD I could ship the guitar to who would send it to Italy. I called the friend(guitar store owner), picked up the cash(no fees on this end), and sent the guitar. No problems. This happened several more times, but always thru a contact in the states. I think lots of these legit buyers will bid on 'US ONLY' sales if they have contacts in the states who will be a go-between for them, so ask, and if not, I would insist on the money transfer or no deal. No wait time to clear, it's cash in hand and it means they are serious. |
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May 2003
Posts: 425
Location: SE Michigan | Sorry that this happened to you Edensharvest.
What's really scary about Ebay these days is you can never be truely sure that you've been paid. I have read many web threads about money orders and cashiers checks that look good at first but then bounce weeks or months later. So my strategy has been to insist on using Paypal. Now I hear these stories that weeks or months later Paypal comes back and takes money away because of a dispute or a fraudulant transaction. Is any type of payment safe?
Ebay better get a handle on this shit or they are going to kill this market.
I also refuse and remove international bids, sorry Paul. But I do leave a loop hole open that if someone contacts me in advance and I have a chance to really check them out I will consider an international sale. But when people start playing games with wire transfers, sending extra money for an unrelated transaction, third party agents and crap like that I would run like hell.
But as I said, how can you even be sure these days that a U.S. Paypal payment is not going to bounce later? |
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February 2005
Posts: 11840
Location: closely held secret | Just caught up with this thread. EH, I'm really sorry you got taken by this.
I had one of these jerks grab the BIN on my 6778LX a month ago. All the lights and whistles went off when I received this email (sent AFTER he hit the BIN):
"Hello,
I am interested in immediate purchase of your item,but before i proceed on this transaction i will like to ask some question as follow. i can only raise cashier check for the paymentn of your item so i will like to know if the item is still available and also if is in good condition Please your answer on this, will enable me to issue your payment to you asap.
1. Do you accept a ( Cashier Check / Money Order ) as a mode of payment?
2. What is the firm price of the item?
3) Will you let our shipping company to come to your house for the pick up of the item?
4)Do get back to me with your contact info where you want the payment to address to.
5) Will you be able to send the excess fund back to the shipping company via western union money transfer same day you recieve the check....
Regards..."
I replied by stating I would accept a cashier's check for the amount of the purchase, and which shipping company was he planning on using?
All I got back was this:
"HELLO,
THANKS FOR YOUR MAIL,I WILL LIKE TO TELL YOU THAT I WILL BUY THIS YOUR ITEM AT BUY IT NOW PRICE,AND I WILL LIKE TO UES MY OWM SHIPPING COMPANY TO SHIP THIS ITEM,SO I WILL BE MAILING OUT THE PAYMENT FOR THE ITEM AND THE SHIPPING MONEY TOO OKAY,WHAY TOU ARE TO DO FOR ME IS THIS,ONCE YOU RECEIVED THE PAYMENT YOUR WILL CASH IT AT YOUR BANK AND TAKE OUT YOUR OWN MONEY FOR THE ITEM AND HELP ME WIRE THE EXSCSS FUND TO THE SHIPPING COMPANY THAT WILL COME FOR THE PICKUP OF THE ITEM OKAY.I BELIVE THAT YOU CAN DO THIS FOR ME IF YES,GET BACK TO ME WITH YOUR NAME,ADDERSS,PHONE NUMBER,SO THAT I CAN MAIL OUT THE PAYMENT ASAP.YOUR QUICK RESPONSE WILL BE HIGHLY APPRECIATED AS THE ITEM IS SERIOUSLY NEDEED,THANKS.
REGARDS..."
I checked the auction again, the account had been deactivated (by Ebay), and I reported what happened to the Ebay cops with copies of the emails.
This was Ebay's reply:
"The bids placed using this account occurred during an unauthorized account takeover. We took immediate action to stop the activity as soon as we discovered the situation. We are now in the process of restoring the account to its rightful owner."
I filed a dispute resolution and my reserve and final listing fees were refunded the same day.
If a buyer or seller wants to do ANYTHING outside of normal practice where money is concerned, it's probably a scam!!!! |
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May 2003
Posts: 4389
Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | Would keeping your paypal account and linked bank account at zero stop this "take back" from happening? I always thought it would. |
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September 2003
Posts: 9301
Location: south east Michigan | I would think that the bank would just put a negative amount to the account and come after you any way they could. You could ignore it all but the result would be a black mark on your financial history. No win there. |
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September 2004
Posts: 777
Location: East Wenatchee, WA | I don't think it had to do with Paypal. The point to the scam is these guys have a way of hi-jacking a legit users ebay profile. They then seek to pay using a cashiers check or money order for something OVER the purchase price. If you think about it...how many of you would trust any seller (ebay or otherwise) to send you back excess funds from your paycheck?
The counterfeits (yes folks, I am a banker and have seen these deals) are very convincing, usually created by scanning an actual instrument, altering it using appropriate software then printing out with great quality laser or inkjet printers. I have even seen micr ink used on them so that they clear the automated reader/sorters at the accepting bank.
The item is then run through the system, but it becomes a manual item once rejected by the drawee banks proof system. Then it takes time (sometimes days, sometimes weeks depending on where it was routed) to get it back to the depositing bank. That bank then will look to you to make good on the counterfeit item.
Sure...you have a zero balance account, but depending on the amount of the loss, the bank will pursue you with anything from a bad listing with the check verification companies to a full on lawsuit to recover.
It's an ugly mess and another reason to stay up with the latest scams and anytime something looks amiss....verify, verify, verify.
Oh...for those who think the bank is the bad guy because they want the money back, that is the same as thinking you are the bad guy because the crooks got into your pocket with the scam. Everyone likes to do business on the basis of honesty and good faith. Unfortunately, there are a bunch of uglies out there that take advantage of that. |
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January 2005
Posts: 4903
Location: Phoenix AZ | I got two phoney "Second Chance Offers" on Mike Cooks 1537 shallow bowl prototype. Reported them both to ebay. They were VERY professionally done. Dave |
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May 2003
Posts: 425
Location: SE Michigan | I don't think it had to do with Paypal I wasn't talking about this specific case, but I have recently seen a couple threads where a seller recieved a Paypal payment, shipped the item, then had Paypal retract the funds days or weeks later. This can happen if there is a credit card dispute by the buyer, or if you unknowingly do business with a hijacked account.
I think the best insurance is to only ship to a VERIFIED paypal address, require signature confirmation of delivery (rules out fedex), and only deal with people with long histories of good feedback.
Too bad the "uglies" are ruining it, I thought Ebay was one of the best ideas on the internet. But like I said, this is really an Ebay issue, because if people keep getting screwed using their service they will be out of business. |
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May 2003
Posts: 425
Location: SE Michigan | I also agree with what Jeff said, if somebody wants to send you more money than the auction requires, ding-ding-ding GAME OVER. It's a scam. |
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June 2004
Posts: 580
Location: NW NJ | Hey Brian, why do you say "rules out fedex"? I ship FedEx round all the time and get signature confirmation of delivery. Am I being ignorant about something? |
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January 2005
Posts: 4903
Location: Phoenix AZ | FedEx you (sender) can choose to require signature on delivery or not. Dave |
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May 2003
Posts: 425
Location: SE Michigan | I've been told by fedex that they will only obtain signatures from business addresses, not residential addresses. And I like shipping fedex, they always have the best rates.
I dunno, maybe I was talking to an uninformed counter clerk. |
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September 2003
Posts: 9301
Location: south east Michigan | I am resisting getting "verified" with ebay.
They want personal bank account numbers. I don't want them to have that information and the ability to debit that account. I'll carefully continue being un-verified. |
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July 2002
Posts: 1900
| Slip, I definitely agree with you, it's absurd to give ebay all your personal information when they can't guarrantee anything beyond all the 'small print' excuses they're going to cop-out with to debit your account into the red when someone scams them...and keeping a zero balance will only be used against you... so U.S. Postal Money Orders are the way to go...if the buyer wants the item bad enough they'll pay the price. I've used them along with certified mail/return receipt on high dollar items, no problem. |
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February 2005
Posts: 11840
Location: closely held secret | Too late, Brad. They asked me about you, and I told them everything. |
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February 2002
Posts: 1817
Location: Minden, Nebraska | I have shipped well over a hundred guitars internationally, sold on eBay, with no problems other than being one of the early ones caught by the Indonesian scam ten years ago. I think with some common sense and experience, it isn't hard to weed out the scams from the legitimate buyers. This particular transaction is in the pattern of what is now a well-known scam. |
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Joined:
March 2006
Posts: 1634
Location: Chehalis, Washington | This guy had a brand-new ebay account (bad karma #1) with no history, and the bank did take the check through the auto reader...no problems so far, but who knows?
The guy is still emailing me, and I'm waiting to hear back from the feds at this point. |
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Joined:
May 2003
Posts: 425
Location: SE Michigan | the guy is still emailing me I'd email him back and tell him you bought some lottery tickets with some of his extra money and won the jackpot. Then tell him you'll split the winnings with him but he has to show up in person to sign the forms. |
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April 2004
Posts: 13303
Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Brian, Fedex requires a signature when the item is insured above a certain amount and I have never sent out an item via "FedEx Home Delivery" where it did not require a signature.
I think the clerk you talked with was mistaken. |
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Joined:
January 2005
Posts: 4903
Location: Phoenix AZ | I have long ago "isolated" all my online stuff. I have a bank account and credit card at a totally different back than where I keep the witko fortune. Balance is < 500 bucks. All ebay, fedex direct bill, and paypal draws from this bank. I float about 1500 in paypal for impulse purchases. So far I have not been stung. Dave |
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Joined:
March 2006
Posts: 1634
Location: Chehalis, Washington | I just did...bank just verified that the check was no good - $2641 actual loss, unless the FBI actually ever gets back to me about filing a report on this mess. Now I feel like about the dumbest guy on earth - I got robbed by being stupid enough to send the money right to the crook. Does it get any stupider than that?
Better yet, my bank account is now in the red, my rent check hasn't cleared yet, I'm seeing wierd possible charges appearing on the unseen "posting" list, and I had to cancel my checks and bank cards, close the account (when it's back in the black), and my wonderful bank is COMPLETELY worthless! The 22 year old manager was nice, but completely clueless. I contacted the bank's fraud department, which is aptly named, because they don't (and apparently can't) do anything either!
These guys are either the spawn of hell, or geniuses. They play the system that keeps perpetuating itself, because the banks are too stupid to catch the glitch and FIX IT! |
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Need thoughts on ebay scam
