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Location: Utah | CanterburyStrings - 2012-10-15 6:25 PM
But as someone here already said, a lot of those online sales stem from someone trying a guitar in a brick and mortar store. Once they have played it and decide they like it, they often go online to find the lowest price.
Yup.
Tuesday Sara and I are taking 4 or 5 of our guitars into a local mom/pop store so one of the employees can try them out. They have a couple of Applause on display and once in while a Celeb shows up. This employee and two of the teachers (very accomplished university trained musicians) had a terrible attitude about Ovation until they heard and played Sara's Adamas U681 and her sister's 2078T. The one employee wants to buy a nice Ovation or maybe an Adamas, so we're going to give him an overview of the product line. A product line that this store in theory carries. A product line not on display in any area guitar store including GC.
Where's the factory rep or the regional product expert? Why don't they do a road show for the retailers like they did for consumers two summers ago? If even the sales people have never seen a real O or A, is it any wonder they never sold one? |
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Location: Blue Ridge Mountains | "FWIW, I was given a significant discount... not free guitars. I know others who had different deals. Personally, I was proud to be an Ovation artist... Very proud, and equally proud to answer questions about these truly unique instruments after every show. Still am."
I am a "former" proud endorser also: I use "former" in italic's because I still endorse Ovation/Adamas every time I play out, do a concert, or even play a special on Sunday AM...I never pass up the nearly constant chance to educate and recommend the guitars that I have used for 38 years to those who still come up and look at them in wonder and appreciation. I do it because of the quality in a product that has been my friend for so many years and the innovations that made them special and darn near bullet proof for a performing artist that needed a dependable instrument. Not to mention that they had great looks, great sound, incredible ability to stay in tune, and always sparked conversation and interest wherever I played...as far as getting reimbursed for the privilege to own and play these great guitars well, just having confidence and satisfaction in how my instruments sounded and played was payment enough. Yes, I was able to buy the instruments at a discount but I would have bought them anyway so it's a mute point. After I retired from the road, my endorsement of the guitars continued. I've always used different models and still enjoy the chance to share the history of these guitars and (esp. with the Adamas) also the construction. I developed pride and respect for a company that has never let me down in all these years. I have owned many new models and own many older models as well. However, it's these aforementioned qualities that I would hope Ovation/Fender can continue to capture and draw out of both the players and the hearers with whatever models they choose to make in the future. The alternative would be a world without what is in my opinion the ultimate plug and play instrument in history; and I'll continue to "endorse" them as song as I can play.
Edited by MusicMishka 2012-10-15 10:09 PM
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | CanterburyStrings - 2012-10-15 4:25 PM
But as someone here already said, a lot of those online sales stem from someone trying a guitar in a brick and mortar store. Once they have played it and decide they like it, they often go online to find the lowest price.
And there is also a lot to be said for "the look". I can always tell by "the look" when someone is going to buy a guitar. They play it and I can tell they are in love and won't be leaving without it. Some people WILL go online, but there are still a lot of people who want that particular guitar.
I hear folks here say that Ovations are more consistant than most brands, but they are still made of wood, and each piece of wood has a different sound. My 2077LX is a good example. I had two of them here in the shop at the same time. Both were great, but mine blew the other one away. And even the Adamas guitars vary. After I ordered my 1581 from Al, a friend asked me to get him one. We have consecutive serial numbers, yet there is quite a difference in tone. (Thanks, AL, for picking out the best sounding one to send to me.)
While I agree with you in principle, and it's certainly logical, I'm gonna bring up Carvin again.
I agree that many people, likely most, choose a guitar based on seeing/playing one in person, but won't go as far to say that it's in a brick and mortar store. I think the Ovation Gatherings and the Road Show sell more guitars. In fact... The Dealer who has hands down sold more Adamas guitars than any brick'n mortar store or other online store, doesn't have a store. So really, I think the model is in place.
Workshops, Roadshows and Gatherings, combined with a few high visibility endorsements and product placements, and they can sell as many as they want. The proof of concept for that is done. Does that align with their ultimate goals? Who knows.
If they got an order tomorrow for 10,000 Adamas guitars, would that even be a good thing? Where is the cutoff? How many is too many? How many is not enough? '
Predicting and building a market for production is an art form unto itself when you move from a few units to high demand. Finding that fine line of high production numbers balanced with delivery dates and maintaining quality standards. It's not for the timid.
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Location: Flahdaw | mileskb - 2012-10-16 4:37 AM
If they got an order tomorrow for 10,000 Adamas guitars, would that even be a good thing?
I think, if the custom shop suddenly, out of the blue, got an order for 10,000 Adamas guitars, it would NOT be a good thing. (Unless a projected 5 year delivery date is acceptable) |
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Location: Northwest Arkansas | darkbarguitar - 2012-10-16 6:03 AM
mileskb - 2012-10-16 4:37 AM
If they got an order tomorrow for 10,000 Adamas guitars, would that even be a good thing?
I think, if the custom shop suddenly, out of the blue, got an order for 10,000 Adamas guitars, it would NOT be a good thing. (Unless a projected 5 year delivery date is acceptable )
It took 4 months to get my Korean Custom Legend. I bought it at a brick and mortar store. I see the customers playing the deep contour more than anything. The memory card in the preamp is a great idea. Record your backup, put it on the card. Lot cheaper than an Idea too. The customer doesn't see many print ads either. I'll post when I think of something else. |
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Location: Hot Springs, S.D. | And one of the reasons the owner of a NON-brick and mortar store is the largest selling Ovation dealer in the country (besides the fact that he is a great guy) is that there are so few B&M stores carrying Ovations! This is probably not a popular thing to say (I got no comments the last time I said it), but I would LOVE to sell new Ovations at my shop but I can't afford the buy-in. If I could, I would be selling LOTS of them. I suppose lottle mom and pop stores like mine don't matter much to Fender so I doubt they would ever make Ovations more available to folks like me, but if they could get places like GC to actually CARRY USA Ovations, I think they could give the largest selling dealer a run for his money. I mean really, GC is B&M and I don't see online sales driving THEM out of business. Sure they sell online too, but they certainly sell an awful lot of guitars at their stores too.
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GC's probably not the best example, as they are currently facing both bankruptcy and a class-action lawsuit from their employees...
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Location: Boise, Idaho | Last I knew, GC owned Musician's Friend, so they cornered both markets. I also knew Bain Capital owned GC and going any further up that food chain would probably get political. I would love to see more Ovations in the small brick and mortar stores, but my favorite one didn't carry Ovations and closed and the one that carried Ovations didn't know the difference between an Applause and an Adamas.
There was an Ovation rep at our OFC gathering in Portland in 2006. He was the regional rep for the independents, but there was a national rep for GC. I don't know if that system is still in place. |
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Location: Tennessee | Don't take this as a shoutdown ... it's not just trying to put perspective on this whole discussion and hopefully provide a little food for thought. JohnW63 - 2012-10-15 5:31 PM However, there are a few that really don't shout innovation. I respectfully disagree. Innovation is not the same as invention. From the business dictionary: "Innovation: The process by which an idea or invention is translated into a good or service for which people will pay, or something that results from this process. To be called an innovation, an idea must be replicable at an economical cost and must satisfy a specific need. Innovation involves deliberate application of information, imagination, and initiative in deriving greater or different value from resources, and encompasses all processes by which new ideas are generated and converted into useful products. In business, innovation often results from the application of a scientific or technical idea in decreasing the gap between the needs or expectations of the customers and the performance of a company's products.
Read more: http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/innovation.html#ixzz29UI56PQG So with that, let me address your comments: Mid-depth bowl ? They made a deep and a shallow already so no great stretch there. This was a huge advance. Definitely meets the criteria to be called innovative. The vast majority of Ovations from the mid 90's onwards were made with the mid-depth bowl; especially those made offshore. It provided a significant comfort and playability advantage for most players while retaining almost all of the tome of the deep bowl. A pre-amp with a built in tuner. Ummm LOTS of people have had that. Ovation was the first with a mass produced on board tuner. Just because everyone else starts doing it, you can't take away from Ovation what a huge impact this had on the market. A pre-amp with a boost button ? Quicker than turning the knob a little, I guess. If you're playing out on stage, this is quite the boon. All you have to do is ask ANYONE who has a guitar equipped with it if it makes a difference. Yes, this was a great innovation. The new tear drop sound hole rather than the Elite pattern ? I thought McPherson did that first ? It may not have been the same exact shape, but that's sort of where they put the sound hole. No question this meets the definition of innovation. The 2080 was a very good seller for Ovation, so I think they nailed it. For fun, you should take a trip through the archives and read what a lot of the traditionalists had to say about the shape. It wasn't pretty, and yet it became very popular. I had a kid come up to me last night after I got done with my set who needed to tell me he thought my guitart with the tear drop soundhole was the coolest thing he's ever seen. Laser cut inlaid epaulets ? Innovation or just an improved manufacturing method ? Innovation. Used technology to be able to reduce the amount of wood stacked on the top of the soundboard, resulting in must improved top vibration and by extension, tone and volume. When did the EA series come out ? I see some as old as 1996. I will call the new ones, with the "f" holes innovative. 1994. Well within the 20 year timeframe you called out initially. And without a doubt an incredible innovation for acoustic players who have to play in a nigh volume stage situation. Glen Campbell and Paul Templeman are two players who will attest. Just an aside: if Yngwie's f-hole are innovative, why aren't the different soundhole designs on the other guitars? The LX series. Good changes. Are they still around ? Ummm no. Did they incorporate those changes into the current models ? Ummmm, yes. And yes, to some extent. If you want a new Ovation made in New Hartford, you will likely get the LX technology. More importantly, they learned a lot of new things as a result of the LX innivations that will find their way to other guitars. So, what we have left is: Combined piezo/microphonic pickup (hex-fx) ( OvationTribute lists that as "1990s" ) It's within your 20 year window, AND, whether it was commercially successful or not, it was truly innovative at the time and the fact that many other pickup manufacturers now have these types of electronics proves it. Advanced Neck System (LX series) Microsphere glass bowl (advanced Lyracord) ( Also LX Series ) Interchangeable preamps (OP series) ( Good. But did they sell it as such or did people just figure it out ? Some of the shapes changed, so that not quite "interchangable" through the whole OP series. ) It was designed to be interchangable, but with the broad range of guitars, you can't do that all the way across the line. But if you have a higher end Ovation, you can choose from multiple options for which preamp you choose to use at any point in time. And also remember that this innovation made it possible for the average consumer to replace any preamps that might go bad ... or easily upgrade should technology advance. SMT and CVT Adamas tops I guess the point I want everyone to take away is that Ovation has continued to innovate. The statement earlier in this thread "The problem with Ovation, as I see it, is that they were once big innovators, but have really don't nothing new in 20+ years." really bothers me and having it said here, on this forum, is particularly troubling. Totally disrespectful of the Engineering department at Ovation who have clearly innovated far more than ANY other guitar maker out there. So bringing this back on point and on topic from the original thread ... I can't wait to see what Darrin and the team has in store for us when they ramp production back up in New Hartford. It's gonna be really exciting ... well, for those of us who buy new guitars anyway. |
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Location: south east Michigan | Well
Said
Bobbo !!!
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That's the kind of perspective that can only come from someone with your kind of experience on this board.
Edited by Slipkid 2012-10-16 2:51 PM
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Bobbo and John.... You guys didn't even mention the VXT. While the concept has been around, Ovation actually made it work. Take a humbucker powered solid-body and with chambers, and set neck design, modeling and pickups create acoustic tone. And while the "acoustic tone" can be argued, by use of the blend control they created a guitar that has so much tonal range that unfortunately most people don't know what to do with it at first glance. There is even innovation within the elements such as making the blend control work in a way that doesn't effect volume as you pass between the humbucker, both and acoustic pickups. Of course the chambering also has a positive effect in the full humbucker position not only in tone, but by having a dual humbucker guitar that is fairly lightweight. Yes, others have had the concepts, Ovation made it work. |
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Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | I agree with Miles on the VXT, and will also add a note that the VXT benefits from the legendary workmanship of the Hamer technicians (at least mine certainly does). |
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Location: Pueblo West, CO | The issue at hand isn't really Ovation's technical prowess or innovation. It's how to market that ability in the 21st Century so that they can not only stay in business, but also prosper in the face of fierce competitiveness and loyalty to other brands, such as Martin, Gibson and Taylor. |
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Location: SoCal | Dan, I think you've nailed the biggest problem. Marketing and breaking thru the perception of Ovations as "those plastic guitars" is tough.
You're in Trabuco Canyon? We've got 2 more Friday nights at the Trabuco Oaks General Store before we shut down for winter. Come on out this Friday, 7-9. Email me, moody.pi@cox.net if you're interested. |
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Location: Pueblo West, CO | immoody - 2012-10-16 2:24 PM
Dan, I think you've nailed the biggest problem. Marketing and breaking thru the perception of Ovations as "those plastic guitars" is tough.
You're in Trabuco Canyon? We've got 2 more Friday nights at the Trabuco Oaks General Store before we shut down for winter. Come on out this Friday, 7-9. Email me, moody.pi@cox.net if you're interested.
One competitive advantage 'those plastic guitars' have over the Martins, Gibsons and Taylors is in the area of preserving the 'valuable' forests of exotic hardwoods used to produce the sides and backs of the wooden guitars.
Ovation was also an innovator in producing non-wood necks and using composites for the faces of guitars.
They could adopt a marketing campaign that shifts the marketing focus of this technical innovation to being a 'green' company that was ahead of their time.
Yes, I'm located in Trabuco Canyon (Portolla Hills, really), right above Cook's Corner. I will email you. It sounds like fun. |
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| The point that should be noted is that Martin and Taylor are still doing OK and are still actively making guitars in this country. Ovation is not. Those two builders have done something right that Ovation seems to lack. Therefore, it's up to Ovation to get themselves noticed, again. Change things up. Try to appeal to more players, some how.
In my mind,that means offering more than the other guys. You mentioned the pickup + mic system. That is a very popular 3rd party choice these days. Is Ovation offering that in anything currently ? Is it an option on any of their production guitars ? If not, why not ? The same goes for tops. I think they SHOULD give people choices of tone wood beyond Spruce and NOT have to wait for some limited edition guitar that's only made for 1 year, never to be seen again. Where I think Ovation has an advantage is they can make a striking , eye catching guitar with a lot LESS fancy wood than the others. It's only the top. No need for expensive rosewood or Koa or maple back and sides. From my perspective, that "Sweet T" that was listed on eBay, and posted about here, was one of those. A mix of new and old. I would be willing to pay more that THAT than the one just like it that was all matt black. So, why is it that the eye candy guitars are Celebrity and what ever CUSTOM guitar Patch has ordered this year ? ( That maple one is real eye candy ) Ovation can be fancy and bold for a lot LESS than the competition.
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Location: Flahdaw | JohnW63 - 2012-10-16 7:05 PM
The point that should be noted is that Martin and Taylor are still doing OK . Those two builders have done something right that Ovation seems to lack.
The only thing those 2 builders have done "right" is either have history behind them (Martin), or thrown a guitar in the hands of every celebrity they can (Taylor).
Neither have anything special in electronics. In fact, many people HATE Taylor's expression system, and Martin has a decent modeling preamp...but no big deal....certainly no better than Ovation.
Exotic woods? VERY expensive and nothing no one else doesn't also have (for less).
Taylor's electric guitars are big snoozers and aren't selling.
In fact, I don't KNOW this, but I doubt either company is "doing okay" in this economic environment we have right now. Taylor is owed a fortune by Guitar Center, and Martin has the same problem Ovation has....a lot of used guitars out there for less money than new. 75% of the Martin's sold new in MY Guitar Center here are are cheap Mexican models, and the same for Taylor. I wouldn't be surprised to hear some disappointing financial news from either, or both, companies.
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Location: Pueblo West, CO | JohnW63 - 2012-10-16 4:05 PM
The point that should be noted is that Martin and Taylor are still doing OK and are still actively making guitars in this country. Ovation is not. Those two builders have done something right that Ovation seems to lack. Therefore, it's up to Ovation to get themselves noticed, again. Change things up. Try to appeal to more players, some how...
IMO, the business (read: marketing) model used by Martin and Taylor wouldn't work for a company like Ovation. When Ovation guitars came on the scene, they had the same perception problem as they do now: plastic guitars don't sound or look as good as wood guitars.
When I got my first Ovation, the first thing my wife, who is not a guitar player, said when she saw it was that she liked the wood sides and backs on guitars and didn't like the plastic back on my Ovation. She hadn't even heard me play it and she was already prejudiced against it. She didn't realize that she'd been listening to Ovations almost her entire adult life when she listened to various pop music she enjoyed.
Unless the sale and manufacture of exotic hardwoods becomes illegal and Martin, Gibson and Taylor can no longer manufacture wood guitars, Ovation guitars will always be a niche guitar aimed at a smaller market segment of guitar players who prefer the Ovation sound over that of fully wooden guitars.
There are two main approaches to marketing a product. The first is technological innovation. The second is to market the personality behind the product. Actually, there is a third, and that's celebrity endorsements.
Ovation used a combination of these to market their guitars when they first came out. They sold their guitars on the basis of Charles Kaman's aeronautical background and his use of it to develop a technologically superior guitar. Apple Computers uses a combination, too. Steve Jobs being the brains behind the wizardry and quality of Apple products.
No Apple product is made in America because the cost would be prohibitive. Instead, Apple has overcome the perception of cheap Chinese manufacturing because their marketing department has made it clear that no matter where their products are made, Apple products will always maintain the high standard Steve Jobs established.
Unfortunately, Ovation has let the perception take hold that their overseas models are of an inferior quality than their domestically produced models. My personal experience is that their Chinese Celebrities are still superior to a Chinese Yamaha in the same price range and my Korean 2078TX is still a very nice guitar for the money when compared to the other guitars I've seen and played in GC.
Sponsors in NASCAR rely on the third model because they know that fan support of their favorite driver translates into sales dollars. That's why the driving suits and cars are plastered with sponsor stickers. The big three automakers relied for years on the motto, 'Win on Sunday, Sell on Monday' and they still do. That's why Toyota lobbied for years to get into NASCAR and why many open-wheel drivers are constantly trying to break into NASCAR as a driver --exposure translates into making more money.
Since the personality and technological innovation are not selling enough guitars, then only avenues left are to either change the perception of what is being sold or obtain enough celebrity endorsements from modern musicians so that Ovation can get their product back in front of the eyeballs of the music-listening public.
IMO, these days it doesn't matter to the buying public whether a celebrity buys the product they're using. They merely have to be using it and be willing to praise it. On this basis, Ovation would do well to follow Taylor's lead and start giving a guitar or two to every popular musician who has a large enough market segment. (read: CD, or iTunes sales)
I already mentioned the other way to change the perception of Ovations by emphasizing the green aspect that the non-wood construction is preserving the exotic wood forests being cut down to produce all-wood Martins, Gibsons and Taylors.
Edited by DanSavage 2012-10-16 6:58 PM
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| "Totally disrespectful of the Engineering department at Ovation who have clearly innovated far more than ANY other guitar maker out there."
Not true. How can you disrespect people you don't know of ? I don't know the FORD engineers either, but until they came out with a NEW engine that is making some headlines called the EcoBoost, I was thinking they hadn't done much either. All the engines listed in the Euro web sites beat the snot out of our versions. I haven't read any buzz about new Ovation tech advances. If they don't make "headlines" and reviews don't build up, how would the casual observer/player ever know ? If an innovation happens in a forest and no one TELLS you about it...... ?
Get the idea.
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | JohnW63 - 2012-10-16 6:06 PM
I haven't read any buzz about new Ovation tech advances. If they don't make "headlines" and reviews don't build up, how would the casual observer/player ever know ? If an innovation happens in a forest and no one TELLS you about it...... ?
Get the idea.
What do you want? (I'm confused)
What other guitar company has come-out with any "Headline" grabbing innovations?
There are Variax (and other) modeling guitars and such, but they are not headline grabbing.
There are other Composite guitars besides Adamas... But they aren't in GC either.
(I think that some of them have gone outta business)
What kind of innovations have you gotten from anyone else?
Martin started making High-Pressure-Laminate (cardboard) guitars in Mexico.
That's new...  |
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| What do I want ?
It's simple. Something that makes me go " Wow. That's cool ! " , or " Wow, that really raises the bar. " or even, " This will make people change their minds about Ovation guitars. " Because, that is what I think needs to happen. Let's be honest. The casual observer/player will not really care if their guitar has laser cut inserts, or an LX technology neck or pretty much any of the extensive list. All most people want are three things. Does it sound good, play good, and look good. I think you could also add, these days, " and sound good plugged in too. ". So innovative changes that don't directly effect those things don't have much wow factor.
When I first saw the Adamas line come out, those three wow statements fit to a tee. I had to call my friend and ask if they had seen the NEW Ovation line. I've wanted to try one ever since. That was over 30 years ago. Still waiting. That was some serious wow factor.
I know you and others keep pointing to the statement " Well no one ELSE has made any big innovations. " but I don't think any one else really NEEDS to. They already sell a lot more instruments than Ovation. You can find them hanging on many music shop walls. They don't have people thinking their guitars are "plastic" or that they have a "thin sound" or that they USED to be good. Ovation needs the wow to make up the negative terms that people use about them. They need to change minds. |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | One of the best threads in quite some time.
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| By the way, the dual pickup+mic was the "Optimax" , not the hex-fx. I think that's how the list spelled it out. I would really like to hear one of those. I doubt you could fit one of those in just any Ovation, based on where the mic was located.
Edit: I see it was only out on ONE guitar , a collectors model, and dropped. That's a shame because now various 3rd party people are making them. Tommy E makes good use of his, in his Maton. I don't think having it right under the bridge was the best spot. Modern ones put them near the sound hole.
Edited by JohnW63 2012-10-17 12:05 AM
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | This IS a very good thread. Not sure if it helps anyone, but it is interesting. One recurring theme seems to be marketing. It's been a theme for the life of this site. That's interesting enough unto itself.
The marketing of an Ovation guitar must walk a thin line. I wonder if placement is more important than endorsement. Josh Homme wasn't and endorsement, just a guitarist looking for a sound. But as a gas station owner once told me... "Ovation finally gets a guitar on the front of Guitar magazine, and it's one that hasn't been made in 20 years"
Not a fan of Apple but they have the mojo for marketing. Siri is a great example. You'd think when the last iPhone came out, Siri was some new technology.... it wasn't even new to iPhones. They never said it was new, but somehow the perception that it was prevailed. I wonder if Ovation could get away with the "green" factor as someone mentioned and have it come across as new. No fibbing, just make it seem like "green" is the reason to buy it. Just like Siri, it wasn't anything new, and in fact wasn't even the best, but it was marketed as "you need it." It's not deceitful, I just don't think Ovation has tooted their own horn for along time.
Back in the day, the product placement was there. You may not have been a Campbell fan, or even a musician, but if you watched TV you knew what an Ovation was and what it sounded like. I believe there is much much more use of guitars in music today just based on the sheer mass of music that's out there, but.... it's no longer really the focus instrument in videos and performance. It's also pretty hard to spot a headstock on a 3" wide youtube video.
Which.... brings me to good news. Apparently Fender got the memo. I refer you to the Foo Fighter Guitarist Telecaster video on YouTube. In the last two years the Foo Fighters have been everywhere it seems all at once. The guitar player is rarely featured in any way that you can see what he's playing. You certainly hear it. Fender took the lead with the YouTube video/interview to show us what he's playing. There are now over 30,000 Foo Fighter fans, musicians or not, that now know what a fender telecaster is and how it's used, that might not have before. And the video has only been up for a couple of weeks.
Yep... I think Ovation is in good hands... There I said it. |
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Location: Tennessee | It's a quixotic quest to try and get everyone to love Ovations. But go ahead and do what you can.
I wish you could have been around when the LX was introduced and there was massive media coverage, a lot of hoopla, and a major rollout across the entire dealer channel. Spend some times in the archive to get a sense of how energized the Ovation community was. You want WOW factor - it was there in spades.
With regards the list of innovations I posted, which of those were not brought out in support of making a better playing, better sounding instrument?
Last point ... where do you get your information that Taylor and Martin sell more guitars than Ovation? Just because there are lots hanging on the wall at a store doesn't mean they sell; in fact it only proves that it hasn't sold. I don't have anything other than anecdotal evidence, but I can tell you I play out fairly often. And while it's true that I see Taylors or Martins from time to time, but there is ALWAYS an Ovation or two there.
Oh, you want WOW factor? Come out and watch what happens when I take out one of my Ovations and play in front of a crowd ... whether it's my OFC1, OFC2, RFT, 07BCS, 1651JL3 or CL12. These guitars contain pretty much most of the list I posted earlier, along with many of the traditional Ovation features.
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New guitars from New Hartford?
